what is the limitation of a DSLR video


Snooze

New Member
I am wondering if a DSLR Video has the potential to win a professional videocam in terms of colours and details etc?
What is the potential of such devices and limitations compared to a Pro Camcorder?
I do know that fighting spider 2 was filmed with a Canon EOS-7D. There are so many gadgets around like beachtek, RedrockMicro etc to help in the production of a DSLR video. Can some1 enlighten me on the pros and cons?
 

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I think the scope of the answer to your question is quite broad, esp since the specifications of "professional videocameras" are varied depending on manufacturers. To determine the pros and cons of DSLR, it'd be easier if we know what you intend to do with it, eg what you intend to shoot, was there a need for extensive grading or vfx, and what is the final deliverable etc etc? :)
 

I think the scope of the answer to your question is quite broad, esp since the specifications of "professional videocameras" are varied depending on manufacturers. To determine the pros and cons of DSLR, it'd be easier if we know what you intend to do with it, eg what you intend to shoot, was there a need for extensive grading or vfx, and what is the final deliverable etc etc? :)

I agree. If you want to be spoonfed, at least bring the spoon! :)
 

Lets say comparing Sony HVR-Z5 or HXR-NX 5P to Canon Eos 7D and 5D mk2? I am a complete newbie in videography. Like what sort of things people will do with DSLR video and Pro cam like Sony HVR-Z5 or NX-5...
 

Hihi Snooze, I'm not quite sure the Z5 or the NX5 could be grouped under professional video cameras. Anyway, I think the line between what's pro and what's not is pretty fuzzy now, i suppose.

So anyway, let's take Z5 vs 5Dm2. Color wise, I think they are quite similar in specifications, ie. REC709 vs sRGB and both spot a 4:2:0 chroma sampling. But how each camera renders colors is quite different, because their color mapping might be different due to the different software used in each camera. In both case, pushing these color extensively would prob not reap satisfactory results, esp if done in its native codec (HDV and mpeg4 avc/h264).

Detail wise, you will see that despite both claiming to be 1080p, neither will be able to resolve 1080 lines horizontally anyway. So which is holds more details? Truth is: I dunno. But what is important here is not so much what details they can hold, but what do they do to details they cannot hold. What this boils down to is: how does the camera handles aliasing. The fact that the OLPF for 5Dm2 is more suitable for stills capture means that a lot of fine details that should resolve nicely in stills mode, do not get properly represented when in video mode. This is likely to be the fact that 5Dm2 uses some sort of line skipping or pixel binning (I'm not sure) to achieve their 1080p output from their 21mp sensor. Aliasing on the 5D is pretty obvious at full rez but it gets less distracting when the HD video is downrezzed to SD for delivery. Z5 does not have that bad of a aliasing problem because the OLPF for their sensor is optimised for it's intended output.

I personally think that now people use both types of cameras interchangeably. I see 5Ds on corporate shoots, on-air promos etc whereby most of such shoots were done mostly by the prosumer or more professional cameras. Some choose 5D or 7D for that shallow DOF look, some chose them for the quick ingesting of footages into their NLE (although now HDV can be recorded on file-based recorders too).Z5 and NX5 are great for general event coverage where you dun have to struggle with the focus as with the 5Ds and 7Ds and risk missing an important shot. Others chose the HDV footage because it's better supported via multiple platform.

All in all, there are many differences between each type of cameras that warrants serious considerations before choosing them. Some of their features are things we have to work around with, like add third party hardware support or an extra step to sync sound etc, to make the production or post production a little less painful. As of now, there are tonnes of innovations, new firmwares and new solutions that are coming up to "fix" these challenges and thus i believe it's hard to be comprehensive in our discussion. Also i realised that you want to know more about each type of cameras, not because you have an upcoming assignment that needs you to choose either type, but simply because you are just interested. Without knowing your intended usage of the cameras, it's hard to restrict a boundary and make meaningful comparisons in terms of pros and cons. I hope you understand. :)
 

Hihi Snooze, I'm not quite sure the Z5 or the NX5 could be grouped under professional video cameras. Anyway, I think the line between what's pro and what's not is pretty fuzzy now, i suppose.

So anyway, let's take Z5 vs 5Dm2. Color wise, I think they are quite similar in specifications, ie. REC709 vs sRGB and both spot a 4:2:0 chroma sampling. But how each camera renders colors is quite different, because their color mapping might be different due to the different software used in each camera. In both case, pushing these color extensively would prob not reap satisfactory results, esp if done in its native codec (HDV and mpeg4 avc/h264).

Detail wise, you will see that despite both claiming to be 1080p, neither will be able to resolve 1080 lines horizontally anyway. So which is holds more details? Truth is: I dunno. But what is important here is not so much what details they can hold, but what do they do to details they cannot hold. What this boils down to is: how does the camera handles aliasing. The fact that the OLPF for 5Dm2 is more suitable for stills capture means that a lot of fine details that should resolve nicely in stills mode, do not get properly represented when in video mode. This is likely to be the fact that 5Dm2 uses some sort of line skipping or pixel binning (I'm not sure) to achieve their 1080p output from their 21mp sensor. Aliasing on the 5D is pretty obvious at full rez but it gets less distracting when the HD video is downrezzed to SD for delivery. Z5 does not have that bad of a aliasing problem because the OLPF for their sensor is optimised for it's intended output.

I personally think that now people use both types of cameras interchangeably. I see 5Ds on corporate shoots, on-air promos etc whereby most of such shoots were done mostly by the prosumer or more professional cameras. Some choose 5D or 7D for that shallow DOF look, some chose them for the quick ingesting of footages into their NLE (although now HDV can be recorded on file-based recorders too).Z5 and NX5 are great for general event coverage where you dun have to struggle with the focus as with the 5Ds and 7Ds and risk missing an important shot. Others chose the HDV footage because it's better supported via multiple platform.

All in all, there are many differences between each type of cameras that warrants serious considerations before choosing them. Some of their features are things we have to work around with, like add third party hardware support or an extra step to sync sound etc, to make the production or post production a little less painful. As of now, there are tonnes of innovations, new firmwares and new solutions that are coming up to "fix" these challenges and thus i believe it's hard to be comprehensive in our discussion. Also i realised that you want to know more about each type of cameras, not because you have an upcoming assignment that needs you to choose either type, but simply because you are just interested. Without knowing your intended usage of the cameras, it's hard to restrict a boundary and make meaningful comparisons in terms of pros and cons. I hope you understand. :)

I'm Impressed with your technical know how. With your explaination i am pretty clear what is going on. To be frank i am interested to knw the technology behind both type of cameras.
The limitation on each side. During NAB 2010, i saw on you tube, many manufacturer are producing so many related tools for HD DSLR. I even saw a clip of a jib for 5D mk2 from steadicam. it look so impressive. That's why i am researching on this topic. Hope u can teach me more about such things. I am very interested to hear you out.
 

wow, i didnt know that FIghting Spider was shot on 7D... thanks for sharing.

yeah, can the mod make this into a sticky?
 

This might give you an idea of the capabilities of dslr for video usage - http://www.zacuto.com/shootout

you should watch both the webisode 1 & 2 and be amazed by the dslrs.
 

Hey, the shootout was indeed very informative. I just hope they'd release the 3rd episode soon! :)

It also goes to show that in the right hands, most of the challenges of these cameras (or any camera, really) can be overcome easily, if you know what you are doing! At the end of the day, we just have to decide on the right tool for the job, and ensure that it's all based on informed decisions. Actually I have a "good friend" which I turn to to start making inroads to gaining some useful information, and his name is.... GOOGLE. :D
 

One really good thing about DSLRs vs shoulder mounted professional video cameras is the size. If I'm not wrong, one of those video camera can weight about 4kg+ with a lens, viewfinder and battery and the length and the size makes it really hard to get into tight spaces or awkward angles. The DSLR on the other hand is just slightly bigger than the battery of the pro cameras which allows new angles that were difficult to achieve previously.

Now as the cameras are so light, support can be lighter. You need a medium sized Steadicam to fly the pro sized cameras. Now you can even use a Merlin to fly the DSLRs.
 

Whoa! Amazing footage. The city of lakes footage was pretty impressive. Totally blown away by it. The gears they were using was very cool as well!!
I think the future for DSLR video is bright! The colours of the videos was amazing!
 

quick dump all the Expensive video cameras..... a single CMOS camera can beat broadcast cameras...... QUICK throw em away b4 theres no garbage bin left...... :p
 

Looks like i have to buy bigger rubbish bin. LOL.
I believe something in DSLR is still not comparable with a standard Video camera. For now i guess DSLR is picking up only. I wonder if they will integrate SDI into DSLR or provide a chroma sampling of 4:2:2? LOL. I am wondering how it will impact the whole world. Just some noob thinking. Haha. Here is another link to share with all

http://www.stevemimsfilms.com/Site/honorarium.html
 

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If want to take pictures get a dslr, if want to do video, get a video camera... Both were built with specific purposes, i mean if i'm not wrong which i may be, proper video cameras come with around 3 ccd's in them, and they cost a bomb. I just feel the video function is just a marketing gimmick. Thats just my opinion..
 

If want to take pictures get a dslr, if want to do video, get a video camera... Both were built with specific purposes, i mean if i'm not wrong which i may be, proper video cameras come with around 3 ccd's in them, and they cost a bomb. I just feel the video function is just a marketing gimmick. Thats just my opinion..

I used to had your thinking as well but after i did more research, this technology is getting popular with a lot of directors and production house. One thing is most Camcorder can't produce the film like looks, while DSLR manage to achieve it. For most camcorder to achieve the film like look, they have to buy letus 35mm adapter which enable users to use various DSLR lenses to achieve the film looks.
Still the down side of DSLR is short video time. 12 mins max for 5d Mk2.
I The final season of house will be film on 5D mk 2 too. i myself also don't know where this industry is heading towards. Confuse too
 

I used to had your thinking as well but after i did more research, this technology is getting popular with a lot of directors and production house. One thing is most Camcorder can't produce the film like looks, while DSLR manage to achieve it. For most camcorder to achieve the film like look, they have to buy letus 35mm adapter which enable users to use various DSLR lenses to achieve the film looks.
Still the down side of DSLR is short video time. 12 mins max for 5d Mk2.
I The final season of house will be film on 5D mk 2 too. i myself also don't know where this industry is heading towards. Confuse too

Actually i was thinking more along the lines of these kinda video cam's....
Those that will cost much more then our dslr..

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=361001&catGroupId=112502&surfModel=AG-HMC40
 

Actually i was thinking more along the lines of these kinda video cam's....
Those that will cost much more then our dslr..

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=361001&catGroupId=112502&surfModel=AG-HMC40

i think that's a Pro consumer model.. If u wanna see Professional camera i guess u can start from Sony PMW EX3 or EX1 onwards. Still PMW EX1 and EX3 still rely on 35mm adaptor to get the film like look which DSLR dont need but those pro camera has interface that DSLR doesn't have. Now i myself are learning more about all these camcorders. There is a lot of things to learn in Camcorder as compared to DSLR but it is interesting to learn more. :)
 

"Film look", to me, is a rather confusing term, because films can look very different. Super8mm films looks "filmic" (for a lack of better word), like 35mm does in its own way. Different people holds different opinions of what the "film look" is about. It's, however, not a fault to aspire towards the traditional film characteristics or aka "film look" when we use digital cameras. The former is in many ways still aesthetically more superior, imho. :)
 

"Film look", to me, is a rather confusing term, because films can look very different. Super8mm films looks "filmic" (for a lack of better word), like 35mm does in its own way. Different people holds different opinions of what the "film look" is about. It's, however, not a fault to aspire towards the traditional film characteristics or aka "film look" when we use digital cameras. The former is in many ways still aesthetically more superior, imho. :)

Yeah i am confuse with the term film looks as well. perhaps they meant the bokeh? Can u explain more to me? i would love to learn more about it.
 

Yeah i am confuse with the term film looks as well. perhaps they meant the bokeh? Can u explain more to me? i would love to learn more about it.

What a lot of people mean by film look is the shallow depth of field that 35mm adapters and DSLRs can achieve easily. This is due to the bigger sensors involved which have much less crop factor than you find on a videocam.
 

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