WHATS NEXT FOR M43, after Olympus, what future is left?

[Pitachu]

I was the same dilemma 1 year ago with my EM5 mk 3 with 6 M43 lenses.
I was choosing between upgrading to a new Sony System or the OM-1.
In the end, I go for the OM-1 but I waited for the birthday month for Olympus Club and get a 10% discount.
I finance 40% of it by selling my EM5 mk3 (I got a good price from a nice gentlemen as mine is in a mint condition).

The OM-1 is very good if you are into birds in flight and also if you want to continue to do things with their Live Composite.
With the Pro Capture, I can now capture birds taking off flight and landing too. It is really fun.
Also the Live ND is great when you want to travel without ND filters.
Plus M43 have access to lenses like the 100-400 or 100-450 which gives me a more budgetary solution to reach 800-1000mm for shooting smaller wildlife and birds due to the 2x multiplier on focal length. Full frame lenses to reach above 800mm cost a bomb a weigh a ton!

Having said all the good things above, my son is using a Sony A7 iv, which I have borrowed on some of my trips where I take landscape.
Generally, the dynamic range is better, which will come in handy when you take photos during Golden and Blue hours.

I choose the OM-1 as my main camera as I do not take Blue and Golden hours photos that often and 20mp is really enough for my A3 size photos in photobook and social media. I am sure there are other benefits but I do not use Full Frame that often so I cannot comment.

At the end of the day, what you choose it depends on your usage.

Abit of my story.

I started with Canon SLR, then Panny mirrorless. Lighter, smaller, cheaper, smaller accessories, smaller bag.

During a holiday trip, I smashed the camera on a concrete floor, by accident. The cam strap entangled with something, I pulled with force. When it untangled, it slipped my palm and smashed to the floor. Heartache. Yes, very hard hit, but the frame and lens had no visible crack. The cam refuse to boot and kept resetting. It was at night. I didn't have a spare cam. Doomed. The next morning, I checked the cam, everything back to normal. I went on to use it for another 3 years. No problem at all. My highest respect for Panasonic.

Then I switched to Oly EM5 Mk 2, due to the lens are compatible. But I still bought 2.8 pro lens. Served my well for 5 years b4 mold grew inside the lens and cam. Sent both for cleaning by Oly service centre, not cheap, but I convinced myself, they're still good and still have net book value. Result was good. But they didn't advise and I forgot to ask for the internal battery to be replaced. So, the date need to be set every time I change the battery. Learnt my lesson, I bought a dry cabinet. As memory card and SSD prices dropped, I changed the photo taking resolution to the highest and raw file. Hardly play with the raw files, one, no time, two, seldom got complaint with the jpg version.

Niece, arrowed to be a photographer, first-timer, borrowed my cam once for her uni beauty pageant contest. She returned my cam in good condition and complimented her photos were better than her peers.

Now 8 years on, my Oly cam is still good. However, the video is still HD, bad when viewing on monitor or TV set. Now, I'm in the market looking for upgrade. To my horror discovery, left only Alan Photo carrying the brand. The world has moved on to Sony and move back to Canon.

I still prefer mirrorless because my audience don't look at my photos larger than their hp screen, not more than 1 sec. Very sad norm, nowadays. I also don't develop hardcopy or do business. Only me, an uncle who would look at them on a 27" 4K monitor for the longest time. So, APSC, FF are meaningless.

With my budget, I would have chosen OM5, around $1.6k (body). OM1 is a dream but too expensive, "ideally" around 2.7k (body only). Reading about the uncertain future of mirrorless especially the development of Oly's small service ctr, poor sales worldwide, I bravely looked at other brands. A cheap body (e.g. Sony 6700) plus a good lens (e.g. Sony G Master), $5k, before a external flash light, remote control, spare battery, polariser. That's a huge investment, since I no longer take family photos or in SG, but just for travelling, which offers better and faster control, less distortion than a handphone, e.g. people on both side look wider, buildings are stretched when cam angle tilted.

Suddenly, Oly OM1 doesn't looks expensive any more. However, price at Alan is 3k+. SG onlines prices are more competitive, 2.7k, but I don't know the sellers. My upcoming trip is to Japan. A check in Japan big names like Bic Camera and Yodobashi, their online prices are cheaper. Rakuten is even cheaper, but it is pure online. Bundle with pro II lens (my current is pro I), is like getting the lens at 50-60% discount tha buying the lens along. So, it makes economic sense to get one at the beginning of my my trip, bcos S$9=JPY1,000 and tax-free. However, there are plenty of drawbacks. I don't have time to learn prior to the trip. The warranty after I left the country is as good as gone.

Looking at my situation, either I take a painful switch now, with some times to climb the learning curve of using a new camera and brand, or grab the upfront convenience and advantage to stay put with Oly and buy in Japan but prolong my dependency at the mercy of the uncertain Japan Industrial Partners (JIP)'s strategy for OM Digital Solutions (OMDS). (I dreamed of getting a zoom lens. With new and old Oly cams, this could be realised, I hate switching lens.) It is assumed my current lens can last a few more years, if staying put. Getting a new Oly pro lens in Japan is like 75% discount from says Sony G Master, but granted, Sony G Master lens has innovation like aperture (speed?) setting ring.

May I seek member's advice since I'm perfectly at this cross road now.

 

[Blu-By-U]

I am too deep into the mFT. So switching mounts no longer exist. I have done that once with the FT to mFT, the cost was substantial.

With what we have now, mFT is not going to disappear (At least not in my photography lifetime). If JIP decides that OM-D systems do not have any future, at the very least there is the Lumix or worst that unofficial partner, Yongbo (or something)

But with DJI now controlling Hassie, we may see something from them.

 

[one eye jack]

@Limberg, you can have your dream camera used now...$2180

Olympus OM1

S$2,300 | Olympus OM1 body only

www.carousell.sg

Bear in mind om1 is not cheap even used so think about it carefully. What are your needs really.

 

[swifty]

@Limberg
My advice if you’re not too deep in a system is to just buy for now. Don’t worry too much about the future but also don’t fomo about equipment.
These camera and lenses aren’t meant to be financial investments (in the sense of expecting appreciation), just be happy that it actually holds some value when/if it comes to selling it.
Well, for bodies it sometimes drops to close to nothing but usually there are some residual value.
But measure the value in terms of usage. If you use it often and it brings you joy, it’ll be good value regardless.

So I wouldn’t worry too much about OMD and m43’s future. It’s a mature system so you can already see what you get in the system. It’s not going to change drastically year on year, probably 1-2 lenses at most per major manufacturer per year and sometimes only rehashed versions of older designs and maybe a flurry of body models with generational changes.
If the systems fits you the best now, then go for it. Buy second hand if budget is a big issue.

Even for the newer systems like Canon RF and Nikon Z, the period of rapid expansion is mostly over. It’ll slow to perhaps something similar to Sony’s release schedule in the coming years even with their larger market share.
Of course you do get more third party market support when you have a larger market share.

Finally, m43 is really very capable and probably encompasses more people’s shooting envelop than they’re willing to admit. I’d bet a lot of photographers asking for more eg. DR can’t even maximise what they have already. Nothing wrong with wanting more and having more leeway to play with but it’s totally different from claiming a particular format doesn’t have enough x, y or z which I see far too often in online forums.

Just go with what makes you happy and have no regrets. The last thing you want is using gear you’re not happy with.

 

[Pitachu]

Yep, all brands of camera bodies loses their value over the years.
My brother who has a team that shoot events, just bought a Canon EOS 7D for S$300 only to replace a Canon 80D (which did not last more than 2 years).
And as Canon churns out more and more RF lenses, I know a few retired photographers who go around picking L senses at very good prices.
No, I am not putting any brand down, even M43 equipment depreciate in value pretty fast. eg. Panasonic G9, the used selling price was about half of what I sold my G9 a few years ago.

Every camera brand and model have its advantages and disadvantages. Just list out your prioriry eg. Resolution, Dynamic Range, weight of camera body and lenses etc and get the one you find most fitting to your priorities.

When I first started with Digital Cameras, I too was caught up in the chase for higher and higher resolution. It is only when I started to post process my photos then I realized that all the extra resolution are useless and actually slow down my work flow. As I mentioned, 20mp is more than enough for my needs.

@Limberg
My advice if you’re not too deep in a system is to just buy for now. Don’t worry too much about the future but also don’t fomo about equipment.
These camera and lenses aren’t meant to be financial investments (in the sense of expecting appreciation), just be happy that it actually holds some value when/if it comes to selling it.
Well, for bodies it sometimes drops to close to nothing but usually there are some residual value.
But measure the value in terms of usage. If you use it often and it brings you joy, it’ll be good value regardless.

So I wouldn’t worry too much about OMD and m43’s future. It’s a mature system so you can already see what you get in the system. It’s not going to change drastically year on year, probably 1-2 lenses at most per major manufacturer per year and sometimes only rehashed versions of older designs and maybe a flurry of body models with generational changes.
If the systems fits you the best now, then go for it. Buy second hand if budget is a big issue.

Even for the newer systems like Canon RF and Nikon Z, the period of rapid expansion is mostly over. It’ll slow to perhaps something similar to Sony’s release schedule in the coming years even with their larger market share.
Of course you do get more third party market support when you have a larger market share.

Finally, m43 is really very capable and probably encompasses more people’s shooting envelop than they’re willing to admit. I’d bet a lot of photographers asking for more eg. DR can’t even maximise what they have already. Nothing wrong with wanting more and having more leeway to play with but it’s totally different from claiming a particular format doesn’t have enough x, y or z which I see far too often in online forums.

Just go with what makes you happy and have no regrets. The last thing you want is using gear you’re not happy with.

 

[swifty]

Yep, all brands of camera bodies loses their value over the years.
My brother who has a team that shoot events, just bought a Canon EOS 7D for S$300 only to replace a Canon 80D (which did not last more than 2 years).
And as Canon churns out more and more RF lenses, I know a few retired photographers who go around picking L senses at very good prices.
No, I am not putting any brand down, even M43 equipment depreciate in value pretty fast. eg. Panasonic G9, the used selling price was about half of what I sold my G9 a few years ago.

Every camera brand and model have its advantages and disadvantages. Just list out your prioriry eg. Resolution, Dynamic Range, weight of camera body and lenses etc and get the one you find most fitting to your priorities.

When I first started with Digital Cameras, I too was caught up in the chase for higher and higher resolution. It is only when I started to post process my photos then I realized that all the extra resolution are useless and actually slow down my work flow. As I mentioned, 20mp is more than enough for my needs.

I wasn’t directing my response at you or anyone in particular btw.
Was just giving my pov for Limberg’s question.

 

[one eye jack]

Sony has preempted canon's R1 for the Olympics. Sony has thrown the challenge or really going to dominate the photography industry with their global shutter. A consolation for OMDS as it introduced the procapture/ preburst/ preshoot first that man who shoot raw raves. Now other camera companies that does not make their own sensors will only be second tier from now on. A9iii will only be a dream to most of us. But we make do with what we got.

 

[Limberg]

Thank you all for the advice. One more doubt, am I too late to upgrade to OM-1 based on the following history:
OM-1 Mark II to be announced in Feb 2024?
OM-1 announced in Feb 2022
E-M1 Mark III announced in Feb 2020
E-M1X announced in Jan 2019
E-M1 Mark II announced in Dec 2016
E-M1 announced in Sep 2013

 

[swifty]

I highly doubt you'd see a OM-1 II anytime soon. It uses a sensor that's not appeared in any other m43 product yet (that I know of), so I'd expect it might permeate other models before you see an update to the OM-1.
As for new m43 sensors, I only know of the G9 II sensor which would be a lateral move so I can't see OMD changing sensors for the sake of change. The quad-AF in the OM-1 is something unique and is something OMD should work further on.
New processing engine (which would be a big deal in mirrorless cameras) perhaps but with m43 volumes the way they are, I don't expect very frequent updates.

 

[Limberg]

Just to complete the picture, woke up early to compile. Lol

 

[swifty]

Nice work. You’d need to juxtapose that table with ILC volumes to get a better picture of the current state of consumer photography though.

 

[swifty]

Also in brackets you might want to add the cameras on the 12MP, 16MP and 20Mp non-stacked sensor generation and the current 20MP stacked sensor generation.

 

[Limberg]

Nice work. You’d need to juxtapose that table with ILC volumes to get a better picture of the current state of consumer photography though.

Not sure how sales volume of the whole genre of interchangeable lens camera (ILC) helps. Where is the website link?

 

[Limberg]

Also in brackets you might want to add the cameras on the 12MP, 16MP and 20Mp non-stacked sensor generation and the current 20MP stacked sensor generation.

 

[swifty]

Not sure how sales volume of the whole genre of interchangeable lens camera (ILC) helps. Where is the website link?

There are a number of sources but CIPA numbers might be a good enough proxy.
It’s just to show the big swing in overall volume that has occured in the last 10 years. With volumes still growing, you’ll tend to see more model proliferation as well as shorter intervals between updates.
It’s been collapsing the last few years, (not helped by the pandemic) but has more or less stabilised to pre-COVID levels.

 

[swifty]

So when volumes were high in a growth market (yellow) you get introductions on the left of your table spreading out right quickly into many models.
By the 20MP era, you get less models to the right of your table and trending upwards on your table (which is time) meaning greater time intervals between models.
So you can take a guess yourself how that blue sensor gen would trend. We might not see any make it to your third column.

 

[one eye jack]

@Limberg, as saying goes cameras become obsolete fast compared to good lenses. That said as I understand from your first post you wanted ,1 a travel camera that is small and light. 2 viewing 4k video on your 4k monitor. Well you can upscale HD 1080p via software to 4k now as an option.

But if you want native 4k Olympus was ahead of it's time years back with em10mk3. If they did not make the mistake of not having a flippy screen and external microphone jack it would have sold well. See the videos if it brings a smile on your 4k monitor although it is compressed YouTube file. First video is shot with kit lens and with in - camera settings. Canon and Nikon now offers autofocus tracking when Olympus had it back then with em10mk3.
Canon offers R10, R50 and R100 with reduced features and NO IBIS ! EM10MK3 has it.

Video professionally created.

The absolutely mega Olympus E-M10 III - Oversampled 4.6K no crop 5 axis IBIS for $500! - EOSHD.com - Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews

Original file is available to download on Vimeo (click the video title above). Want the absolute best cheap low-end camera for 4K shooting? You’re looking at it. I think the E-M10 III at $500 might just be the best value for money 4K camera now available, but it’s easy to lose sight of that...

www.eoshd.com

 

[Pitachu]

I personally think OM Systems are not ready to release a OM-1 Mk2 in 2024 unless the have something to WOW the world. Currently what they have is
1) a newly patented astro focus system
2) maybe access to Panasonic new 25mp sensor

I don't think the above is enough to woo its customers.

OM System need to improve its current continuous AF and subject identification AI too.

I think 2025 is probably a better target date for the OM-1 Mk2

View attachment 113908

So when volumes were high in a growth market (yellow) you get introductions on the left of your table spreading out right quickly into many models.
By the 20MP era, you get less models to the right of your table and trending upwards on your table (which is time) meaning greater time intervals between models.
So you can take a guess yourself how that blue sensor gen would trend. We might not see any make it to your third column.

 

[Pitachu]

Ha Ha got to retract what I have just said on OM system have no significant technology to woo new customers to the OM-1 Mk2.

Not that every M43 user need the 47mp but for years FF wildlife shooters have been using their high res sensor to crop in to compensate the lack of focal multiplier compared to M43. Having a high res sensor will allow M43 users to do the same too.

No.... I am not buying, just imagining on the usage.

Reminder: There is a Sony 47MP MFT sensor that OM Digital and Panasonic could use on future products – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[swifty]

I think sensor quality are already quite good in m43.
Next release might be a mid or lower tiered model updated to Truepic X. Might not make the jump to the OM-1 sensor for cost reasons.
But an OM-5 II as a mini OM-1 could be quite popular for the m43 core base.

For improved pixel density, we’re at 80-100MP FF equivalent in m43, which Fuji and Canon are now matching with the other APS-C makers approaching it.
47MP m43 will put it way out ahead again but that’s a lot of data to handle. Mind you OM-1’s sensor is a quad-Bayer so there’s actually 4x or around 80MP worth of photosites on that sensor. How the processor is addressing all those photosites however, I don’t know.