Zoom H4n with Canon 70D/GH3/G6 or Zoom Q3/Q4

[Michael68]

Dear all,
I wanted to make some simple video recordings with good quality audio sound. Have purchased the Zoom H4N and wanted to know the best camera to pair with the zoom. I have both Canon lenses, M43 lenses(Olympus and Panasonic including the Powerzoom 14-42). Due to limited time, I do not have time for editing and just wanted to record the audio directly into the camera.

I have tried pairing the H4N using Sescom cable with the Canon 70D and the results tested indoor was pleasing. However, I would need to buy a 70D with the STM lenses....

Alternatively, I was thinking of getting the GH3 to work with the Zoom H4N, as the external mic uses 3.5mm and the Sescom cable would be able to connect without adaptor.

The Panasonic G6 also has an external mic but I am unable to find any feedback on how the H4N pairs with the G6.

For Panasonic cameras, I have a Powerzoom 14-42 pancake lens from my GX1 which I hope to use with the Panny bodies.

Alternatively, I could consider the Zoom Q3 or Q4 but the sample videos from Youtube shows the picture quality is rather poor especially in low light considerations.

Many thanks for your kind advice as I am an amateur in video recording and my purpose is to take indoor videos of my kids playing their musical instruments, hence the need for good audio quality.

 

[kandinsky]

What kind of instruments? Are your kids all playing at the same time (e.g., like drums/guitar/vocals in a band?) or are you talking about individual performances (Kid 1 playing piano, then shoot Kid 2 playing guitar, etc)? Are you planning to move about or is it a 'leave it on the tripod and hit record' type of thing?

Do you currently own any video-equipped cameras with a mic input jack? Or when you mention 70D/G6/GH3, you are actually thinking of buying one of these?

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A dedicated camera + H4n setup will probably give you the best audio/video quality if you're willing to experiment with camera and mic placement. E.g., the ideal position for your H4n may not be the ideal position for framing your kids and their instruments (depending on whatever the setup is). So the H4n might be better off-camera, but you could still feed the audio directly into the camera with a longer cable to avoid having to sync it later.

The challenge I always had with a Zoom Q3HD when trying to record myself and two other friends jamming acoustically was that the ideal position for the mic to capture the guitars/cajon/vocals would always cause the framing for the video to be quite tight. If I framed all three of us in the video, then the mic would be too far and the audio would suffer. If you're going to be using it indoors, you should have sufficient control over lighting (make sure all the lights are on, add a floor lamp, etc), I think it's quite alright if used for individuals, or if you are dealing with amplified instruments, you can afford to be further back.

One workaround is to get a stick-on wide angle lens that's commonly used on smartphones these days:

when the camera frames the player and the instrument the mics are several feet away, leading to a wimpy sound dominated by the room. This clip demonstrates the use of a low cost aftermarket stick-on wide angle lens that allows the Q3HD to be placed closer to the subject, resulting in better audio.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVuuU-VeUO0

 

[ronniegogs]

Not sure what you want exactly. If you wanna shoot with multiple cameras or single camera. For any video you need to do some editing. If audio is recorded directly it eliminates syncing later but you still have to do a bit of editing. What mics are you using or just H4N built-in mics.

To record jamming session properly you need multiple mics. Like for the guitar amps, one for vocals, and one for drums. Mix them using a mixer send to H4n and send to camera.

 

[Michael68]

Thanks for the feedback. It would mainly be tripod recording on single instrument eg piano or guitar. I have already got the H4N and thinking of using it with either a Canon or Panasonic (unless I should sell off the H4N to get either the Q3 or Q4.
Hoping to know if someone has hooked up the H4N to the Panasonic GH3 or G6 without post processing and how it compares to Canon 70D, as I am considering these few options without getting an entirely new system altogether. Thanks again.

 

[Bamboopictures]

When audio quality is important, choose a camera with a headphone port. By listening to the audio input that the camera is actually recording, you can take corrective actions to eliminate distortion, echo, wind noises etc.
The Gh3 has both mic input and headphone output.
The G6 and Canon 70D have mic input but no headphone output.

Although the zoom H4N internal's recording sounds good, you might not get the same result once you record it on your camera after passing the audio through the zoom's headphone output. Noise and hiss will creep when you pass audio through two levels of preamping - once on the zoom and then on the camera. In fact, most DSLR shooters buy the zoom H4N because they don't want to use the audio that is recorded in-camera and not because the H4N is a good on-board microphone. Although truth be told, the H4N's capsule mics captures passable audio despite the preamp rather than because of the preamp.

So in short, the audio is good when you record it internally, but not when you send it to cam. The fact that the H4N was never designed to function as a micpre is evident from it's lack of a dedicated line-out port!

So back to the question of which camera for a simple recital. My pick would be a sony HDR-MV1.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1002002-REG/sony_hdr_mv1_music_camcorder.html
The low light will be better than the Zoom Q3 because of the backlit sensor and at under $400, it is great value.
The only concern I would have is that the MV1 is available in only NTSC for now, so using it in under 50Hz flourescent could result in banding or strobing. Future iterations may see a PAL version.

 

[daniyal]

Michael68>>> I usually set my Zoom H4N recording volume level to the lowest till it cannot detect a signal. Then, I will increase it bit by bit till it can detect the softest audio. Then, I will edit the audio in premiere pro. Just a simple edit. Just sharing how I use my Zoom H4N.

[video=youtube_share;lJYdjHbnrV0]http://youtu.be/lJYdjHbnrV0[/video]

 

[Michael68]

Thanks for all your replies. While I understand ideally post processing the audio separately would give the ideal sound quality in a video, how worse off would it be, if we were to feed the audio into the camera via external mic using Zoom H4N? Would the difference from your experience be very significant? Assuming all are in MOV format, I was wondering how much difference would it be comparing Canon 70D to Panasonic G6 or GH3? The reason for this is I hope to get the camera that would give good audio quality, comparable (although never on par) with separate audio post processing.

Thanks in advance!

 

[kandinsky]

Assuming all are in MOV format, I was wondering how much difference would it be comparing Canon 70D to Panasonic G6 or GH3?

My guess: Fairly similar as long as you can minimize/disable the AGC and send a strong enough input signal (-15dB). On the GH3, AGC can't be disabled, but when the audio level is set to 1, the AGC boost is +3dB. I imagine it will be slightly easier on the GH3 as you'll be able to monitor the audio while recording via the headphone out jack. You could do this with a splitter on the other two cams I think.

 

[Michael68]

Thanks for the tips and update. Since there is minimal difference in sound quality if I were to record it directly into the camera(Canon 70D/Panasonic G6 or GH3), it would make my choice much easier. Thanks!

 

[Bamboopictures]

Monitoring audio upstreaming is like shooting with a rangefinder. At best, it is just an approximation of what the camera is actually recording. Consider these situations:

H4N output sounds ok,
• but camera audio level is set too high or low
• cable going to camera is faulty or not even plugged into camera
• camera mic jack is faulty
• camera AGC is too aggressive
Monitoring the output of the H4N does not alert you these problems.
The only safe way to monitor audio is through the camera and aided by a visual indicator that shows you when the audio has peaked.
To this end, the GH3 is the best of the three cameras. The 70D likely can be patched with Magic Lantern firmware to allow audio monitoring via the AV output. But the G6 is an entirely closed system when audio monitoring is concerned, Neither its AV nor HDMI out allows for live audio output.