WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

This is an analysis of Sigma statement, and I fully agree.
M43 users are mostly using Pro Lenses now since users are usually serious hobbyist in birding, macros etc.
Sigma expertise is in prime lenses eg. those ART lenses they made for Sony are great but they do not have the expertise to make better lenses than OM for teles and Macro. In face, the latest teles for Sony made by Tamron I felt is better than Sigma (according to the circle of firends I am in who uses Sony).

One take from a respected industry commentator. Scroll to the bottom:

https://bythom.com/newsviews/strange-things-said-xxiii.html

 

[swifty]

Actually I highly doubt it's a lack of capabilities on Sigma's part.
Being a third party supplier Sigma will always be trying to chase the biggest volume and largest margins. In the past that was in DSLR APS-C and FF. But m43 pivoted first at a time when DSLRs still ruled the roost so they just never enjoyed a lot of attention.
Now it's largely mirrorless FF for margins and still APS-C but in mirrorless for volume but at a much reduced volume compared to the past. We also have more brand support in APS-C including all three largest manufacturers plus Fuji with APS-C as their main system so you can't really blame Sigma for not really paying m43 dedicated attention.
They'd want as broad a reach for their investments so you get repurposed APS-C designs in m43 mount which sometimes end up with pretty familiar and/or useful effective focal lengths but often not the case.

 

[Pitachu]

This article show how backdated and lack of understanding Sigma has on the M43 market.

New Sigma patent discloses the design of two new MFT lenses: 20mm and 14mm f/1.4 – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

If I am in the market for a prime, I will get a
Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 17mm F1.2 Pro or
Panasonic Leica Summilux DG 25mm F1.4 (I already have)

Although Primes are available on M43 and I do have them, I felt these are areas where FF stand out.
I would just grab my son Sony A7 IV and his primes when I want to shoot with primes. I am objective, and not a
blind die-hard fan. Primes with wide aperture on FF do offer nicer bokehs! I know, but seldom have a use for it in my kind of shooting
with my M43 camera!

Sigma have a fixed mindset just because they have success with their ART series lenses for FF and not realize this may not be so
relevant for M43 users. No wonder Sigma find that their sales in M43 lenses has declined sharply.

Sigma should look at where all the excitement and which lenses M43 users are queuing up to buy!
I was at a Olympus Birding Event some weeks ago and the group there is lamenting on still waiting for their 150-400mm
when they saw a few other users using it and also commented that they can't wait to get their hands on the OM 90mm 2x Macro
(or 4 times depending on how you look at it)

New Sigma patent discloses the design of two new MFT lenses: 20mm and 14mm f/1.4 – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[swifty]

I think it's hard to blame them. It's largely down to ROI and if they can't make a case for the product, frankly they shouldn't make it.
But for the longer focal lengths then frequently it's just a case of more is better.
The Olympus 100-400 shares a lot of similarities with the Sigma 100-400, so much so that it's almost certainly just a modification of design when licensed to Olympus.
Here I do expect m43 to reap some benefits from Sigma's general telephoto lens development as dedicated m43 designs for telephotos just aren't all that crucial.

 

[Blu-By-U]

I would love an updated BigMa on my OM-1 with less weight and bigger aperture. And OIS will be welcomed.

I have owned several Sigma lenses and most are rather soft on the long end and they breath. Also they are very very HEAVY.

 

[Pitachu]

Ha! Ha! just after I have mentioned me and buddies felt SIgma has fallen behind Tamron on lenses for Sony....

Sigma CEO says they are working on a “different” 70-200mm f/2.8 lens version that is coming “sooner rather than later” | sonyalpharumors

Sigma CEO Yamaki has been interviewed by Fengniao. They Question: Will the art series 70-200 f2.8 lens, which is eagerly awaited by domestic users, be released this year? Answer: We have heard about it and are working on it, so we hope to see it sooner rather than later. In fact, we have been...

www.sonyalpharumors.com

Sigma CEO is actually at a loss of what to do.......
after saying its demand for MFT has fallen sharply
I guess it has fallen sharply for its lenses for Sony too after Tamron released some interesting lenses for Sony

It is actually not demand for MFT lenses has fallen sharply,
it is actually SIgma has not analyzed the market correctly and not making lenses which the market want!
for both Sony as well as MFT.

 

[ricohflex]

Yamaki was simply telling the truth.
He could have just shown a pie chart and no need to talk so much.
Businesses need to make money. They do not bet their company's future on M43 a dying sensor format.

Pie Chart for Global share (credit : https://www.digitalcameraworld.com)

Global Camera Market Share 2021

This is Digital Camera Global Market Share for 2021. (By 2023 it may be worse for M43)

It is

Canon 47.9%
Sony 22.1%
Nikon 13.7%
Fuji 5.6%
Panasonic 4.4%
Other 6.3%

Panasonic 4.4% will include M43 and L mount full frame.

OMDS (M43) is not separately mentioned and presumably is included in "Other 6.3%".
That would include Pentax, Leica, Hasselblad, Ricoh, DJI, GoPro and OMDS, etc

 

[one eye jack]

@ricohflex, No Yamaki CEO of Sigma is not telling the truth. He is merely making himself look smart but the reality is that the Japanese camera industry "strangles itself through aggressive competition among themselves much like the pc industry which brought the downfall of IBM . This Fuji rumour article although paints a positive outlook for Fujifilm nevertheless attribute the crisis by a reporter for Nikkei in which is the mindset of camera companies which are of their own doing.

Aggressive competition among themselves resulted in price cuts and falling profits. Nikon announced in another article which state it is closing down all it's factories in Japan and transfering operations to it's plant in Thailand saying quality can be maintained and R&D will be in Japan.

Not only killing themselves by aggressive competition, camera companies refuse to compete with smartphone companies citing too aggressive competition that they fear difficult to overcome which let phone companies surge ahead with AI computation and easy in phone photo editing and export of photos to social media.

This crisis will then result in the collapse of the camera industry. Instead the reporter suggest that camera companies pool their resources together to share expertise and not replicate what each is doing but innovate and produce products which camera enthusiasts want which forms the majority of new equipment buyers, the non professional hobby photographer.

So in essence camera companies are shooting themselves in their collective foot! All of them all in serious trouble if they continue to have have this competitve mindset. Eventually there will be a few company left and they will repeat the mistake all over again. ( My thinking )

Meanwhile hobby photographers will enjoy using used equipment at low prices because camera marketing are seducing people that their road to improved success is using new camera and lenses which is untrue as people do not want to acknowledge that it's not their gear but themselves not learning the photography basics. The old low resolution camera is already very capable for most photographic tasks. ( Up to a point where new technology is better and convenient reducing the doubt whether photographer has captured a photo that is sharp/ focused and well exposed ). Actually all the in fighting did M43 a favour as they are left for dead but in reality no competition from other camera company leaving them free to innovate but if Panasonic and OMDS have same mindset then the future will not look good for them too. Hope they realise this.


https://www.fujirumors.com/nikkei-j...e-10-years-on-the-brink-of-extinction-unless/

Yamaki was simply telling the truth.
He could have just shown a pie chart and no need to talk so much.
Businesses need to make money. They do not bet their company's future on M43 a dying sensor format.

Pie Chart for Global share (credit : https://www.digitalcameraworld.com)

Global Camera Market Share 2021

This is Digital Camera Global Market Share for 2021. (By 2023 it may be worse for M43)

It is

Canon 47.9%
Sony 22.1%
Nikon 13.7%
Fuji 5.6%
Panasonic 4.4%
Other 6.3%

Panasonic 4.4% will include M43 and L mount full frame.

OMDS (M43) is not separately mentioned and presumably is included in "Other 6.3%".
That would include Pentax, Leica, Hasselblad, Ricoh, DJI, GoPro and OMDS, etc

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex you sure have a warped interpretation of news you read......
just like you tried to twist news about JIP going to close down OM Systems after 1 year.....
now, it is 2 years plus already...... OM Systems is still around and growing stronger.

Sigma is talking about sales of lenses, and you brought out camera sales and during this transition period,
it is difficult for large retail shop to categorise Olympus or OM Systems sales so it is under others, but all long
Olympus has a relatively smaller market share than the 3 large boys.

But have a look at what is happening. OM Systems is opening a new facility.
Do you think JIP will pump in more money if the sales of OM Systems lenses is bad?

The logical conclusion is that Sigma's lenses for are doing badly as they are old, obsolete and Sigma failed to catch up,
just like it is now trying to catch up with Tamron for Sony mounts.

“OM Digital Solutions Production Engineering Center” opened in Hachioji – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

Yamaki was simply telling the truth.
He could have just shown a pie chart and no need to talk so much.
Businesses need to make money. They do not bet their company's future on M43 a dying sensor format.

Pie Chart for Global share (credit : https://www.digitalcameraworld.com)

Global Camera Market Share 2021

This is Digital Camera Global Market Share for 2021. (By 2023 it may be worse for M43)

It is

Canon 47.9%
Sony 22.1%
Nikon 13.7%
Fuji 5.6%
Panasonic 4.4%
Other 6.3%

Panasonic 4.4% will include M43 and L mount full frame.

OMDS (M43) is not separately mentioned and presumably is included in "Other 6.3%".
That would include Pentax, Leica, Hasselblad, Ricoh, DJI, GoPro and OMDS, etc

 

[one eye jack]

Well if Japanese camera sales does not really say much about world wide sales here is B&H North America 2023 sales for Jan & Feb . M43 no where in sight.
And who said compact cameras are dead! So is Canon.

 

[ricohflex]

Credit: reuters.com

Wonder if the 2 events might in some way, affect buyers of cameras in near future.
Will we have money (disposable income) enough to buy an expensive camera for our hobby?
That would be a luxury in hard times if there is a world wide depression.

It does mean that some lousy camera companies will be wiped out. Does that include OMDS?

Recently Silvergate and Silicon Valley Bank have collapsed rapidly with 3 days of each other.
YouTube pundit says more (about 20) USA banks are in trouble.
The financial contagion may or may not spread to other countries.

 

[one eye jack]

Here you go again ricohflex with your imminent failure of Olympus/OMDS by insinuating a worldwide depression rumour that has been circulating since last year and the old story of Olympus unfortunate foray into playing in the financial markets. @12 min. video said for it's role in the scandal that the whole board of directors then resigned and the individuals involved were prosecuted although punishment is tantamount to suspended sentence. It explained the corporate culture in Japan but state that despite scandal Olympus was profitable with it"s medical division.

With Olympus hiving off the camera division ( again a quirk of Japanese corporate culture ) it continues to function as normal.
it is over 2 years now from your predicted demise of OMDS. No doubt there are hickups along the way. It is not only OMDS but every camera company is also affected by shrinking markets and world economic turbulence such as the linked videos, such is the internet culture and nature of information age. Whether economic downturn is on the horizon or not camera buyers will naturally think carefully about their next purchase and this is in turn make camera companies play musical chairs in how or who survives. Who knows really. OMDS will try to stay relevant for sure.

Wonder if the 2 events might in some way, affect buyers of cameras in near future.
Will we have money (disposable income) enough to buy an expensive camera for our hobby?
That would be a luxury in hard times if there is a world wide depression. The reality is there will be some worldwide financial shock as the fundamentals if finance just like Olympus scandal must come to a settlement as America has to deal with it's massive trillion dollar debt. The only way is to let it's economy collapse as this is the fastest and natural solution which entails hardship not only for Americans but all peoples of the world so again nothing shocking about it but just reality. Here are similar rumbles circulating in the same vein. Life goes on.

Credit: reuters.com

It does mean that some lousy camera companies will be wiped out. Does that include OMDS?

Recently Silvergate and Silicon Valley Bank have collapsed rapidly with 3 days of each other.
YouTube pundit says more (about 20) USA banks are in trouble.
The financial contagion may or may not spread to other countries.

 

[one eye jack]

Ricohflex if you keep on harping on Olympus/OMDS case then it reflects your obsessive and compulsive mind and you know that psychology consider this condition as abnormal. Camera companies have come and gone so what is the big deal about omds. A wise man may give his opinion and let time be his answer if it unfolds. That is the nature of life. There are seasons and cycles. If you think a company can remain permanently in the marketplace then history has shown you that it is not natural either. Rather spend your time to be in bliss or happiness. This state of happiness benefits all eventually. What are you observing now, doom and gloom that is the current times and energy that exists now. Are you happy about it, if not what can you do? ( Plenty ). Humans already decided they do not want the current state of affairs so things are changing every moment. It would be a waste of your energy and life to be obsessed about omds. Life goes on, be happy.

Ps I will not respond further as I have already stated my opinions and let time be my answer too. To continue is pointless as all views are already expressed by you and others.

 

[ricohflex]

Monitor this. See what happens. If it turns out as described, it means people have less or no money to buy non-essentials like cameras/lenses.
Especially those hobbyists who already have several cameras/lenses in their dry box.
For M43, it is a death knell.

 

[Pitachu]

@ricohflex go and join some photo groups instead of just sitting behind a computer and predicting the demise of M43!

I am in 2 local photo groups and most of the members are retirees with huge savings to go travelling several times a year and getting this new body and that new lenses. On the other hand, all my friends who are still working are not buying any camera equipment, though they have high paying jobs but they dont have much time for this hobby). Photographers, those who are struggling like Robin Wong who keep lamenting he cannot afford this and that may not buy new equipment but I know an established portrait photographer who just bought a new set of the Fujifilm Medium Format camera and lenses. Another one just spent $18k buying the OM-1 with the 150-400!

People who buy camera equipment are basically not affected by the economy!

Monitor this. See what happens. If it turns out as described, it means people have less or no money to buy non-essentials like cameras/lenses.
Especially those hobbyists who already have several cameras/lenses in their dry box.
For M43, it is a death knell.

Monitor this. See what happens. If it turns out as described, it means people have less or no money to buy non-essentials like cameras/lenses.
Especially those hobbyists who already have several cameras/lenses in their dry box.
For M43, it is a death knell.

 

[ricohflex]

What does this mean for OMDS and every other camera company?
It may mean a shrinking of the pie, for a few years.
Consumers may be reticent to buy yet another camera and/or lens.

The Fed do the action of bailing out --- but do not want to call it a bail out.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen says U.S. government won’t bail out Silicon Valley Bank

And then this happens the next day.

Watch this:

 

[Pitachu]

If you think this economic traumas are the cause of a shrinking market, you couldn't be more wrong!
Yes, it may cause consumers to be more thrifty, but not too long ago when the whole economy is booming,
Cameras sales has kept on dropping and dropping. All my 11 friends in my hiking group have stopped using
SLRs and even compact cameras. Why? You must be blind if you cannot see that mobile phones are the cause
of the huge decline in camera sales !!!!! Not economic traumas, Not Full Frame becoming cheaper, Not anything else.

P.s. go and enjoy photography while you still can instead of waiting for the demise of cameras of M43.


QUOTE="ricohflex, post: 9764504, member: 17944"]
What does this mean for OMDS and every other camera company?
It may mean a shrinking of the pie, for a few years.
Consumers may be reticent to buy yet another camera and/or lens.

The Fed do the action of bailing out --- but do not want to call it a bail out.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen says U.S. government won’t bail out Silicon Valley Bank

And then this happens the next day.

Watch this:

[/QUOTE]

 

[Pitachu]

Looks like OM Systems is getting more respect. It was ranked the most reliable camera in Australia.

Survey in Australia shows that OM Digital makes the most reliable cameras – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[one eye jack]

Looks like OM Systems is getting more respect. It was ranked the most reliable camera in Australia.

Survey in Australia shows that OM Digital makes the most reliable cameras – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

He said survey sample is too small to be accurate.

 

[Pitachu]

Based on a survey of 300 people. It is rather small but carries a little weight.
Anyway, I have my fair share of Panasonic, Olympus, Canon and Sony quirks (small faults but rectified by service center).
But interestingly, I have more problems with my Sony Cameras (motherboard fried + tripod mounting crack after using it on Peak Design Capture for 20 days on a hiking trip + overheading and shut down on my 3rd Sony) than my Olympus (actually my friend's OM-1 one of the controls got sticky and difficult to turn). For Canon, only 1 of the lenses suddenly cannot focus but quickly repaired.

He said survey sample is too small to be accurate.