Why are the models always ladies?

[stingraytan]

I don't think that's fair to say how many of these photographers really go on the shoots to learn portraiture/studio shoots.

I've organised a few shoots and have observed the following so far:

1. The pros - they're there to update their existing portfolios and improve
2. The amateurs and newbies - they're there to learn the basics of portraiture and their gears and get some tips and tricks from the pros and experienced on how to do it well.

Hey, i find point 2 to be extremely valid to me.. I havnt join any photoshoots before and dont think i will be paying for one anytime soon... I have longed to take flattering pics for my love ones, (especially my girlfren and relatives on their wedding day) but have not been pleased with my end results..

So it will be really good to join a photo session where the experts can share tips etc on the different angles and composition that FLATTER and BRING OUT THE BEST of the model. I for one know that when my pic is being taken, i would want to look good. My gal is very beautiful and have been sporting enuff to be my model for many occasions.. Yet i feel that i dont do her justice.. i.e: she looks better in person.. So i find that the purpose of group photo sessions is extremely valuable.. Even if a model is pretty etc, there are ways/vision to bring out the best by lighting control, angle, mood, posing etc..

Some of the pics posted here have members commenting things like "she should smile more etc" while the photographer had explained she dont look good smiling.. these i find are valid points for newbies like me to take note.

I do agree that some photographers just take pics of beautiful women and dont do justice to the model by taking less then flattering pics.. But hey, i'm guilty myself and by posting and asking for constructive comments, i guess that's how newbies improve..

Cheers..

 

[koolkat]

Here's my own little distraction which I heard from a guy on CNA's Get Real program recently. Think the topic was "Are Singapore Girls Hard To Love" or s.t. like that. This guy commented, I quote, "if you are in an argument with a woman and she's wrong, LET HER WIN." Think this comment is extremely suitable for this thread. We (the so called "guilty" parties) should all take a leaf from this guy and at the same time, take leave from this thread. Adios.

 

[stingraytan]

Here's my own little distraction which I heard from a guy on CNA's Get Real program recently. Think the topic was "Are Singapore Girls Hard To Love" or s.t. like that. This guy commented, I quote, "if you are in an argument with a woman and she's wrong, LET HER WIN." Think this comment is extremely suitable for this thread. We (the so called "guilty" parties) should all take a leaf from this guy and at the same time, take leave from this thread. Adios.

dont think members of the fair sex wll take this down well...
but i guess that's your opinion and i do have to agree somewhat... :sweat:

 

[2100]

I guess this is the answer, plain and simple.

1000 photographers and 20 models.

http://juergenspecht.com/documentations/?number=15&overview=1

 

[KNIGHT ONG]

I guess this is the answer, plain and simple.

1000 photographers and 20 models.

http://juergenspecht.com/documentations/?number=15&overview=1

You hijack the thread from kopitham ... :bsmilie:

 

[koolkat]

Can't resist but come back to this thread for this one post (hopefully my last) :bsmilie:
Think Riva is going to be inflamed by this photoshoot:
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=106187

 

[Zplus]

I guess this is the answer, plain and simple.

1000 photographers and 20 models.

http://juergenspecht.com/documentations/?number=15&overview=1

Hahaha! Good one.... its Japan where photography is a major hobby. Its very much intertwined into their culture... Even the "V" sign came from the Japanese who saw it on the American GIs. If you have ever been to Japan, you will know that the people in the streets would gladly pose for you. Been there like 4 times... I love the place. Quite different from present day Spore. Maybe when there's more acceptance then paranoia, we'll be as gracious too.

 

[vagabond]

Oh my gosh!

*Sigh*

Adam, could you please close this thread? I don't see a point in leaving it open when most of the comments have become more personal than objective and constructive.

I posted the comments in the hope that something constructive could come out of it. It was never personal.

My point was on the lack of variety to the models in organised model shoots. And my second statement was a proposed possibility as to the reason for the mentioned lack of variety.

The posting was not about the skill level of the photogs who attend such shoots.

I was merely voicing an opinion. While I agree that perhaps the choice of words could have been different, the point remains the same.

I didn't realise how touchy this subject was and that it would open up such a huge can of worms.

While I may have a set of good lens and a good camera body, it does not automatically make me a pro or a good photog (although this is subjective as well). But I don't see how that would be relevant to my posting about the lack of variety. I don't have to be a chef or cook to comment on the items on a menu.

Thank you to those who are able to be objective and see the posting as it is and comment from both sides.

It is unfortunate that some harsh words were exchanged, and might still be going on, as a result of this post.

I am just a fellow photog, who happens to be female, trying to voice an observation from my point of view.

I think maybe coz u opened up something of a can of worms, & maybe it's ur use of words. Sometimes opinions are bound to be misunderstood. If everyone could see from everyone else's perspective, there'd be more peace.

Some ppl are bound to take things personally, or to follow up with some things they feel personally & get all excited. I think it's part of discussions.

 

[vagabond]

so what ur saying that is that i should think the way you do ?....and conform to your chain of thinking?.......

its not a slamming session....just a view that i have.......why bother trying to say whos way of thinking is the right....

im not even asking you to see things my way.....this is what i observe and other happen to think the same way.....

if you just want to let things be as they are ...thats up to you too .....im not even going to bother to change the way you think....

guilty or not ...is not for me to judge........let ur heart be the judge

This is just an observation. U may not consciously ask us to see things ur way, but u do sound like u are. Actually until now I still dun really understand if there's something particular that's troubling u abt this "trend". Are u trying to preach a moral stand, or are u trying to understand why there are people who take photos for such reasons, or are u trying to actually ask for shoots of other nature, or u just wanna bash these ppl u feel deserves bashing? I think it would help if we know clearly where u're coming from with all this.

The thing is u sound like u're going on an offensive & expect that ppl follow the 'code of photographer's honour' that u feel a true blue photog should be following. I'm sorry if I misinterpretted if it's not the case (I do feel that the replies from other ppl sometimes add oil to the flames), in which case pls do correct me.

My case in point: there are photogs out there, be it in CS or in Singapore, or even in the world, who shoot for different reasons. It is dangerous to assume that everyone is of the same mould. Before we jump to judge them (by our own standards no less), it is only fair to understand where they're coming from. Even if they're doing it for reasons of lust, what do u hope by hurling insults & stuff? Get other photogs to censure, ostracise, ban them? If that's the case, it may be easier to just suggest it & we all discuss.

 

[vagabond]

Hahaha! Good one.... its Japan where photography is a major hobby. Its very much intertwined into their culture... Even the "V" sign came from the Japanese who saw it on the American GIs. If you have ever been to Japan, you will know that the people in the streets would gladly pose for you. Been there like 4 times... I love the place. Quite different from present day Spore. Maybe when there's more acceptance then paranoia, we'll be as gracious too.

Yeah, I think it's an acceptance level or maybe confidence level thing. Down here, I guess ppl are more private I guess. If u point a camera at them, they'd think u're some stalker or PI trying to invade their privacy.

 

[reachme2003]

If one's equipment is an indication of how engrossed is she into photography, yes. If one's observation is done with a view of a photographer, yes. If one's comment is based on her own level of expertise, yes.

If one's statement is just a sweeping statement, no. If one's statement is just to instill embarressment, no. If one's cannot see with a view of a photographer, no.

For example, infront of a nude picture, what do you see? Pornography or art? Depending on the person's level of training and the person's state of mind when he or she view the nude picture.

Thus in personal view, if she is so engrossed into photography to be owning top end lenses and cameras, I am wanting to know where did her observation stamp from, in the view of a photographer or a view of a troll. "Some Skills", in personal view, a pre-qualification as it will show how her level of expertise can be crucial in the degree seriousness about her comment. If Julia Margaret Cameron (If she is still alive) said the same words as Riva had said, it will mean certain degree of seriousness on a falling standard of photographers and Singapore photography. If it is said by a photographer whose best pictures is that to the level of a 7 yr old holiday pictures, then the words she said should be taken with a a pinch of salt, or rather with sour grapes.

who is J M Cameron? if a 'photographer' hiding behind a nick made some observations like riva and he/she owned average photo equipment(no high end stuffs), would your response be any different? if different, what would be the rationale?

 

[kyeoh]

Wow! It is interesting, to say the least, to see this thread piling up.

Anyway, reasons for not getting women of other ethnicity (at least for me):
1. Hard to convince them to pose for a bunch of photogs, or hard to find one who will do so
2. Asking for too much money, or not affordable to most
3. Doesn't have a certain look or doesn't know to pose properly (yes, looks are important depending on the end result you want, please watch ANTM, all seasons)

Shoots of any kind, be it models or landscape or whatever, is always a good chance for photographers to:
1. Share techniques
2. Learn new things about gear from others
3. Network
4. Ask for help (newbies)

All these meets (depending on who turns up) also allow non-professional or non-fulltime photographers to meet up and know professional photographers or photojournalists. PJs tend to make friends with non-pro shooters - in future if they need help covering events, they'll know who to call and what not.

Can of worms or not, it has been a nice discussion.

 

[blurblock]

who is J M Cameron? if a 'photographer' hiding behind a nick made some observations like riva and he/she owned average photo equipment(no high end stuffs), would your response be any different? if different, what would be the rationale?

JM Cameron is a late female portrait photographer from the 19th century who is famous for her victorian styled portriats, most without smile and capture mood for most of her shots. The response will not be of any difference, I would still ask to look at her works before I decide the weight of her comment. If her works is of excellent quality which could capture soul so like Ms Cameron does, then I would take her words very seriously, especially on the part of "Smiling" .

The rationale? Well, there is the difference between comment passed by a person who has vast experience and a person who just comment for the sake of passing casual remarks.

 

[Venom81]

I guess this is the answer, plain and simple.

1000 photographers and 20 models.

http://juergenspecht.com/documentations/?number=15&overview=1

True and Good answer. :bsmilie: