Who is qualified enough to give critic

[eikin]

Saying this image sucks is passing a comment. Saying that I do not like the light on the face is passing a comment. Saying this is lovely is passing a comment. These are not critiques.

Much of what was offered as "critiques" are mere comments. Comments have their role. And are useful too! I am not denigrating the usefulness of comments. But they are not critiques.

can i ask for your opinion on an issue? do you think comments should be removed from Critique Corner?

 

[The_Cheat]

actually critique is impossible if that is the case.

defined by his/her own rules and sense of aesthetic, the critic will never understand what the critique seeker wants from the critique seeker's point of view.

No one can trully remove their asthetics or beliefs when making a judgement. That's why it's rare to see good critiques. And personally, I have never considered "this" under or "that" over as a good critique/ comment.

This doesn't mean that the comment isn't helpful. All comments, even a short two or three word comment, can benefit someone (photograph or web-browser) somehow. Just because it doesn't comply the purpose that "A CRITIQUE IS NOT TO IMPOSE ONE'S (THE CRITIC'S OWN) ESTHETICS, BUT TO HELP THE OTHER ALONG HIS CHOSEN PATH", it isn't necessarily thrown out of the window.

 

[imaginary_number]

new rules are constantly created based on 'old' ones, whether they challenge, alter or add on to the old. an understanding of 'old' rules is the basis of making new ones. for that i see no problem with Tetrode's post.

If you look at a problem using the same paradigm, you might not always be able to solve it. Take for example, Artificial Intelligence - looking at problems using the functional approach (old rules) didn't perform tasks like financial analysis very well. Not until neural networks (new rules) came along, which is fundamentally different from the functional approach. So, new rules aren't always created based on 'old' ones nor does understanding these old rules always form the basis of making new ones.

 

[eikin]

No one can trully remove their asthetics or beliefs when making a judgement. That's why it's rare to see good critiques. And personally, I have never considered "this" under or "that" over as a good critique/ comment.

This doesn't mean that the comment isn't helpful. All comments, even a short two or three word comment, can benefit someone (photograph or web-browser) somehow. Just because it doesn't comply the purpose that "A CRITIQUE IS NOT TO IMPOSE ONE'S (THE CRITIC'S OWN) ESTHETICS, BUT TO HELP THE OTHER ALONG HIS CHOSEN PATH", it isn't necessarily thrown out of the window.

exactly. we can never tell whether an opinion, comment or a long critique will serve the purpose of helping the critique seeker. end of the day, if the critique seeker refuse to review his/her own work from other point of views, even if 99% of the members think the critique given was a good one, it will not serve to help.

for me, the responsibility lies on the critique seeker, not the critic. and so it's very very strange why people choose to quarrel over each other's comment.

 

[Stratix]

It is a shame that DP ....DeadPoet... should be dragged into this discussion.

Just as it is a shame that student is dragged into it also.

WHY :dunno:

Both are artists in their own right and have their own point of views.

You guys want DP to post his pics - sorta like saying to him - if you want to dish it out, you must be able to take it as well. While you guys have a valid point there, the flipside is that some of the people criticising DP can't take critiscism of their own work as well.

I am not condoning DP actions; far from it (it irritates me to read his rants as well) - he did seem to improve for a couple of weeks (and was tactful in his posts) but sadly he has reverted to his old ways recently.

LOL.

From what i could see (not that i have a sharp eye, i'm actually 1/2 blind :bsmilie: ), this guy needs some upbringing, not in his reasoning, but his tone of words.

Yeap, you could be a darn good critic, giving very extreme but valid reasons, but hey, just run a search with this guy and you know what which way i'm heading.

So what's with the messy hair, brown khaki shorts or harsh lightings? You could nitpick all the way, but those comments on "I'm debating if those shots sucks!" or "I'm wondering if it's an eye sore to see"?! Heck, if you have better pictures, please, no one is asking you to hit that submit reply button.

Honestly, every forum has their black sheeps, but really, this guy is way way way off.

While i appreciates his efforts to bring out the certain imperfections in pictures, his style of critic simply leaves a horrible aftertaste, which unfortunately, would linger and cause serious aftermath to the community as a whole.

I'm sorry if i'm direct, but really, it's an observation i've noticed. No hard feelings, and no, i'm not holding any personal agenda whilst typing this piece.

To end it off simply: the world is round. Be nice to people, they'll be nicer in return. =)

 

[eikin]

If you look at a problem using the same paradigm, you might not always be able to solve it. Take for example, Artificial Intelligence - looking at problems using the functional approach (old rules) didn't perform tasks like financial analysis very well. Not until neural networks (new rules) came along, which is fundamentally different from the functional approach. So, new rules aren't always created based on 'old' ones nor does understanding these old rules always form the basis of making new ones.

will like to know more. which rule is not created based on a preceding understanding?

 

[student]

actually critique is impossible if that is the case.

defined by his/her own rules and sense of aesthetic, the critic will never understand what the critique seeker wants from the critique seeker's point of view.

How can the critic understand if he never asked?

To DCA's credit, he did ask some questions. But the manner he did is is sure to elicit a negative response. It does not tale a genius to understand that.

And, asking questions is not "An excellent critique". At best, it is the starting point to a potential critique.

 

[student]

No one can trully remove their asthetics or beliefs when making a judgement. That's why it's rare to see good critiques. And personally, I have never considered "this" under or "that" over as a good critique/ comment.

This doesn't mean that the comment isn't helpful. All comments, even a short two or three word comment, can benefit someone (photograph or web-browser) somehow. Just because it doesn't comply the purpose that "A CRITIQUE IS NOT TO IMPOSE ONE'S (THE CRITIC'S OWN) ESTHETICS, BUT TO HELP THE OTHER ALONG HIS CHOSEN PATH", it isn't necessarily thrown out of the window.

I agree absolutely!

Comments are valuable. When one say of my image "I like it/i do not like it", it is valuable to me, because that comment showed the emotove response my image had provoked in that person.

However that comment have no other value to help me improve on that image. So it is not a critique, much as I appreciate the comments and effort to type that.

 

[eikin]

How can the critic understand if he never asked?

To DCA's credit, he did ask some questions. But the manner he did is is sure to elicit a negative response. It does not tale a genius to understand that.

And, asking questions is not "An excellent critique". At best, it is the starting point to a potential critique.

you call it the starting point, i call it the critique, difference in point of view, who is right?

the critique seeker is forced to put oneself in the place of the critic when one answers the critic's questions. the questions are the critique, and to me that formed an excellent critique.

 

[Wowee]

LOL.

From what i could see (not that i have a sharp eye, i'm actually 1/2 blind :bsmilie: ), this guy needs some upbringing, not in his reasoning, but his tone of words.

Yeap, you could be a darn good critic, giving very extreme but valid reasons, but hey, just run a search with this guy and you know what which way i'm heading.

So what's with the messy hair, brown khaki shorts or harsh lightings? You could nitpick all the way, but those comments on "I'm debating if those shots sucks!" or "I'm wondering if it's an eye sore to see"?! Heck, if you have better pictures, please, no one is asking you to hit that submit reply button.

Honestly, every forum has their black sheeps, but really, this guy is way way way off.

While i appreciates his efforts to bring out the certain imperfections in pictures, his style of critic simply leaves a horrible aftertaste, which unfortunately, would linger and cause serious aftermath to the community as a whole.

I'm sorry if i'm direct, but really, it's an observation i've noticed. No hard feelings, and no, i'm not holding any personal agenda whilst typing this piece.

To end it off simply: the world is round. Be nice to people, they'll be nicer in return. =)

I think DP has an eye for details and he definitely knows what he is saying... So I would take his words more seriuosly although he may slam quite hard... Ouch... :sweat:

I would not take anybody's comments personally even if it seem harsh... I would rather receive a harsh but true comment which would help me improve. Of course my personal attitude towards recieving critique must be positive... If not whatever critique given is useless...

My thoughts... :think:

 

[eikin]

I agree absolutely!

Comments are valuable. When one say of my image "I like it/i do not like it", it is valuable to me, because that comment showed the emotove response my image had provoked in that person.

However that comment have no other value to help me improve on that image. So it is not a critique, much as I appreciate the comments and effort to type that.

with that i believe you also agree that end of the day, it's the critique seeker who is responsible for his/her own works.

why do we need to put so much expectations on the critic/commentor/opinion holder?

 

[Chris Lim]

I think anyone can give an opinion. But to give a critique about a photo maybe a tad bit harder. Critique in my opinion comes in many different forms and areas, from technical details, to artistic point of views. The interpretation of a work is very much based on the judgement on the individual's ideas, mood, past experiences....etc. Thus i think a proper critique maybe one that follows a certain guideline without the influence of a thought or emotions?

I was taught to take in as much opinions, thrashing, comments critiques as possible on the images i shoot. So that one day when i look back at my then "shots worth keeping" and throw them away because i know i can do better. I'd know i've probably improved.

If we try and give other "critiques" or feedback and they are "in denial" and are not receptive. then maybe we should judt leave them alone and let them fend and improve for themselves the longer and harder way?

just my 2 cents worth.

 

[eikin]

I think anyone can give an opinion. But to give a critique about a photo maybe a tad bit harder. Critique in my opinion comes in many different forms and areas, from technical details, to artistic point of views. The interpretation of a work is very much based on the judgement on the individual's ideas, mood, past experiences....etc. Thus i think a proper critique maybe one that follows a certain guideline without the influence of a thought or emotions?

I was taught to take in as much opinions, thrashing, comments critiques as possible on the images i shoot. So that one day when i look back at my then "shots worth keeping" and throw them away because i know i can do better. I'd know i've probably improved.

If we try and give other "critiques" or feedback and they are "in denial" and are not receptive. then maybe we should judt leave them alone and let them fend and improve for themselves the longer and harder way?

just my 2 cents worth.

exactly. i've seen this happen in real life so many times, not just inside the realm of photography.

 

[student]

with that i believe you also agree that end of the day, it's the critique seeker who is responsible for his/her own works.

why do we need to put so much expectations on the critic/commentor/opinion holder?

Simple.

Because the critic wanted to be called a critic.

 

[student]

you call it the starting point, i call it the critique, difference in point of view, who is right?

the critique seeker is forced to put oneself in the place of the critic when one answers the critic's questions. the questions are the critique, and to me that formed an excellent critique.

Just type in "Giving a critique" in google and see what others say.

 

[Witness]

eh...went out after starting the poll, didnt notice it'd be so "hot"

though i have to agree with student that we cannot impose our views of art or aesthetics on others, i believe that in order for photography to "work", there has to be a certain amount of mass appeal in it.. it doesnt exactly mean if a photo should be technically correct or wrong, but the target audience should like it at the very least...

thus, as critics, perhaps one thing we could do is to give it from a "mass public perspective" in order to help. another thing would be in our "politeness" strategies when doing so..

juz my opinion

cheerios

 

[imaginary_number]

will like to know more. which rule is not created based on a preceding understanding?

The whole concept is fundamentally different. Functional approach starts with pre-defined rules, neural networks learn from a large quantity of data.

You can read more if you're interested : http://www.shef.ac.uk/psychology/gurney/notes/contents.html

 

[Chris Lim]

eh...went out after starting the poll, didnt notice it'd be so "hot"

though i have to agree with student that we cannot impose our views of art or aesthetics on others, i believe that in order for photography to "work", there has to be a certain amount of mass appeal in it.. it doesnt exactly mean if a photo should be technically correct or wrong, but the target audience should like it at the very least...

thus, as critics, perhaps one thing we could do is to give it from a "mass public perspective" in order to help. another thing would be in our "politeness" strategies when doing so..

juz my opinion

cheerios

I agree. But also bearing in mind that the "targetted audience" is never a single entity thus on a public domain you will still get any kinda comments and feedback from everyone everywhere. The mass appeal thing is very true. Like some things appeal more then others and will tend to sit better with the way people use their words to comment on an image.

 

[eikin]

thus, as critics, perhaps one thing we could do is to give it from a "mass public perspective" in order to help. another thing would be in our "politeness" strategies when doing so..

i think this is trying to sound so politically correct.

what i am more interested in is whether critique seekers are truly keen in seeking opinions/comments/critiques.

for me opinions/comments/critiques come in all shapes and sizes, and they ought to.

 

[eikin]

The whole concept is fundamentally different. Functional approach starts with pre-defined rules, neural networks learn from a large quantity of data.

You can read more if you're interested : http://www.shef.ac.uk/psychology/gurney/notes/contents.html

and what's the opposite of the Functional approach?

a person's being is defined by his/her desires, self and society. what new things can he/she create that is not based on what he/she already knows?