Why do people kept repeating "Its not the equipment but the man behind the cam"?

[Fragnatic]

Haa... Ya esp when people just came out of nowhere and put up that statement.

Yap, this thread is one-sided, but my point is, whats wrong with discussing equipment? So far I don't think anone had said they really need eg hi-end cam, lenses ect to take a particular pic.

It's a fact that certain cam with certain features HELPS (Canon's action beast-1dm3, Nikon's super dark iso 25600, Olympus E3 mulit-angled LCD live-view) in taking certain pics better and EASIER.

This doesn't applies just to photography but also cars, food, entertainment blah blah blah... You're a good driver, but you'll need a super fast car to win a race, You are a good cook, you'll need good ingredients to make superb cuisine, you love great movies, you'll need good quality hi res LCD/plasma + stereo system to fully utilise the potential of your stuff.


Back to photography, some people enjoy taking pics, some people enjoy discussing their toys while there are also people who enjoy both.

definitely. if u give an experienced photog and a newbie the same 'great' camera and ask them to shoot a certain event/subject... who will get better overall photos?

if u no skill/experience, no matter how gd the camera is, its almost pointless.
so skill/experience comes 1st, then the equipment will facilitate u.

 

[Sion]

mmm.... wonder what camera Edison uses.... anyone knows?

What lens?

Edison uses a 50mm F1.2 lens.

One lens shoots all for him.

 

[vince123123]

Both the equipment and the man matters. Those who say one matters and the other doesn't, really hasn't fully understood photography.

 

[Kit]

It's like that Ferrari Enzo that overtook you when you are driving a Toyota Vios.

Technically, that's possible but from the point of view of the law, its not. Enzo is not road legal here.

 

[satan_18349]

it's a fine balance between both, actually..

for example, if you have a pns with maximum aperture f/8 and maximum usable iso 100 due to image noise.. and maximum shutter speed 15 seconds..

you would probably never be able to capture any landscape after an hour after the sun goes down :dunno:

the trouble is, when you start getting obsessed with one item too much, they are not mutually exclusive and people often forget that. besides, i find it a bit offensive when say, photographer a posts up good images, and photographer b comes in and starts questioning nonstop about equipment, and then asks for price, ask where to buy it from.. firstly it is after all, off-topic espeically if the thread is a picture thread and not kopitiam - this should be in kopitam btw. secondly, it has the hint that photographer b thinks that photographer a can only get that shot because of his equipment.. when there are so many other things involved.

Obsessed i will not say, love your own equipment and esp your dream stuff (D3:heart is not wrong. I myself hopes to find out more of my own cam, esp happy when others are using the same, what others can do with it, what other cam's function can do, which lenses have the best boken, sharpness...

I also find it very offensive to the point irritating when people were talking/asking about which/what type of cam/lenses are suitable (boken, sharpness), which is better quality (L lens/Trinity etc), technical terms, prices and someone just barge in and post that statement of "wisdom" which is not what the TS or even other users were asking.

 

[satan_18349]

so skill/experience comes 1st, then the equipment will facilitate u.

I believe everyone knows that.

 

[Fragnatic]

I believe everyone knows that.

not too sure abt this pt.

well, some ppl do not have enuff skill/experience but they seemed quite concerned abt the equip they are using/going to buy and use.

that's y we have many users quoting that statement to tell them that one shd polish up his basics skills and gain more experience 1st and worry less abt their equip.

:dunno: that's what i feel.
but im not one of those who quote that statement thou i kinda agree to it :bsmilie:

when one has sufficient skill/exp in photography and realised that it is indeed their equip that is limiting them in some ways or another, then they might either try another mtd of shooting, etc to overcome the limitations, or upgrade and BBB :bsmilie:

 

[Caspere]

All the equipment wankers here will eventually grow up to be like... golfers!

When you hit a good one, everybody claps and say you are on a roll. And they don't care if you actually used the hook/handle of the umbrella.

When you hit a bad one, its always the old/non-customised head/grip. If everything is new and top-of-the line Tiger Wood gear, then its most probably a lousy/imitation ball! Of course weather, buggy and caddie usually gets the blame too.

Now that's grown up. :bsmilie:

 

[Big Kahuna]

Because it's the truth :thumbsup:

 

[night86mare]

Obsessed i will not say, love your own equipment and esp your dream stuff (D3:heart is not wrong. I myself hopes to find out more of my own cam, esp happy when others are using the same, what others can do with it, what other cam's function can do, which lenses have the best boken, sharpness...

I also find it very offensive to the point irritating when people were talking/asking about which/what type of cam/lenses are suitable (boken, sharpness), which is better quality (L lens/Trinity etc), technical terms, prices and someone just barge in and post that statement of "wisdom" which is not what the TS or even other users were asking.

frankly, whether one lens is sharper than another is fact, something that can be done scientifically, so i think most people who would argue that you don't just need equipment would generally accept that as an ok discussion. i know i would.

technical terms in photography are almost a must, else how does one discuss techniques? using drawings and showing which buttons to push to achieve settings?

personally i have not seen any overt use of the phrase/concept here in cs.. if anything the majority of people here are closet gearheads and covet better equipment.. quite representative of life.. if you could direct me to the above incident where such has happened so that the context could be derived and your grievances thereby addressed on a case-by-case basis? :dunno:

 

[night86mare]

I believe everyone knows that.

also, not sure if everyone agrees and i suppose this is quite a generalisation, but

1) people using expensive equipment either suck very badly or shoot very well, much more polarised than the group outside of this group

2) entry level equipment generally has more people, and therefore a much more evened out distirbution

which may lead to increasing sentiment about the topic.. it is not just about affordability actually.. a camera costs at most what, 10k? sorry if not up to date to pricing

whole arsenal of lens cost maybe 20k tops?

so add up still less than a kia picanto with coe.. compare this to the difference between kia picanto and mercedes, the point is further amplified when one looks at hdb versus condominium versus bungalow.. i don't think affordability is really an issue here

 

[Kit]

Because it's the truth :thumbsup:

and it always hurts.....

 

[kiwi2]

personally, i have begun to hate this phrase "not the equipment but the photographer". been to a couple of forums and seems like CS is the only one that this phrase gets repeated 1000 times.

Reasons i can tink of:

1. some singaporeans are too rich or hate to have so much money in pocket, so they buy lots more equipment than taking pictures.

2. They ask some repeating questions like which lens should I get the $550 85mm f/1.8 or the $2900 85mm f/1.2? Which gives better bokeh, 50mm f/1.4 or f/1.8? How come my $2000 DSLR shots can only produce mediocre results? It's lousy?

3. For people who like to claim a tiny point and shoot cam in the hands of a pro photographer can produce better pics than an amateur using high end DSLR.... To me, that makes sense, but the repeated nature of the phrase makes it sound silly and unnecessary.
Why compare a pro with an amateur? If I dunno how to play golf (in fact, I can't appreciate it at all) and you give me the best gold-plated golf clubs, surely I can't beat or come anywhere close to someone who is an expert at the game and uses a kid's clubs? That's common sense.

And some self-righteous ones will go on further to justify to an amateur that kit lenses are fantastic. They argue, IF YOU KNOW how to use it well, it can get you great shots, better than using other expensive lenses. Yup yup, it's the person behind the cam, not the... yadda yadda yadda.. you can fill in the blanks!

Duh... most of the time, these righteous people themselves dun use kit lenses. Why? Another unneeded statement. IF I KNOW anything, of course I will do it better than a rookie right?

IMHO, if any comparison is to be made, it should be apples vs apples, oranges vs oranges. It's not fair and quite silly to compare amatuer using expensive cams vs pro using compact cams.

Photography has gone 99% digital. Practically almost everyone owns a digital cam. Anyone can take pictures these days. Sometimes, being in photography is no longer about knowing how to take pics, but "I have the money I can buy whatever i want. So dun be jealous. I can use a D3 or 1Ds cam as a door stopper. Can you?"

 

[yqt]

It's a polite way to tell someone that he's a bad photographer :bsmilie::bsmilie:

 

[yqt]

It's a polite way to tell someone that he's a bad photographer :bsmilie::bsmilie:

Seriously, there's two sides of the coin to this.

It's true when we have yet to push our equiptment to it's max. A good example would be Eikin, take a look at his APAD. Even as far back as when he was using just a coolpix he was already shooting very impressive pictures.

It's not true when it is clearly the limitations of the equiptment which is preventing the photographer from getting the shot he wants, ie: birds with a 50mm, shooting F1 night race with a f.5.6 lens with poor noise control ( no flash allowed ), shooting bugs with a 12-24 and the most classic example will be .............. trying to get instant review on a film camera while shooting a PR event :bsmilie:

Get the picture?

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

my take is there are always a flip side to what you can and cannot do without equipment.

Without a camera, am I a photographer? I can take pictures in my head.

With a compact, does it affect the way I think and shoot, I should think so, why do ppl spend so much money on rangefinders? Cos its gives them/subjects a different mindset to do things, to see.

I think most people are offended when they see someone who has the ability to own expensive gear and not even know how to use it.

I admit different lenses help me frame and shoot differently. a 85mm f1.2 and 85mm f1.8 differs in signature. I can effortlessly create a diffuse background shooting while open with my 5D, much harder or rather impossible to recreate the shot with the f1.8 and a 20D. The pop (of the subject) is there, I know what I want, so do I do justice with it, I think so.

Honestly I come to a point its more important to understand your gear and to challenge yourself to with with each lens strength and shortcomings. I honestly think the mindset is the most important element. Without creatively, even a million dollar camera with rot in your hands. Without the right tools, the artist may not be able to fully stretch his/her imagination or vision.

 

[pictureperfect]

This topic is the exact same problem with every hobby that requires equipment.

Like they always say

"It's the cyclist, not the bike"
"It's the player, not the cue stick/table/balls"
"It's the player, not the tennis racket"
"It's the player, not the soccer boots"

=)

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

photography, you need tools to get the job done as well, proper tools for the correct jobs, so yes. Having the right equipment is as important, if not, its up to your mind, and mindset how to get things done with what you have.

 

[p7m13]

Maybe people buy expensive equipment because they like to hear, "OMG! Is that the super expensive $2,000/- L lens? Oh me gosh oh me gosh lemme see!" everytime they take their equipment out. It gives 'em a high, probably like those who change handphone every two months.

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

Maybe people buy expensive equipment because they like to hear, "OMG! Is that the super expensive $2,000/- L lens? Oh me gosh oh me gosh lemme see!" everytime they take their equipment out. It gives 'em a high, probably like those who change handphone every two months.

and a greater pleasure to walk away and ignore these people.