why a700?


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I do not knOw if any of you realised. I suspect for A700 the AF points of 11 may not be really 11 as it is pretty fast. Went to Japan on March. Go to a kimono fashion show. I was taking pictures near a nikon D300 user. most nikon semi pro and onwards got a 51 AF Saw him keep moving around taking photos and peek at him when he preview pics and find that he had more out of focus than me using a A700. By right having more AF pts should give you more control on AF Speed & Accuracy but this is not the case.

This show the difference. Anyway sony & nikon use the same sensor so colours should not be that much different.

Sony also got one advantage. They had a very good battery lifespan. 2 Battery on my Vertical grip but whole day shoot only drain half the batteries.
 

what lens u using?
 

Bro Soken,

Read your post at the chinese forum about buying a700 in china and about your disappointment of a200 when you bought it intially, thinking that you were being cheated to buy it as supposed to your initial d60 purchase.

Actually, I was also pondering between D90 and 450D when I was shopping for a DSLR. After trying out at the SITEX show last year, I bought the A300 in the end for it's good liveview (better than both D90 and 450D), it's more solid build (compared to 450D) and affordable price (compared to both).

Same as you, I always told myself why I stupidly bought a Sony DSLR when I saw the results from ISO400 and above. It looks bad, which is like a little better than my Canon PNS camera...though I can't create a nice bokeh with my PNS...which is already a300 has something to cheer me on using it.

Buying some prime lenses like 50/1.4 and sigma30/1.4 made me stick to it for a while (about 6 mths) and I have used my a300 for 2 important events (my son's 2nd birthday and family trip to paris) that gave me a good 6000+ good quality photos...

When these 2 events were over, my mind then started to wander wild again, bringing back the urge to try out the other 2 brands for better ISO performance.

However many brothers here had advised me that my solution was to get a700. I didn't believe so in the beginning as thought how much improvement can Sony do on a body that is only 1 grade better than my a300.

Anyway, i finally took the plunge about 2 months back and got a 2nd hand a700 after selling off my a300. Initial tests show really better ISO performance (at least 1 stop better) and much faster and accurate AF. I even got myself a cz1680 to try out how good a700 really is.

After trying out for 2 weeks, I still couldn't get my mind off 500D and D90 as probably I think with greater anticipation, my threshold for quality was even higher. Luckily one of my business associates actually gave me a D90 as a gift on a sudden occasion and I was fortunate enough to test both a700 and D90 side by side.

As i mentioned earlier, D90 definitely has better ISO performance (about 1 stop) and you can see minimum noise at shadows and mid-tone areas as compared to Sony with quite obvious noise at darker areas but only when you view at 100%.

However, D90 do have quite noticeable noise at brighter areas at ISO1600 and above which A700 shows completely clean output on bright tone areas even at ISO3200.

So it's like each has it's own flaws of noise at different areas.

The killer feature that made me quickly sold off my D90 at minimum loss was it's AF, which is definitely not as inituitive as A700 and not as quick to react. As I think eye-start feature in Sony is actually working it's advantage over other competitors.

After also doing some shootouts with my friend's Canon 500D with his 24-70L lens, I am finally convinced that A700 is the camera for me, with good sharpness (even with a normal 18-250 lens with cheapo Tokina UV filter) that can beat 500D and good AF for 70-80% sharp pictures (as compared to D90 30-40% only) of my son.

With these results, I have since invested more in Sony with F58 flash, bought back another 50/1.4 lens and looking to increase my arsenal of gears with Alpha to prepare for more new bodies coming up...

:devil:

Pardon my long story though....:sweat:

wow, that's really a long story. thank you for sharing ur experience.:bsmilie:
Congrats finally u got a good camera. :devil:
 

I do not knOw if any of you realised. I suspect for A700 the AF points of 11 may not be really 11 as it is pretty fast. Went to Japan on March. Go to a kimono fashion show. I was taking pictures near a nikon D300 user. most nikon semi pro and onwards got a 51 AF Saw him keep moving around taking photos and peek at him when he preview pics and find that he had more out of focus than me using a A700. By right having more AF pts should give you more control on AF Speed & Accuracy but this is not the case.

This show the difference. Anyway sony & nikon use the same sensor so colours should not be that much different.

Sony also got one advantage. They had a very good battery lifespan. 2 Battery on my Vertical grip but whole day shoot only drain half the batteries.

a700 have quite a lot of advantages comparing to other semi pro cameras. but have anyone find these minor problems of a700:

1. WB sometimes not accurate

2. LCD too beautiful, create a fake effect, u may be disapointed when you download ur pics to computer.

3. Battery drain fast when the steadyshot is on. as review buy some site, when walking around with steadyshot on, the camera can take up to 350 pics only. if turn it off when walking around and truen it on when necessary, can go up to 650++.
 

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My replies below.

a700 have quite a lot of advantages comparing to other semi pro cameras. but have anyone find these minor problems of a700:

1. WB sometimes not accurate

Not an issue as this can be tweaked quite easily in PP or you can use Kelvin.

2. LCD too beautiful, create a fake effect, u may be disapointed when you download ur pics to computer.

OK for me. I find it better than the other brands which has a smaller LCD which is far worst. And I think most LCDs are the same. ie 'too beautiful' as you have mentioned.

3. Battery drain fast when the steadyshot is on. as review buy some site, when walking around with steadyshot on, the camera can take up to 350 pics only. if turn it off when walking around and truen it on when necessary, can go up to 650++.

Not a problem as I have 3 batteries and I always bring a fully charge battery along with the one in my cam.
 

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a700 have quite a lot of advantages comparing to other semi pro cameras. but have anyone find these minor problems of a700:

1. WB sometimes not accurate

2. LCD too beautiful, create a fake effect, u may be disapointed when you download ur pics to computer.

3. Battery drain fast when the steadyshot is on. as review buy some site, when walking around with steadyshot on, the camera can take up to 350 pics only. if turn it off when walking around and truen it on when necessary, can go up to 650++.

1. Stay with firmware v3

2. I agree but I only use LCD to judge the sharpness. Colours and exposure can be tweaked later. However, I seldom need to as the JPEG straight from the cam is already good to be used to post online. If printing, then maybe have to adjust a bit.

3. Use VG.
 

a700 have quite a lot of advantages comparing to other semi pro cameras. but have anyone find these minor problems of a700:

1. WB sometimes not accurate

2. LCD too beautiful, create a fake effect, u may be disapointed when you download ur pics to computer.

3. Battery drain fast when the steadyshot is on. as review buy some site, when walking around with steadyshot on, the camera can take up to 350 pics only. if turn it off when walking around and truen it on when necessary, can go up to 650++.

For #1 the workaround I always employ for my camera is to use the K-temp, usually I fix mine at 5000k, or at 3200k to work with cool or warm lighting.

For #2, actually this happens with the a900 as well as all Nikon cameras using the big 3 inch display... it's made by Sony too. The display cheats! :D well, the thing that I do with the camera is to check for focusing, and also to look at the histogram. :)

For #3, this didn't ring too true to me, because I can gun off 650+ shots with everything switched on over a period of 3 hours, and have 2/3 battery left - sometimes 400 shots - but review more, but over the same period of 3 hours, and still have 2/3 battery left.

This is very dependent on how you use your camera. Well perhaps the reviewer was too hooked to the 3 inch display, and spent time shooting 350 pics, and the rest of the time showing it off to people on the beautiful 3 inch display until the camera battery KOs... then going home to get disappointed... :bsmilie:
 

1. WB sometimes not accurate

Could be easily fixed in RAW. But on V4 firmware WB is almost 90% spot on with the CZ 24-70.

2. LCD too beautiful, create a fake effect, u may be disapointed when you download ur pics to computer.

Disable DRO since the screen is showing you the DRO processed image.

3. Battery drain fast when the steadyshot is on. as review buy some site, when walking around with steadyshot on, the camera can take up to 350 pics only. if turn it off when walking around and truen it on when necessary, can go up to 650++.

Last year S.I.N i managed to squeeze out almost 800 shots on 1 batt and still have enough left for me to review the shots on my way home.
 

I shoot almost exclusively JPEG, so auto WB is important. Find that for the A900, it's pretty good. The JPEGs have some room for post-processing also.

On the contrary, I find that the LCD does not represent the whole picture as well as viewing the image on the monitor. The colour and tonal range is much better on the monitor. The one thing I don't like about the 3" LCD screen is that it always looks sharp on when zoomed out but when zoomed into 9.4x it looks very blur. Then when you view it on your PC monitor, it is actually ok. Sometimes, this leads me to shoot many frames of the same thing just to ensure that the image is sharp (usually at max zoom range, low light, etc)... otherwise I love the large screen and detail.

Hmm... battery drain... debatable... I took 4 batteries (using vertical grip - carries 2 batteries) on a 18 day trip to Canada. I shot everyday and accumulated 1553 shots and deleting at least 100 shots. So I used the LCD screen extensively. Steadyshot on all the time. I have one SSM 70-300mm G lens. Overall worked out to 4 batteries over the 18 days. Pretty good return I would say.
 

Best high ISO settings for A700 & maybe A900 (jpeg) on d-preview and tried out by many forumers:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=29698285

ISO 3200 looks like ISO 400 on some occassions!~

Actually no... it really depends on the kind of light as well as the composition of your picture... I have shot some indoor shots at ISO400 that looked incredibly grainy... the trick is to overexpose but that gives very slow shutter speeds even at ISO800... in my experience over the last 18 days away in Canada, during the day with good lighting, shooting up to ISO1250 is fine, you can see some colour noise when zoomed in at 9.4x magnification on the LCD screen. Looks ok on my monitor screen (28") at 50%. Anything beyond ISO1250 is pretty hopeless in my opinion. I have been shooting mainly ISO400, which actually looks like ISO100 in good light... nothing new here, low ISO from 100 to 400 is perfectly clean. Except when you underexpose... I've been using DRO Advance Level 3 - this boosts the gain in shadow areas and also contributes to the noise in shadow areas significantly if the shot is underexposed by even 1/3 stop. The trick is to tune down the DRO to Level 1 where you keep noise down but bring out some detail in the shadows...

DRO is almost like a god-mode tool... you can get away with almost any difference in dynamic range between your light and shadow areas... I don't know what they do in the algo, but it's really magic. Nothing I can replicate in PS without pulling out all the noise...
 

By using the DRO u are in fact doing post processing on spot by enhancing the following which results in higher noise levels :
DRO increases saturation, contrast , highlights and shadowing on pics which if u try on photoshop will have the same effect. More digital noises.

The magic of having DRO is to save times on post processing. So far this will not affect any pictures in RAW or cRAW formats.
 

By using the DRO u are in fact doing post processing on spot by enhancing the following which results in higher noise levels :
DRO increases saturation, contrast , highlights and shadowing on pics which if u try on photoshop will have the same effect. More digital noises.

The magic of having DRO is to save times on post processing. So far this will not affect any pictures in RAW or cRAW formats.

DRO increases noise, yes but the level of increase is much less than possible in PS... I've tried it... and you need to spend a lot of time applying a very sophisticated curve which still does not replicate the dynamic range of the in-camera DRO application... it's almost like having HDR minus the strange shadows...:dunno:
 

A700 @ ISO3200 (My first time posting a shot @ ISO3200)

No PP, directly converted from RAW.

3681035470_e48d1725e2_b.jpg
 

Well, DRO works quite differently as compared to the Shadow/Highlight and the Fill light commands in PS and other imaging software, eventually you can spend one whole day getting a similar effect... and waste a lot of time in that process.

So if in doubt, shoot in Raw+Jpeg if you want DRO results, or use the Sony's IDC for your raw files.

Noise would be increased definitely in shadow regions especially after boost.

Though for highlight regions it's not of a problem, though at times I hope that there would be equal amounts of noise at highlight regions because it would resemble the properties of film more closely. :p

I weigh my possibilities in this case here... Right here, I'd probably shoot them in J with DRO, then run everything through an automated Photoshop script with Noiseware Professional - this way I think its more productive. Do remember that:

- Time is Money -

Also, noise may become an issue when you do large format viewing/printing. Your photo inspection distance is very important... like how far you are viewing your photos from, and how big you'd be printing (A1 or A0) viewed at newspaper reading distances - or printing 1.5m by 1m, viewing it close up.

If you remember well, Geoff Ang had shoot an ad for the Canon 5D MkII and hang that piece at bugis junction. It Looks huge from across the street?

Now, If you hold a Super 8R photo at about arms length... more or less - It's the same size. Is that photo looking sharp and nice, noise free at that distance? if Yes, project it onto the wall: that's the size you can get on that wall from your current viewing distance from across the street.

You can do that a sharp looking S8R shot, viewed from newspaper reading distance from a source file that is: 1200 x 800 (0.96 mpx).

If you think a photo looks sharp at 1200 x 800 on a 72 dpi screen, it's going to look similarly good on a 150-300 dpi print from that inspection same distance. Likewise, if projected onto a wall far away, it's going to still look good. Because ultimately - that is the biological resolution limit of our eyes, if you consider the optical capabilities of a person with 6/6 vision.

So if you are talking about more standard screen viewing sizes of 900 x 600 thereabouts, it's a measly 0.54 megapixels which is a far cry from the 10-14 megapixels you'd be getting regularly from people. is something helpful for copious amounts of cropping, like shoot a whole person but only want the head etc, and you shoot a lot of those photos and store them in the highest resolution just for that purpose, thinking for the future, i.e. using it for later... but one day, you come back and review your photos, and find that the photos sucked anyway, so ultimately you're wasting space... :sweat: Happens to me all the time... .oO("must shoot at raw... next time can use... then 6 months later... wah lau... the photos cmi sia...")

It's a big headache.:bsmilie:

Pixel peeping is well, fun at times, but ultimately pointless at the end of the day - because talking about it only helps to sell a somebody's camera and you're not making commissions or cash out of it. So at the end of the day, it's still pointless.

They are making cash, you are free marketer.

So well, at the end of the day, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Olympus, Panasonic... etc etc... ye don't have to worry about anything really - you don't even have to worry about noise if you aren't printing out large, you don't even have to worry about that even if you are printing out large once you can shoot and process properly. You can probably shoot happily at ISO3200 or even at 6400 on some of the supposedly noisiest cameras out there, as long as there is no sensor banding - unless you are creating the old-badly TV look. :p

so bro, dun worry, be happy and shoot ;p
 

Totally agree... most would agree that the high ISO noise from the 7D cannot make it... and I agree also... but I've printed A3+ and the picture looks perfect... no noise... the only problem is my skill and lens... the original image was not sharp enough... yeah but seriously you can't see noise if you print A4... I've been doing it for the last two years... I take pics of my students (portrait style) and print out on an Epson R1800 and frame it and give it to them as a farewell... in all honesty, the pictures are not that well taken technically... I usually get very dark shadows which I use PS to lighten (No DRO remember! Only got one flash) and that brings out noise plus details of course... but on printing, you don't see it... You can sharpen like siao and then when you print you find that it looks good compared to the halos you seen on the screen... most of us use very high resolution screens (I use a 28" full HD LCD monitor) and so you can see all the warts and imperfections and all but really print out your shots and you won't see them... unless you view it 0.5 inches from your noise... that's called looking for a bone in an egg...
 

A700 is a worthy investments for a APSC Camera as it is the one and only camera that is using cmos sensor and the only one having the highest iso and also good noise control in low light conditions as compared to the entry levels DSLR.
Plus it is a semi professional camera with colours that are near matchable to nikon D300 DSLR at a cheaper rate.

Yup, A700 is a doozy. Just look through the eyepiece. Night and day compared to A200. CMOS is nice . . V4 firmware is quite a revelation, but if you buy the Pentax O-ME53 eyecup (fits all Alphas BTW), it'll give you 1.2x viewing. Freakin A!
 

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Yup, A700 is a doozy. Just look throught the eyepiece. Night and day compared to A200. CMOS is nice . . V4 firmware is quite a revelation, but if you buy the Pentax O-ME53 eyecup (fits all Alphas BTW), it'll give you 1.2x viewing. Freakin A!

Is this Pentax eyecup a magnifier?
 

I'm currently using a A200, after looking at the new models (A230, A330 and A380) I decided that the only viable upgrade path is the A700 ... The new models are downright consumer... with firmware v5 the high ISO performance are much better than these new models. Wonder when the replacement for A700 will come out though... and at what $$$.
 

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