Why do you push & pull a film

[LimCB]

Hey guys,
was wondering if you all could answer my question about why you push and pull a film. What actually happens when you under or over-expose a film?
and how exactly would you do it?

I recently tried to push an ilford hp5 by 2 stops, but the reason why i did it was because i had no flash and so, i decided to "cheat". :embrass: i've yet to print the shots, so don't know how they'll turn out.
But is that the "correct" method of doing it? And what kind of films are suitable for these processes? All kinds or just specific kinds?

thanks so much yar!

Pull=overexpose delibrately and then underdevelop delibrately to skip the grain/contrast. Do that in good light.

Push=underexpose delibrately and then overdevelop delibrately to get the grain/contrast. Do that when you are in poor lighting conditions.
Many B/w films are suitable for pushing, but then certain developers aren't good for pushing.

 

[scanner]

Pull=overexpose delibrately and then underdevelop delibrately to skip the grain/contrast. Do that in good light.

Push=underexpose delibrately and then overdevelop delibrately to get the grain/contrast. Do that when you are in poor lighting conditions.
Many B/w films are suitable for pushing, but then certain developers aren't good for pushing.

To add on, certain professional grade color film can be pushed as well with end result to be quite good. Such film like FUJI NPH is a good example.
But then again, you don't push your luck to try pushing more than 1 stop, the result will not be that ideal.

 

[alvin]

Hi!
I made a mistake today, by shooting a roll of 120 Provia 400F at EI50. Yes, that's 3 stops overexposed! I checked the fuji specs, Provia 400F can only pull 1/2 stop. So I'm screwed, BUT I will be going to RGB color to try my luck anyway. I shot some good shots IMHO, really hope to salvage as much of it as I can.

My question is, is there a place that's good to try pulling 3 stops at?

Thanks!

Regards,
Alvin

 

[scanner]

Hi!
I made a mistake today, by shooting a roll of 120 Provia 400F at EI50. Yes, that's 3 stops overexposed! I checked the fuji specs, Provia 400F can only pull 1/2 stop. So I'm screwed, BUT I will be going to RGB color to try my luck anyway. I shot some good shots IMHO, really hope to salvage as much of it as I can.

My question is, is there a place that's good to try pulling 3 stops at?

Thanks!

Regards,
Alvin

You mean you rate your slide at ISO50? I'm afraid that your captured images will be all gone. Tolerance level for slide are generally narrow. There is no way you can salvage it from 3 stops overexposured.

 

[kahheng]

Hi!
I made a mistake today, by shooting a roll of 120 Provia 400F at EI50. Yes, that's 3 stops overexposed! I checked the fuji specs, Provia 400F can only pull 1/2 stop. So I'm screwed, BUT I will be going to RGB color to try my luck anyway. I shot some good shots IMHO, really hope to salvage as much of it as I can.

My question is, is there a place that's good to try pulling 3 stops at?

Thanks!

Regards,
Alvin

Try cross processing it if you don't mind the look. It should work ok, barely.

Just tell the lab you're using that you exposed it at ISO50. If they don't understand that, use another lab.

 

[Barret]

dude, i have expossed provia 400 at 1600 before with very very decent results! problem is only RGB does pushing now a days.

i have exposed provia 100 at 50 and it yeild really nice colours without the green cast.

but my all time fav film to push is press 800 expossed at 1600 or 3200 amazing colours and very fine grain anyday.

i wish they made 120 film for press 800, i would be buying it by the bucket.

i need speed!!!!

Hi!
I made a mistake today, by shooting a roll of 120 Provia 400F at EI50. Yes, that's 3 stops overexposed! I checked the fuji specs, Provia 400F can only pull 1/2 stop. So I'm screwed, BUT I will be going to RGB color to try my luck anyway. I shot some good shots IMHO, really hope to salvage as much of it as I can.

My question is, is there a place that's good to try pulling 3 stops at?

Thanks!

Regards,
Alvin

 

[alvin]

Hi guys!
Thanks for your helpful replies. I went to RGB Colour today, but they said they could only pull max of 1 stop. So in my case, its like dead. Heng only 1 roll outta 3 in this condition.

However, they said there is a place that *might* be able to help me, it's called Spectra Colour Lab, and directed me there. Talk about service! I guess for now, Konota and RGB will be the two shops I'll be visiting frequently, one for negs, one for slide.

Thanks again dudes! If Spectra is able to pull 3 stops, I will report back here.

Alvin

 

[scanner]

dude, i have expossed provia 400 at 1600 before with very very decent results! problem is only RGB does pushing now a days.

Interesting, that means you can accept the graininess of the pushed provia 400?
In addition, do bear in mind, you are pushing only 2 stops, Alvin had overexposed his shot by 3.

i have exposed provia 100 at 50 and it yeild really nice colours without the green cast.

but my all time fav film to push is press 800 expossed at 1600 or 3200 amazing colours and very fine grain anyday.

i wish they made 120 film for press 800, i would be buying it by the bucket.

i need speed!!!!

You are comparing negative to slide. Negative always have a much wider tolerance level as compared to slide. BTW, when you say fine grain, what kind of print size you referring to? Have you try blowing up the print to say at least 8R? What will be the result then?

No flaming or offence, just for informations to the audience out there.

 

[Barret]

i did a few exhibitions using pushed film, provia 400 rated 1600 and press 800 rated 1600,

Sizes were big
15 inches by 50 inches - xpan/cropped Med format
and
15 x 22 inches for my rangefinder stuff/35mm slr.

There was grain, but nothing i couldent accept. I prefer to think of it as capturing moments instead of bugging about the technical detials such as grain and sharpness. of course these are nice too

if you are keen, some of my works will be apperaring in via mar restraunt this october at the esplanade for the whole month. the smallest picture would be 10R or so and the biggest would be the 15x 50 inch ones.

alot were taken with the canon 1D mk1 (4 megapixles) and alot and alot of pushed film, even the large ones! on 35mm film! some on Xpan and some on MF but those are different categories.

I think it would be good to show how grain nor megapixles count in big prints, but instead how the picture makes the audience feel.

on a lighter note, if you know RGB well enough they would do anything for you. even pushing 3-4 stops, its only money!

 

[Barret]

here is an example,
Taken on provia 400 pushed to 1600.
XPAN - 1/10,f4.5
scanned from slide

Full image, printed 15x 50 inches.

100% crop of orginal

Is there grain? - Yeah of course, but not much even after 2 stops of pushing.
Is it sharp? - Not really, but it dosent bother me that much either.

My singapore flamenco exhibition will be at the esplanade's via mar restraunt from 1st to 30th Oct 04.

I havent printed anything yet, super headache! might not make the date line man. :cry:

 

[scanner]

here is an example,
Taken on provia 400 pushed to 1600.
XPAN - 1/10,f4.5
scanned from slide

Yeah, so you asked Helen from RGB to do it for you.
It will be interesting to see the quality of the prints as well as your work.
Anyway, content is more important.

My best wishes for your coming exhibition.

 

[Barret]

My best wishes for your coming exhibition.

Thanks!

I hope i can pull it off. :dunno: its in 1.5 weeks time and nothings done!

 

[alvin]

This is a very interesting look at pushing film. I have not yet pushed film deliberately, but find the grain at 1600 not acceptable. But for Barret's case, Provia 400 to 1600, I sure love the results!

Question for Barret, at 4.5/10, was your camera handheld/tripodded, with or w/o flash?

Also, apart from Provia, what slide film is good for pushing from 400 -> 1600? I usually shoot sensia 2, and am finally testing out "pro films" -> only last week shot Provia, first time in my life. Found it a tad cold though... dunno if it's me or what. I currently like the output from Velvia 50, but its kinda slow...

Plus I feel that sensia has more exposure latitude. I can keep my skies somewhat detailed with sensia, not velvia/provia.

Thanks!

Alvin

PS: I went to Spectra Colour lab yesterday, will be picking it up later today. Only managed to get it pulled 2 stops. I just pray some of my good shots are underexposed by 1 stop, so at least can salvage some shots!!!!

 

[alvin]

I got back my shots from Spectra Colour lab. They did a wonderful job saving my slides! Check it out!

Nope, I don't own a scanner ;p

Hope you guys that accidently over/under, can go there to save your slides. I know mine are

Regards,
Alvin

 

[Barret]

Question for Barret, at 4.5/10, was your camera handheld/tripodded, with or w/o flash?

Also, apart from Provia, what slide film is good for pushing from 400 -> 1600? I usually shoot sensia 2, and am finally testing out "pro films" -> only last week shot Provia, first time in my life. Found it a tad cold though... dunno if it's me or what. I currently like the output from Velvia 50, but its kinda slow...

It was taken handheld, without flash, the lighting was pretty good but dark, i can hand hold decently at 1/2s hahaha, for range finder la. on MF my mamiya's mirror will slam so hard that i wouldent dare hand holding anythning under 1/15 or 1/30 to play safe!

I like to push
provia 100 - 400
provia 400 - 1600
velvia 100 - 50
press 800 - 1600
ilford deltas pushable to anything, super contrast or super low contrast.
kodak 100 VS 100 - 50 or 200

From the looks of it yoyu are using 120 film right, which also means you will be using pro film from now on! welcome to the club!

press800 is my fav film
100vs is my fav slide
what about you?

 

[Barret]

I got back my shots from Spectra Colour lab. They did a wonderful job saving my slides! Check it out!

Regards,
Alvin

where is spectra? are they cheap? i hate pushing at RGB its a little expensive,
Good work on the slide! looking good really!

what cam is that? the bokeh on the pic below the old man looks like it came from an erm mamiya 6 or somthing

 

[alvin]

Barret: Half a second? Wow! That's amazing! I believe the lowest I took my rangefinder down was to 1/4s. It's a Minolta 7S. I assume your mamiya is a SLR? What kind of lens are you using that you can hand hold at 1/30 - 1/60? 40mm?

I am using a Bronica SQA with a 105mm lens, and I have made it a point to follow the general rule of 1/focal length as my shutter speed -> Hence all my shots were at 1/125 or faster. Still, I got one of my 12 shots slightly soft from handshake

For the Velvia 100 are you actually Pulling 1 stop to 50? Why?

Hmm film types? Current for me:

Neg: Currently NPS/NPC 160, Superia 400
Slide: Currently Velvia 50

I must say I only shoot negs at important events, when I must scrape a picture out For my own purposes I use slides. B&W has its own charm, but no $$$ for processing and index prints...

Spectra Colour Lab is located at:
101 Boon Keng Rd #04-01/05 - alight at Boon Keng MRT, about 5 mins walk. It's located in a flatted factory.

Ah the bokeh thing! As mentioned above I use a Bronica SQA. In hindsight I should have did more research. I only found out about the older Mamiya 6 (with the pull out lens) after I bought my sqa. I would have prefered using a rangefinder as its quiet and unobtrusive, and can handhold to low speeds. Which is why I got the SQA system - leaf shutters, like my Minolta 7S

BTW, is your mamiya's exposure system good with slide filim? My sqa came with a ae prism, and is totally horrid. Right now I'm using a combination of a panagor light meter in addition to fred parker's ultimate exposure computer to calculate my exposures.

Thanks!

Regards,
Alvin

 

[alvin]

Just wanna add, they charged me S$4.20 for the slide development and pulling two stops.

Alvin

 

[Barret]

Barret: Half a second? Wow! That's amazing! I believe the lowest I took my rangefinder down was to 1/4s. It's a Minolta 7S. I assume your mamiya is a SLR? What kind of lens are you using that you can hand hold at 1/30 - 1/60? 40mm?

Well like i mentioned the image was using the Hassy Xpan, which is a range finder, easy to hand hold. i can hand hold my mamiya with a 150mm lens at 1/30 sucessfully, the mirror snap not very jialat compared to the russians.

I think velvia 100 looks cool when pulled, no samples yet, but maybe soon soon. have to make it a point to scan then, much to lazy now a days.

I never shoot anything important! so no worries about using negs or slides, even if a picture is dead, i can still get it out with my scanner by increasing the power or through photoshop with some detial loss. I dont care much about the technicallities in a photo, if it looks good it looks good. end of story.

Yeah the mamiya has awesome AE prisms, probally only second to 35mm SLR cameras!I have been using it without any problems.

 

[Barret]

Just wanna add, they charged me S$4.20 for the slide development and pulling two stops.

Alvin

Thats DAMN CHEAP!!!!!! :what:

spectra here i come!