What's with all the equipment chase, when composition is paramount ?

[togu]

Hoohoo, so much things to read, to learn.... good after lunch dessert. The forum is never lonely. From family biz like bad papa to food talk like BCM is cool to so-called technical talks like 10D better then D1x, nikon vs canon, L lens is a must etc , all the way to lust over porche.

Now I find working in the office pretty fun, with all these entertainments.

 

[Wolfgang]

Originally posted by Red Dawn
Hi

every now and then such postings turn up, which reflects nothing more than insecurity on the part of such posters themselves...

Marc, how can anyone take u seriously when u're lusting after a Porsche? So that means secretly you do lust after what you cannot get, and u're getting frustrated, so u vent out in a public forum on the pretext of pictures being more important than than the equipment......

u need to take ur own advice and go out and take more pictures instead of worrying about (other pple's) equipment....

oh btw why do u need a F80? Wouldn't a F65 do just as well? Wat's with the F80 that you can't do with a F65?

Hey, i think my Nikon F601 rocks and kicks the crap out of your lil red dot anytime. :devil:

Kidding BH!

But really, i think you have hot the nail on the head...

 

[djchris]

I think the advices are all given out there..just read and ponder a sec about them..

There's nothing wrong with others lusting over equipment, using the best gear in the house for their shoots..
Just shoot with the gear that you think is appropriate for your shoot.

In times when garion and newbie is using their D30s, tsystem using his D100 and megaweb using his D60 for macros, I'm still whipping it out with my A40 with my EOS300v sleeping in the bag..

I don't think I can hold a long lense as steady and well as megaweb does..
So I just use my A40 which is so much lighter and just stretch a wee bit further closer to the subject..

 

[marcwang]

I've never had a thread that long, lets cool it. I agree with all your viewpoints, perhaps I need some time to understand your passion for photography. Hmmm.... calling me a kid doesnt really speak highly of you ,does it 10der ?

Anyway, yeah.... I'll contribute quality stuff when I can. Became famous overnight in the wrong way. Argh!

:thumbsup:

I've posted some pics on the Landscape gallery here, have a look and give me some good critiques will ya ?

 

[10Der]

You are still a kid.

I called you a kid for two reasons...
one, you are indeed a young chap of 21 years old. By age, many of us older brudders all view you as a kid.

Two, what you have posted and the way you think made people feel that you are still a kid and have yet fully matured. Yes, you may be matured but you need to be further matured.

Anyway, we are all a kid at heart as we pursue our interests with zest and zeal. Let's keep this thread closed. We all learnt a lesson or two from here. Its to everybody's interests that this forum serves to encourage productive critiques and sharing of information that serves to only uplift and inspire.

Adieu.

Originally posted by marcwang
I've never had a thread that long, lets cool it. I agree with all your viewpoints, perhaps I need some time to understand your passion for photography. Hmmm.... calling me a kid doesnt really speak highly of you ,does it 10der ?

Anyway, yeah.... I'll contribute quality stuff when I can. Became famous overnight in the wrong way. Argh!

:thumbsup:

I've posted some pics on the Landscape gallery here, have a look and give me some good critiques will ya ?

 

[sequitur]

he's just wondering...

he probably didn't get it but hey.. he'll understand soon.

it's human nature to want something good.. simple economic theory goes "there're unlimited wants but limited resources"...

for those who know me from posting 3 months back i wondered if i should get a film SLR or a digital cam or whatever set up... i eventually got myself the sony 717.. and i used up almost all the money in my bank account to get it...

if i had the money i'd want a ferrari and porsche and mclaren.. (man anybody saw that car in charlie's angels... DAMN CHIO)

okay i digress.

you see photography is an expensive hobby.. i'm starting to live with it.. the results i got from my 717 are so good that i'd been considering getting really good cameras like the 1d that -MIGHT- let me take nicer photos.. but that will be when i'm eventually earning enough money to spend.

why do people buy expensive, fast lenses, good equipment ? one reason can be for technical specification's sake. the higher, the better the tech specs, the better a technical shot can be taken (of course subject to the photographer's skill.. let's say he's a pro and he uses a lousy lens to capture a nice photo.. he might use a better lens to make that nice photo excellently nice.)

the other reason would be the shiokness of owning it. why ? coz if you own good stuff.. it just feels good and the ease of use is high.

another reason can be this.. get the high end stuff first.. you don't have to upgrade in the future. why did i choose 717 ? coz it's 5 megapixels and it can probably last me 2 years or so. resale value of a 5 mp digicam is pretty good too. (and picture quality is MARVELOUS)

and the last reason is of course.. show off. (yes i own the 717 for all these reasons.. i think it's a really chio camera.) but i believe SLR users don't simply buy lenses to show off.. coz that's simply unworthy.. if you're investing money in SLR and photography and all the lenses... SURELY YOU KNOW WHAT YOU"RE DOING ! so i think "showing off" is really a very mild reason.


i hope the adults don't really attack "kids".. coz "kids" can take really nice photographs too..

and i appeal to everyone here.. not to flame marc.. i mean.. yeah he started this post but he did not mean to attack or provoke anybody.. at least this is what i thought from the "tone" of his posts.. i think it's really just a simple question.. a simple confused question.. whatever you call it..

i'm 19 yrs old.. i'm younger than he is.. i just owned a high-end cam for 3 weeks... my previous point and shoots gave me really ugly pictures.. but hey.. don't diss me, don't flame me.

it's just all down to the desirability of the person for his/her equipment, his/her love for photography and its aspects (including show off eh ! hahaha), and all the other stuff (i dunno what other stuff though lol).

okay have fun.

 

[clive]

just shoot and be happy

 

[Jed]

Originally posted by marcwang
When it comes down to Porsche and Proton, its just damn different man. The thrills of a Porsche is to die for. Will work my ass off for it !

You know, you were making out a case quite well until you said this; then I really had to scratch my head. As many people have already pointed out, you've just defeated your entire argument. If you can see the value in forking out for a Porsche over a Proton, then you really should be able to see the value of forking out over expensive equipment, whether photographic or otherwise.

If you want a car that is affordable that gives you a heck of a lot of fun, go across to Malaysia and buy a VW GT TDI PD (and you thought letters only attached to the end of expensive lenses). I've been saying this to anyone who'll listen, but they have more torque than a Porsche Boxster, cost 2.5x less to buy, and consume about 2.5x less fuel to run. And diesel at that, and not petrol.

But it's not a Porsche you say? And it looks ordinary you say? Well then you know exactly why some people who completely underutilise their overexpensive gear buy their overexpensive gear in the first place.

Mind you, I'm not saying your argument is moot. I tend to agree with you generally, just that you have to see there is a reason why people do it; I don't necessarily have to agree with it but it's their call and their money.

 

[Jed]

Originally posted by erwinx
So, why are you passing judgment on 'others' who buy equipment that is more expensive than yours? envy?

I'd take a little envy over a little apathy any day.

 

[Jed]

Originally posted by Wolfgang
(which is very decent compared to my F601)

Hey! When'd you get an F601?

Or are you talking about the Fuji?

 

[Wolfgang]

Originally posted by Jed
Hey! When'd you get an F601?

Or are you talking about the Fuji?

Old camera.. a Nikon F601. Was passed to me by a relative who had no use for it..

 

[psyche]

Originally posted by marcwang
hmm... its getting hot in here.

I'm basically voicing down to the over emphasis of picture quality over photography itself. Photography was never meant to be perfect, and perfection was never guarantees a good picture. Seems like in many cases, we only talk about picture quality, composition almost comes second, when in fact it should be the other way round. The equipment chase is bringing photography into murky waters in many cases, not unless the photographer is focus. I'm not saying equipment aint important, just that we should start really taking pictures before talking abt real equipment. If I'm a brag, I wouldnt list my equipment, they are probably rubbish to many.

This thread was never intended to be provoking. If it did provoke you, perhaps, we gotta think. I'm in photography, for the sake of beauty, not perfection. I hope some people get what I'm saying, rather than simply join in the crowd and start flaming. I'm only 21, money is hard to come by, and thats perhaps why I weigh my opportunities and maximise what I have.

Hmmm , Marc, that explains. Maybe you're still a student and very new to photography at that.

I don't think you can ask the question why use an f/2.8 when an f/4 will do. There's a certain bias in that statement. How do you know no one needs an f/2.8? Ask a sports or wildlife photographer and he can tell you the world of difference an f/2.8 is over f/4. BUT...

If you don't really need the f/2.8, good for you buddy. Just get the f/4. If you don't need the 300mm, then don't get it. (Well, maybe now you can't even afford it even if you want as a student.)

The huge diff in price comes from the lens design. You just compare Canon's 200mm f/2.8 and the f/2.0 version. See the difference in weight and size... and of cos, price??? Heck, it's only 1 stop faster isn't it? But why?

I'm not sure how far or serious you're going to get in photography. But if you do start earning your own money, I'm afraid it's likely you might eat your own words next time.

Serious photography is not a cheap hobby. Rather than wonder, drool or self-justify constantly why people can afford expensive equipment (and you can't), I think it's better you concentrate your hobby with the equipment you have, no matter how much cheaper they are compared to others. Buy only what you can afford. And use it!

As to why people use f/2.8 and pro lenses? Heh-heh... Hopefully you will understand one day....

Cheers...

 

[reno77]

..the thread that just wont die.

 

[psyche]

Originally posted by reno77
..the thread that just wont die.

Too tempting to reply lar. It's a flaming subject... okie juz kidding. More like a philosophical subject.

 

[plainsman]

actually marc's initial post does make me realise that, while equipment chase is not worthless, there are always a danger of having too many people who believe that owning the equipment is more important than learning how to use it well.

we see this in almost every hobby - from cars to hifi and what have you... there are guys who have just got their licence, not really develop good control, when to accelerate/brake etc but they go and buy a car simply cos its damn 'power' (e.g. evo7)

i would say that in photography, equipment, learning to use equipment, and composition skills are all inter-related; there are some lattitude (for lack of a better word), but to go into extremes in any one way will probably make us a little less-balanced in the art of photography and could impede our progress in the long run.

that aside, a little OT, i think apart from all these mentioned, knowing how to meter a picture is really quite important... often those who are still learning (like myself) are sometimes not sure if a pictures is too bright or too dark... well.... keep on learning and shooting

cheerios

 

[maxtheevil]

regarding your qn, i had a few glimspes, and well, in short, i guess there will always be fools who think that by owning a Mont Blanc pen, they write better novels, ..., thus, we should thank them in this food chain, or else we would not get better cam equipment, more than what we need a times,..., in terms of technology i mean.

anyway, those weirdos who disregard your comments, and thoughts, and link that to a result of age, are equally queer, disregard what they say,

i saw your pics, and i thought it beats many whose more interested in taking pics, of boring flowers, their weird families, and all that queer boring stuff, i can't comprehend why they need anything more than a polariod cam to do that....

you must undestand, that appreciation of art, or simply beauty, requires a working brain, but in silypore,. more often than not, we are much lacking in these area.

great pics, keep the flame alive, dun see too many of the pics here, it comtaminates you!!!!

u might wan to check out PDN online, so long....

(meanwhile have fun, and this would be my first and final mail on this thread)

 

[Zplus]

Sing to the tune of Flying Without Wings....

Shooting Without Film:

Everybody's looking for a something
One thing that makes it all complete
You'll find it in the strangest places
Places you never knew it could be

Some find it in the lens of their camera
Some find it in their bodies specs
Who can deny the joy it brings
When you've found that special thing
You're shooting without film

Some find it shooting every morning
Some in their P&S lives
You'll find it in the film they develop
A simple pic can make you laugh or cry

You find it in the coolest dslr
The kind you cherish all your life
And when you know how much that means
You've found that special thing
You're shooting without film

So, impossible as they may seem
You can't afford every camera
Cos who's to know which one you let go
Would have made you complete

Well, for me it's shooting people I know
To watch the smile light up their face
To know that I can say that's lovely
at any given time or place

It's little things that only I know
Those are the things that make them mine
And it's like flying without wings
Cos my shots, my special thing
You're shooting without film

My shots the place my life begins
I'll not stop till it ends
I'm flying without wings
And that's the joy it bring
I'm shooting without film



Hey! Whatever rings your bells man!
Its their cash anyhow..... heck if I had that kind of money I just might for the heck of it.

Like urm... buy a couple of Ferraris, Lambo (which I saw at Sentosa on Saturday) even if I do not need it.