Which IR filter ~ R72, ELP, Hoya 25A? [limwhow]

[limwhow]

A Brief Comparison and Sampling of 3 IR Filters - R72, ELP and Hoya 25A.
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Recently a few ClubSNAP members have been PM-ing and asking about the differences between the various commonly used IR filters. I can certainly understand that, because for many who are starting out, the differences between these are a little more than bewildering. I am sure this comparison information is available both in ClubSNAP as well as throughout the internet. But in all honesty, in my search for information, I have not come across too many direct comparisons.

Recently our good moderator Francis247 has done a comparative study between the R72 and the Goldie filter. This gave me the impetus to do a little sampling here of a similar nature.
I was fortunate to be loaned a modified Canon 350D with a Hoya 25A IR filter recently.

Before I show the photos, here is the technical information of my set ups:

• Canon 20D permanently modified with a Hoya R72 filter (100% cut off at 680nm, 50% cut off at 720nm). http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/infrared/#FILTERS
  with Tokina 10-17mm Fish Eye lens.
  
• Canon 20D permanently modified with an ELP filter (Edmund Long Pass. 100% cut off at 650nm, 50% cut off at 680nm). http://www.taraimobiliare.ro/spectral/x700longpass.jpg
  with Canon EF-S 10-22mm lens.
  
• Canon 350D permanently modified with a Hoya 25A filter (100% cut off at 580nm, 50% cut off at 600nm). http://www.wrotniak.net/photo/infrared/#FILTERS
  with Canon EF-S 18-55mm lens.

I would slowly exhibit a series of IR photos taken with these three modified cameras.
Allow me the luxury of several days as I post process my photos and present them in as objective and as controlled a manner as I possibly can.
It is hoped that with these direct visualisations, our good fellow CSers who are embarking on IR photography would be able to make a better decision on their choices of IR filters.

I must humbly state that I am new to the art of IR photography and I cannot claim to know too much. Thus I would be happy if any one finds any errors that have inadvertently crept into my report and correct me. Also if any one has more information that you think would be of benefits to our new members who are starting out in IR photography, I would be also grateful to have your input.

tags: Difference Compare IR Filter R72 ELP Hoya 25A

 

[limwhow]

Palm trees

A revisit of Tanjong Rhu today. It was a bright, sunny morning. Beautiful and ideal condition for IR.

Hoya R72

EXIF: Focal length 17mm f/6.3 1/400 sec ISO 200
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and Red and Magenta to a little greenish.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

ELP

EXIF: Focal length 17mm f/6.3 1/500 sec ISO 200
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and Red and Magenta to a little greenish.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

Hoya 25A

EXIF: Focal length 18mm f/6.3 1/400 sec ISO 200
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and Red and Magenta to a little golden.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

 

[limwhow]

Landscape with Buildings: Indoor Stadium


Hoya R72

EXIF: Focal length 17mm f/8.0 1/1250 sec ISO 200
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and Red and Magenta to a little greenish hue too.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

ELP

EXIF: Focal length 16mm f/8.0 1/800 sec ISO 200
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation, and Magenta to a little pinkish.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and Red and Magenta to a deeper pink.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

Hoya 25A

EXIF: Focal length 18mm f/8.0 1/1250 sec ISO 400
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation, and Magenta to a deep red.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and maintaining the Red and Magenta at deep red.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

 

[limwhow]

The Sky


Hoya R72

EXIF: Focal length 17mm f/8.0 1/2000 sec ISO 200
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and Red and Magenta to a little reddish-pink.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

ELP

EXIF: Focal length 17mm f/8.0 1/1000 sec ISO 200
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation, and Magenta to a slight pink.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and Red and Magenta to a deeper pink.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

Hoya 25A

EXIF: Focal length 18mm f/8.0 1/2000 sec ISO 400
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation, and Magenta to a orangey-red.
4. Further tuning of sky's Blue to a little greenish hue, and tuning the Red and Magenta to a Golden yellow with tint of pink.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

 

[limwhow]

The Colour of Water


Hoya R72

Lens used 70-300mm
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation.
4. Further tuning of water's Blue to a little greenish hue, and desaturated Red and Magenta a little. Did masking to give a slightly normal skin tone.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

ELP


Lens used 70-300mm
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation, and Magenta to a deeper pink.
4. Further tuning of water's Blue to a little greenish hue, and Red and Magenta to a slight pink. Did masking of the skin to give a little bit of normal tone.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

Hoya 25A


Lens used 70-300mm
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping
3. After channel swapping and enhancement of Red, Blue and Cyan in Hue & Saturation, and Magenta to a orangey tint.
4. Further tuning of water's Blue to a little greenish hue, and tuning the Red and Magenta to a Golden yellow. Did masking to give a little bit of normal skin tone.
5. Desaturation to Black and White and increase Contrast to 40%.

 

[limwhow]

Portrait

The thing about portraiture with IR cameras is, invariably, one needs to do some masking and PP of the subject to bring out a more natural skin tone.
In this series here, please forgive me for committing lots of taboos in portraiture photography:
joints cut off here and there, leaving too much head room, less-than-ideal posing and expressions and so on and so forth... I was merely concentrating on the IR aspects.
Certainly I will strive to do better in the future.

Hoya R72

My limited experience with R72 have found that the end-product may be simply straight out from the camera with just some masking and hue & saturation done,
or in some cases, one may opt to do a channel swap before doing the masking and hue & saturation.
It's very subjective.

Lens used: 24-70mm f/2.8L
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping. At this stage most would be taken aback by the ghost-like appearance of the blue lips and blue skin tone.
3. After channel swapping, masking done to adjust Blue and Magenta of the skin tone. Also, the white of the eyes desaturated and lightened and brightened.
   The Blue of the background desaturated slightly.
4. Magenta of the hair colour enhanced. Red of the lip colour enhanced too.

ELP

In this series, I employed a Speedlite flash. Thus it is obvious that there is a slight difference in skin tone as compared with the R72 series.
I noticed the prominent veins on the subject's right forearm. But as this thread is meant to be a fully demonstrative one, I have decided to leave the veins as they are to show that IR photography really brings out superficial veins on the skin.


Lens used: 24-70mm f/2.8L
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping - Yikes, the Ghostly appearance again!
3. After channel swapping and masking of the skin to adjust the Blue and Magenta to approximate that of as natural a skin tone as possible.
4. Again, further masking done to brighten and whiten the teeth and white of the eyes, as well as to enhance the Magenta tint of the hair to give it a reddish-pinkish hue.
   In addition, the Red of the lips were enhanced, to give the appearance of lip stick applied.

Hoya 25A

Lens used: 24-70mm f/2.8L
Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera.
2. With channel swapping. Classic 'Avatar' look!
3. After channel swapping and adjustment of Blue and Magenta in Hue and Saturation to achieve a slightly more natural skin tone, and adding a layer of Colour Balance to enhance that.
   In addition, the Blue of the background tuned to green.
4. Further whitening of the white of the eyes, injected a reddish hue to the hair and adjustment of Hue & Saturation to give the lips a red lip-stick applied look.

 

[limwhow]

Flowers

The issue with Flowers in IR is, they always turn out white (or pale golden yellow), exactly like the leaves surrounding them.
Thus no matter how colourful they are, the end result is always a vastly paled version of their real-life look.
So if we need to liven them up, we would always have to mask their surrounding and colour the flowers.


Hoya R72

Again, the masking (or rather unmasking) of the flowers and addition of colours is very subjective. One has to paint it to one's liking.
And as always, not everyone would concur with the way you've coloured your subjects.
It's really really very subjective.


Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping.
3. After channel swapping, masking done to adjust Blue and Magenta to give the flower some colours.
4. Here unmasking of the background done to allow Hue and Saturation to bring out some colours on the background folliage.

ELP




Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping.
3. After channel swapping, masking done again to adjust Blue and Magenta to give the flower some colours.
4. Similarly unmasking of the background done here to allow Hue and Saturation to bring out some colours on the background folliage. One would notice that ELP gives more colours as compared with R72.

(sorry, something wrong with the size. The upload to Flickr was strangely altered.)


Hoya 25A

Sequence of photos:

1. Straight out of camera
2. With channel swapping.
3. After channel swapping, masking done again to adjust Blue and Magenta to give the flower some colours.
4. Similarly unmasking of the background done here to allow Hue and Saturation to bring out some colours on the background folliage. This one has the most clours. But honestly, I am not sure how to deal with so much hue. I sometimes prefer to have lesser, such as with the ELP.

 

[Francis247]

The Hoya 25A is a Red filter which is used as an IR filter for Kosak HIE film (no longer in production).
For digital IR, it is best with ELP, Cokin P007 and Hoya R72.

 

[fatigue]

The Hoya 25A is a Red filter which is used as an IR filter for Kosak HIE film (no longer in production).
For digital IR, it is best with ELP, Cokin P007 and Hoya R72.

Yes, Hoya 25A is a red filter, also used in B&W photography.
I also feel that the 3 filters you mentioned are the best for digital IR.
But there are photographers who wanted something different from the "usual" IR photographs.
These photographers makes IR photography more interesting

 

[LowLights]

limwhow.. Bro you the man.. :thumbsup:

The Hoya 25A filter is interesting .. but it does look a little similar to Goldie doe not it .. er Goldie not in this comparison ? :bsmilie:

 

[limwhow]

limwhow.. Bro you the man.. :thumbsup:

The Hoya 25A filter is interesting .. but it does look a little similar to Goldie doe not it .. er Goldie not in this comparison ? :bsmilie:

Maybe it does look similar, LowLights.
But I don't have a Goldie.
Maybe I should ask Francis247 and Fatigue - is the specifications of Goldie similar to this 25A?
Aiyah... I can only contribute in this small way... don't say like that lah... haha...

 

[fatigue]

Maybe it does look similar, LowLights.
But I don't have a Goldie.
Maybe I should ask Francis247 and Fatigue - is the specifications of Goldie similar to this 25A?
Aiyah... I can only contribute in this small way... don't say like that lah... haha...

Goldie's cut-off is bit lower than 25A.

Goldie is red-orange filter
25A is red filter
590nm is an orange filter

In terms of cut-off:
590nm < Goldie < 25A < ELP optical cast < R72

 

[SurrealDreamWalker]

Goldie is cut-off bit lower than 25A. Goldie is red-orange filter while 25A is red filter

Hi bro fatigue, how about Goldie IR using the Nikon 056 and Nikon R60 filters?

Another interesting info by Bjørn Rørslett @ http://www.naturfotograf.com/irfilters.html

 

[SurrealDreamWalker]

And... anyone has tried with a Hoya U-360 filter... for ultra-violet photography?

http://www.naturfotograf.com/ir_D1_filters.html

http://www.armadale.org.uk/phototech.htm

 

[SurrealDreamWalker]

i dug out an interesting ancient thread on UV photography @ http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126277

 

[kuanwk]

The Hoya 25A is a Red filter which is used as an IR filter for Kosak HIE film (no longer in production).
For digital IR, it is best with ELP, Cokin P007 and Hoya R72.

tot I'd put up this comparison I did of ELP, R72 and P007, for reference..
shot with the same settings, roughly within a 15min timespan..
apologies for rather underexposed shots..

 

[LowLights]

And... anyone has tried with a Hoya U-360 filter... for ultra-violet photography?

http://www.naturfotograf.com/ir_D1_filters.html

http://www.armadale.org.uk/phototech.htm

I like the 89B filter's B&W

I also like the kite aerial Photography .. anyone ready to send up their dslr :bsmilie:

 

[LowLights]

i dug out an interesting ancient thread on UV photography @ http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=126277

Wa Bro .. you can really dig .. 2005 :bigeyes:

 

[LowLights]

tot I'd put up this comparison I did of ELP, R72 and P007, for reference..
shot with the same settings, roughly within a 15min timespan..
apologies for rather underexposed shots..

Thanks..

But maybe it me.. I dun see that the Cokin is too much different from the ELP.. or for that matter the R72 :dunno:

 

[Francis247]

And... anyone has tried with a Hoya U-360 filter... for ultra-violet photography?

http://www.naturfotograf.com/ir_D1_filters.html

http://www.armadale.org.uk/phototech.htm

It is a bit hard to get the Hoya U-360 or U-330. You can try checking out Edmund Opticals but the size is an issue IIRC. The most easily available UV-pass filter is the B+W 403 but it leaks a lot of IR also. So you will need an IR-cut filter to remove the IR contamination.