Why do u want a 5D over 20D/30D?

[Priscilia]

What is this peace of mind you speak of?
Your present lenses can be used on 20D/30D and future lenses too, whether they are EF or EF-S. I think the only issue is if you buy EF-S lenses and decide to change to FF body in the future, then your EF-S lenses won't be good for you (but there's nothing wrong with having 2 bodies ) hee-hee-haw-haw-haa-haa-hoo-hoo

Hee.. Wat I meant was with 5D, all EF lenses can be used but not EF-S. If I get a 30D, or 20D 2ndhand, I should be getting a 10-22 for those wide angle landscape shots. It's EF-S. The 17-55 is EF-S also and is worth considering. These lenses are doing pretty well now but as some say, FF DSLR prices will drop and by then, I'm not sure what the value of EF-S lenses will be. Of course, some also say, Buy now and shoot, worry later, can always sell off then even at a substantial loss.

 

[jeryltan]

You don't need the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM as you already have a EF 17-35L f/2.8, it's a duplicate range and image quality should be very similar.. FF DSLR price drop will not be significant, it will still be in the $4k+ range, which is still double the 30D, prices will never drop below $4k.. Canon will not market the next generation 5D as a competitor to the 30D, it will be killing their own product range.. So, EF-S mount lens will still retain their value more or less.. Of course the resale value will still be affected by the actual age of the lens, but not so much by external market forces..

Hee.. Wat I meant was with 5D, all EF lenses can be used but not EF-S. If I get a 30D, or 20D 2ndhand, I should be getting a 10-22 for those wide angle landscape shots. It's EF-S. The 17-55 is EF-S also and is worth considering. These lenses are doing pretty well now but as some say, FF DSLR prices will drop and by then, I'm not sure what the value of EF-S lenses will be. Of course, some also say, Buy now and shoot, worry later, can always sell off then even at a substantial loss.

 

[Kongo]

The drop in value of body is always more than lens, and the depreciation rate is quite scary.

If you bought a EOS20D 2yrs ago at around $3k, and a 17-85IS at around $1.1k and are selling them now, it's likely that you can only recover back 50% money invested in the body but the EFS lens may still fetch around 75% of the cost.

I think the body probably depreciate something like 20%+ a year, with hardly any limit of downside (I believe can drop to even a quarter of the original price given time..). On the other hand, the lens depreciate closer to 10% a yr, & the floor is something like 60-70% for a good working condition and popular lens.

 

[PepperDogs]

Hee.. Wat I meant was with 5D, all EF lenses can be used but not EF-S. If I get a 30D, or 20D 2ndhand, I should be getting a 10-22 for those wide angle landscape shots. It's EF-S. The 17-55 is EF-S also and is worth considering. These lenses are doing pretty well now but as some say, FF DSLR prices will drop and by then, I'm not sure what the value of EF-S lenses will be. Of course, some also say, Buy now and shoot, worry later, can always sell off then even at a substantial loss.

Hi, Was going through the same delimma, a few weeks ago... 5D FF vs 30D 1.6x

The way I see it is this... For what I will be paying for the 5D, I can buy the 30D, with extra cash, also buy a 24mm 1.4L.. and still have change to spare..

Yes I know... But... it's not a FF....

For me, I have learnt that glass is more important....

However, it's a matter of personal preference and probably more importantly how deep your pockets go..

Anyway.. Am looking to buy a 30D before end of the month... From one of the authorised Canon Dealers... Maybe this weekend... If you are keen ... Maybe can form a small MO and try and beat the price lower...

PM me if you are interested..

 

[+evenstar]

The drop in value of body is always more than lens, and the depreciation rate is quite scary.

If you bought a EOS20D 2yrs ago at around $3k, and a 17-85IS at around $1.1k and are selling them now, it's likely that you can only recover back 50% money invested in the body but the EFS lens may still fetch around 75% of the cost.

I think the body probably depreciate something like 20%+ a year, with hardly any limit of downside (I believe can drop to even a quarter of the original price given time..). On the other hand, the lens depreciate closer to 10% a yr, & the floor is something like 60-70% for a good working condition and popular lens.

worse than 50%...i got my 300D 3 years ago for $1.9k and now only selling for $600...:cry: :cry:

 

[Deadpoet]

The drop in value of body is always more than lens, and the depreciation rate is quite scary.

If you bought a EOS20D 2yrs ago at around $3k, and a 17-85IS at around $1.1k and are selling them now, it's likely that you can only recover back 50% money invested in the body but the EFS lens may still fetch around 75% of the cost.

I think the body probably depreciate something like 20%+ a year, with hardly any limit of downside (I believe can drop to even a quarter of the original price given time..). On the other hand, the lens depreciate closer to 10% a yr, & the floor is something like 60-70% for a good working condition and popular lens.

What a bunch of CROCK! Are we camera/photographic equipment trader or are we photographer?

We buy camera equipment to take pictures. We should buy what we need for the type of picutures we take, we should buy what we can afford, and then use the camn camera and lenses.

All too often, I see people here worrying about resell value of their camera and lens. If you are a trader, yes, these are legitimate concern, but please do not masquerade as a photographer here on CS or anywhere else!

 

[kiwi2]

You don't need the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM as you already have a EF 17-35L f/2.8, it's a duplicate range and image quality should be very similar.. FF DSLR price drop will not be significant, it will still be in the $4k+ range, which is still double the 30D, prices will never drop below $4k.. Canon will not market the next generation 5D as a competitor to the 30D, it will be killing their own product range.. So, EF-S mount lens will still retain their value more or less.. Of course the resale value will still be affected by the actual age of the lens, but not so much by external market forces..

My gut feeling is that it is not a farfetched idea for a FF DSLR to drop below 4k in the next 3-5 years. I remember it was in late 2000 where the D30 was at RRP $4999! Shops sold it at $4300-4500 or so 1/2 year after that. When I got it 2ndhand in mint condition from a good friend, it was barely a year later, and I was beamig away to buy it at $2700 since the D60 came out. Few amateurs own a DSLR back then. The D60 had more improvements over the D30. Listed price then was in the high 3k region if I'm not mistaken.

Cut long story short, look at the latest 30D. It's way much better than the D30 and we are only talking about 5 years or so in progression. But price has dropped tremendously by a few thosand $. So after 5D, I won't be surprised if FF cams will go for 3k+ real soon.

Somehow, I have this "feeling of similarity" between Canon's past film bodies and the later DSLR models: Eg, 50D 1.6x (film: EOS 50) and 3D FF(film: EOS 3). Maybe we can expect more fps, bigger viewfinder, quieter shutter, more focusing points, etc. Or Eye-control then?!

What then of EF-S lenses? They should still be in place. DSLR is going to get so affordable and commonplace we are perhaps seeing an analogy with the EOS500n or EOS100FN? Remember those film bodies? Light, compact and affordable. I think EF-S lenses will still be used on these beginner level DSLRs. Canon won't be too silly to plunge on R&D on EF-S lenses for nothing. There are already a couple of solid performers rivaling even the L lenses. There's even the 60mm macro.

That's the direction I'm foreseeing.

 

[Deadpoet]

That's the direction I'm foreseeing.

Everything you said was on the spot. There is one thing you did not say, but the conversation was definately pointing towards that direction.

It is probably correct to assume that every 3-5 years, we will see significant improvement int he camera offered by Canon. This will repeat itself over and over again. I sure hope it does.

Should we then wait and wait for the next best thing, it's only 3 years away? I personally will want to take picture today with the best equipment I can afford, and just keep on shooting. I don't worry about what Canon is going to introduce in 3-5 years time.

 

[kiwi2]

Yes, there is a tendency to compare equipment and talk and talk about equipment that all too often, we sometimes lose the real reason of why we own the equipment in the first place. That is, to really take good pictures.

I guess technology is progressing so quickly that sometimes, we worry too much about price depreciation and upgradability.

Well, to all CS members, especially Canon owners here, go out to shoot once you get past the stage of deciding what to buy! Photography is to be enjoyed. It is inevitalbe to sometimes worry or think about the bigger issues but don't let this worry take you off the path of REAL photography.

 

[mpenza]

Yes, there is a tendency to compare equipment and talk and talk about equipment that all too often, we sometimes lose the real reason of why we own the equipment in the first place. That is, to really take good pictures.

I see it from a different perspective.... a hobby is something that people want to enjoy and have fun with.... and to many, equipment talk is fun and an important part of the hobby! It's the same for other hobbies (e.g. cars, sports, even stamp collecting).

 

[jeryltan]

I agree with you, 3~5yrs definitely got chance for FF to drop below $4k.. But what I was referring to was the next 5D, maybe 4D :bsmilie: 4D I'm sure will not be below $4k.. But it will be very close, maybe $4,299 :bsmilie: 4D should be due for release mid~late next yr.. Then when 3D comes, it will probably go below $4k..

My gut feeling is that it is not a farfetched idea for a FF DSLR to drop below 4k in the next 3-5 years. I remember it was in late 2000 where the D30 was at RRP $4999! Shops sold it at $4300-4500 or so 1/2 year after that. When I got it 2ndhand in mint condition from a good friend, it was barely a year later, and I was beamig away to buy it at $2700 since the D60 came out. Few amateurs own a DSLR back then. The D60 had more improvements over the D30. Listed price then was in the high 3k region if I'm not mistaken.

Cut long story short, look at the latest 30D. It's way much better than the D30 and we are only talking about 5 years or so in progression. But price has dropped tremendously by a few thosand $. So after 5D, I won't be surprised if FF cams will go for 3k+ real soon.

Somehow, I have this "feeling of similarity" between Canon's past film bodies and the later DSLR models: Eg, 50D 1.6x (film: EOS 50) and 3D FF(film: EOS 3). Maybe we can expect more fps, bigger viewfinder, quieter shutter, more focusing points, etc. Or Eye-control then?!

What then of EF-S lenses? They should still be in place. DSLR is going to get so affordable and commonplace we are perhaps seeing an analogy with the EOS500n or EOS100FN? Remember those film bodies? Light, compact and affordable. I think EF-S lenses will still be used on these beginner level DSLRs. Canon won't be too silly to plunge on R&D on EF-S lenses for nothing. There are already a couple of solid performers rivaling even the L lenses. There's even the 60mm macro.

That's the direction I'm foreseeing.

 

[Celeste Shuen]

Should we then wait and wait for the next best thing, it's only 3 years away? I personally will want to take picture today with the best equipment I can afford, and just keep on shooting. I don't worry about what Canon is going to introduce in 3-5 years time.

Can't agree more with what you said. Prices of almost all consumer electronics (from PCs to mobile phones to DSLRs to MP3 players) depreciate the moment they reach our hands; and, what many of us find exasperating is the fact that better models are on the horizon. Market forces dictate manufacturers of these products to innovate. So from a consumer's perspective, I always make an effort to check my “needs” and “wants” as well as my cash-flow before committing money on a particular good.

.... a hobby is something that people want to enjoy and have fun with.... and to many, equipment talk is fun and an important part of the hobby! It's the same for other hobbies (e.g. cars, sports, even stamp collecting).

I also agree that equipment talk is fun and is an integral part of a hobby. However, I think such talks could possibly be done without actually acquiring that piece of equipment.

 

[kiwi2]

I see it from a different perspective.... a hobby is something that people want to enjoy and have fun with.... and to many, equipment talk is fun and an important part of the hobby! It's the same for other hobbies (e.g. cars, sports, even stamp collecting).

Yah, it can be fun to "equipment talk" but there's a danger that one gets overboard and lose the whole meaning of photography. I feel photography is a DO IT hobby/job/craft, a line has to be drawn somewhere. Similarly, take sports for eg. Over here, people are so into EPL, even those in my Dept, they give an almost commentator-like run-down of what happened the nite b4, who scored the goal, who should have done what, etc etc. But sports is also a DO IT thing. Unfortunately, there are many here who talk sports but don't play sports! And that I feel is partly to be blamed for the low standards in sports we have compared to international standards. We become talkers too easily and don't DO IT.

An expat colleague once overheard some of my other colleagues discuss enthusiatically soccer. She then asked "So where do u guys play soccer? How often?" When told None at all, she was so surprised. She thot wow, for that kind of talk, they must have been playing soccer very often.

I suppose the analogy above is like that of photography. I myself admit sometimes I run into the danger of talking and comparing equipment to the point when I worry too much. Should I sell this and that....Should I buy this and that. Once I get rid of these thoughts and just go out and enjoy the shoot, I find I breathe better and enjoy photography more.

I think it's nice to equipment talk sometimes but maybe we should also know where the limit is...

Ok... long-winded liao!

 

[Xing]

I agree with you, 3~5yrs definitely got chance for FF to drop below $4k.. But what I was referring to was the next 5D, maybe 4D :bsmilie: 4D I'm sure will not be below $4k.. But it will be very close, maybe $4,299 :bsmilie: 4D should be due for release mid~late next yr.. Then when 3D comes, it will probably go below $4k..

Dont think the prices of FF cameras will fall drastically.

An improved version of 5D (maybe 5fps, ISO 6400 etc) will ensure that price be maintained at the same price level (~RRP $4999).

Moreover unlike the 1.5x crop cameras, Canon's FF sensor has no competitor. 5D's launch was to satisfy the amateur-pro photographers' needs, which bascially it has nicely filled the gap.

Sooner or later, price wars have to stop cos it's not benefitting the manufacturers or even the consumers, cheap products = ~ lousy quality.

With the launch of 30D, I guess Canon has put their foot down in the mega-pixel race. I hope that we can see more and better features in future 1.6x crop cameras.

 

[Deadpoet]

I see it from a different perspective.... a hobby is something that people want to enjoy and have fun with.... and to many, equipment talk is fun and an important part of the hobby! It's the same for other hobbies (e.g. cars, sports, even stamp collecting).

Damn, I am agreeing with too many people here these days

I love to talk shop and talk equipemnt also. When there was a 1DsMk2 availabloe to a test shoot the other day, I was there also.

However, talking about equipment is fun, shooting is more fun, but making purchase decision based on resale value of the camera, not on the functionality and what it can deliver, is plain dumb.

Deferring purchase decision, assuming there is a need/want right now that can be satisfied/afforded, just becasue there will be a better camera on the horizon, is plain stupid. There will always be a better camera next year, and the price on the current model will drop next year. The key word here is next year. I can wait 10 or 15 of these next year, waiting for that FF camera with 32bit 96 MB sensor, but then what am I going to shoot with now?

I am sure there will be an upgrade to the 5D in the horizon. There may very be a strip down version of the FF, a 5D lite, in the horizon, but if I can afford a 5D now, and I am enjoying my 5D and the picture it can produce, why should I wait? No point to wait for the next version, because ther ewill be a version after next, and after next!

 

[Priscilia]

Coincidentally, I met an ex-colleague from another dept who is selling his 20D! Rather good condition. So I think I might just get it 2nd hand from him. So I'm inclined towards the 20D now. But will also get the 10-22. Have seen shots with this lens and it's good.

Thanks to everyone who have helped me with suggestions in one way or another!

 

[jeryltan]

:thumbsup: choice..

Coincidentally, I met an ex-colleague from another dept who is selling his 20D! Rather good condition. So I think I might just get it 2nd hand from him. So I'm inclined towards the 20D now. But will also get the 10-22. Have seen shots with this lens and it's good.

Thanks to everyone who have helped me with suggestions in one way or another!

 

[speedblade]

ex-colleague changing to 5D? Better keep in contact. the ex-colleague may let go the 5D 1 year later .... then .....

For me, 20D and 5D not "significantly" different for my use to justify the huge cost difference. I'll rather spend the hard earned dough on good lenses.

when FF drops to 2K, THEN i'll think about it.

Cheers!

 

[Maverickwong]

Good choice, especially when you get used at this point of time. 20D will still last you very long if you choose ur lens setup properly.

For ultra wide, tokina 12-24 f4 is a very good lens on 20D as well. You might want to compare it to canon 10-22 during purchase considering it's much cheaper.

Coincidentally, I met an ex-colleague from another dept who is selling his 20D! Rather good condition. So I think I might just get it 2nd hand from him. So I'm inclined towards the 20D now. But will also get the 10-22. Have seen shots with this lens and it's good.

Thanks to everyone who have helped me with suggestions in one way or another!

 

[panzerpunk]

when FF drops to 2K, THEN i'll think about it.

Wonder how long will that be :bsmilie: :bsmilie: