Which better 3CCD or CMOS

[Ansel]

Thinking of getting a consumer HD video cam.

Looking at the Sony HDR-CX7E memory stick model vs the Panasonic HDC-SD5.

Price of the Sony is higher even though it has a single CMOS sensor, vs the Panasonic 3CCD model which is cheaper.

One got the CZ lens and the other got the Leica lens.

Does anyone know which has the better video quality and the better value for money for what it does?

 

[engr]

CCD has smearing problem, CMOS has roller shutter prob. AS long as you are aware of the short comings, you can handle the situations.

CCD Vs CMOS

 

[Parchiao]

I read that the current 6.1mp sensor used in the Sonys are very noisy in low light. On the other hand, the 1/6" sensors used on the Panasonics are smaller, so just as noiosy in low light.

 

[Ansel]

I read that the current 6.1mp sensor used in the Sonys are very noisy in low light. On the other hand, the 1/6" sensors used on the Panasonics are smaller, so just as noiosy in low light.

Thanks Parchiao.

Review of the SD5 appeared in today's (13/11) DL.

 

[Parchiao]

Okay, don't have ST, but there is camcorderinfo.

The DVD version of the SD5, the SX5 so image quality should be the same.

The CX7 review.

See the performance scores.

 

[Ansel]

Okay, don't have ST, but there is camcorderinfo.

The DVD version of the SD5, the SX5 so image quality should be the same.

The CX7 review.

See the performance scores.

Sigh....tough decision. Well, 3 more weeks till SITEX.

 

[Anti-Social]

The 3CCD should give you more accurate color reproduction as it splits the light like filters to record on 3 different ccd and then joins them back again! I wish slrs had something like that! Its like having 3 camcorders with 3 different color filters then you join all the videos together to get a perfect color reproduction. I hope that clears you mind

 

[grantyale]

The 3CCD should give you more accurate color reproduction as it splits the light like filters to record on 3 different ccd and then joins them back again! I wish slrs had something like that! Its like having 3 camcorders with 3 different color filters then you join all the videos together to get a perfect color reproduction. I hope that clears you mind

The advantage of 3CCD is to triple the effective sensor area without making the diagonal line longer. Or from another perspective - not wasting light. :bsmilie: Color reproduction is not intrinsicly better though. 3CCD SLR will probably have an awkward profile. :bsmilie:

 

[Anti-Social]

Nah it wouldn't be awkward, imagine we could have the color reproduction equal to the sigma ferveron chip ;p

 

[Anti-Social]

The advantage of 3CCD is to triple the effective sensor area without making the diagonal line longer. Or from another perspective - not wasting light. :bsmilie: Color reproduction is not intrinsicly better though. 3CCD SLR will probably have an awkward profile. :bsmilie:

Quote from wikipedia:
"By taking a separate reading of red, green, and blue values for each pixel, three-CCD cameras achieve much better precision than single-CCD cameras. Almost all single-CCD cameras use a bayer filter, which allows them to detect only one-third of the color information for each pixel. The other two-thirds must be interpolated with a demosaicing algorithm to 'fill in the gaps'.

The combination of the three sensors can be done in the following ways:

* Composite sampling, where the three sensors are perfectly aligned to avoid any color artifact when recombining the information from the three color planes"

There you go its better color reproduction by combination not lining up the 3 sensors. The thing also captures slightly more light on each sensor at the same time. I don't see how expanding the ccd horizontally can help to capture more light.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3CCD

 

[Draccoyap]

each of them has thier own advantages and disadvantages.

3CCD captured better color, but because it consists of three CCDs, it has more optical components. to provide you with the same size of the camera or camcorder, the CCD size is relatively smaller than the CMOS sensor.

In the above situation, CMOS sensor generally have the advantage of performing well in low light.

sometime earlier back, you will notice that Canon is using CMOS while most others, like nikon and sony are using CCD (i heard that all these CCD made by Sony). In the battle, NO one is better than the other solely becasue of the type of sensor they use, but other aspect of technology.

But you will see that the sensor advancement in dslr technology is towards CMOS.

 

[grantyale]

Quote only when you understand. Secondary sources can be misleading at times. Good color reproduction means small difference between recorded color and the actual color in the scene. 3CCD does not give better colors but higher chroma resolution and doesn't suffer from color Moire. Foveon chip has worse color reproduction especially at low signal levels than traditional bayer or 3CCD methods in that the signal-to-noise ratio is different between channels and the separation between channels is worse.

The awkward part is that the camera body will be a lot thicker to host the huge prism and three sensors.

== edit ==

Not to forget that DVD uses MPEG2 and YUV 4:2:0 sampling. This means if the destination of your video is DVD, 3CCD makes little to no sense because the extra chroma resolution will be dumped at compression.

 

[jaegersing]

Not to forget that DVD uses MPEG2 and YUV 4:2:0 sampling. This means if the destination of your video is DVD, 3CCD makes little to no sense because the extra chroma resolution will be dumped at compression.

Cannot be lah! Remember it's a downward slope. You are always better starting with higher amounts of data and discarding later, rather than having less data and going downhill from there.

 

[Anti-Social]

Quote only when you understand. Secondary sources can be misleading at times. Good color reproduction means small difference between recorded color and the actual color in the scene. 3CCD does not give better colors but higher chroma resolution and doesn't suffer from color Moire. Foveon chip has worse color reproduction especially at low signal levels than traditional bayer or 3CCD methods in that the signal-to-noise ratio is different between channels and the separation between channels is worse.

The awkward part is that the camera body will be a lot thicker to host the huge prism and three sensors.

== edit ==

Not to forget that DVD uses MPEG2 and YUV 4:2:0 sampling. This means if the destination of your video is DVD, 3CCD makes little to no sense because the extra chroma resolution will be dumped at compression.

So you blame my source now as unrealiable? Your arguments have no proof whatsoever yet i have presented them to you from a source that is trusted by "most" people. You have a point? Prove it before you bullsh##.

I think people will be willing to trade size for better color reproduction. Not all but some, if you get a better picture, why not? (cost is another total different issue please don't got there)

Image noise only becomes a problem at high iso that is for sure, it applies to all cameras, just more or less. In exchange for better color reproduction, I won't mind.

3 ccd captures colors more accurately as the prism splits the actual color and records it, unlike some sensors which has to emulate the colors it can't capture.

Wikipedia (repeat):
Almost all single-CCD cameras use a bayer filter, which allows them to detect only one-third of the color information for each pixel. The other two-thirds must be interpolated with a demosaicing algorithm to 'fill in the gaps'.

Please don't turn this into the fz18 un-die-able thread that goes on for eternity....

 

[Ansel]

Ah...ahem....

Thanks to all for your contribution.

I would like to discuss the pros and cos of the CMOS and 3CCD sensors with reference to the particular camera models I cited, ie, the Sony HDR-CX7E and the Panasonic HDC-SD5 because these are the models I am considering purchase.

 

[Parchiao]

BTW have you considered the part where you will need to convert AVCHD files to something else that is readable?

 

[Anti-Social]

go for the pana, 3 ccd!

 

[Ansel]

BTW have you considered the part where you will need to convert AVCHD files to something else that is readable?

Yeah...since you mentioned...I know both the Sony and the Pana use the AVCHD for their DVD and memory card(stick) models. But Sony has a few tape models that use the HVD format(probably high bandwidth).

What editing and presentation options do I have with AVCHD? Am I limited to BluRay media in future?

 

[Parchiao]

Check out the Panasonic 3CCD forum. I tried the conversion once with Adobe Premiere Elements, was somewhat jerky, then my hard disk crashed for some other reason, never got about to do anymore conversions.

 

[grantyale]

Anti-Social: Wikipedia is as good as it is. People use it and edit it, but a lot of this information may be learnt from layman text or even advertisement - which is what the majority are well exposed to. In short, chroma resolution and color reproduction are two different things. You may believe in what you believe in and I don't feel like wasting other people's time arguing with an uninformed.

jaegersing: It's nice to have the best source no matter what nasty thing may happen down the pipeline. Unfortuantely "consumer" video formats nowadays don't justify the extra cost of a better source.