What is a wedding uncle bob?

[sjackal]

Chill man...
TS made some perfectly valid points at the start of the thread, but it seems to have derailed into something personal.
The fact is:
There are obnoxious hobbyist photographers who affect the outcome of the wedding photography negatively. There are also incompetent 'paid' (don't know if 'professional' aptly describes them) photographers who accept peanuts and deliver rubbish, as well as behaving boorishly.

Whatever your friend experienced was unfortunate, but take a step back and cool off. Do refrain from all the name-calling.
My experience with professional wedding photographers so far has been pleasant to say the least. Not once have i seen them physically or verbally abuse an Uncle Bob.

The fact is: as more and more people take up photography as a hobby, it is likely we'll see more enthusiastic guests at weddings. This thread is simply to raise awareness that such behaviour exists, and hopefully ideas will surface on how to deal with these types of situations in a cordial manner.

Exactly. At the same time, we also see more enthusiastic young shooters entering the industry. They might be the same ego charged people as the ego charged uncle bobs? Thus hopefully this thread will promote some kind of mutual understanding and respect for one's ricebowl and the other's hobby too.

This is a good and valid thread, I hate to see it go south when posters posts to win a verbal argument sacrificing the thread's good message get diluted.

 

[sjackal]

First, ah lian/auntie quarreling on MRT train, then old men on fighting on the bus, next, pros and uncle bobs jostling and shouting at a wedding?

Unless the bride/groom are celebrities where there will be restrictions, no one says only pros can take photos at weddings. Only 'bobs' who are close relatives' or friends will ever bother to bring their own cameras for any weddings, so what right does the pros have to offend them? If the pro feels that it is beneath him to be fighting for space with bob or that his pictures are not going to be better, then he should not be there in the first place. Shouldn't he be using his professional skill to get the special angle or shot that the ordinary joe cannot see? In any case, he should be thankful that he is the only one getting paid for the job. At the last wedding I attended, 2 young wedding photographers with pro-looking cameras wearing vests with loud logos were staying put and waiting for the couples to move near them before they bother to take any pictures while the bobs were busy moving around capturing the event and enjoying themselves. So much for professionalism. Let's see if the pro can live it down if a nasty incident between pro and bob should occur to spoil the wedding couple's special day, regardless of who started it.

I think you are referring to CanonG's story about his friend. Which is an unfortunate incident but majority of the wedding photographers are not like that. I cannot imaging anyone with aggressive attitudes staying in the business long. Uncle bobs shooting excessive are indeed to the detrimental of the final results of the wedding photography and it is understood by the wedding couples too. Asking the professionals to use their professional skills to get special angles that ordinary joes cannot see, is not a fair statement nor it is practical, because there are some basic crucial shots to cover and its good shooting position and space are only so little. In additional, with the exception of those couples without much choices, most couples probably select their wedding photographer because they want him/her, not the other guests or relatives shooting.

 

[sjackal]

It's not so much about the pro feeling that it is beneath him to jostle for space, but rather that he or she was paid (by the wedding couple) to do a job, and the interference of Uncle Bob would likely be to the detriment of that.
You don't see parents tagging along with their children when they are engaged in a learning activity (e.g. driving lessons) and being back-seat driver, do you? The point is that the driving instructor is paid to do a job, so should be given the appropriate environment to accomplish it.

Yes exactly and you worded it very well.

I find the chef analogy relates very well to photographers. If I hire a chef for my restaurant's kitchen, I should accord him the proper cooperation, space and authority that he need to perform his job and make things work. That is the way to reap maximum benefits from his potential.

 

[CanonG]

As said earlier, I am just upset when TS is trying to twist the points I have made, over and over again.

Just to state for the 3rd time, I am not supportive for the uncle bob. Just want to say there are photographers who brand everyone who are holding a dslr a uncle bob. In a nutshell, the example I quoted earlier was a rouge shooter who went out of his way to block the hobbyist to shoot.

To me, as long as the hobbyist gives the main shooter ample room to work (ie a lot of room to move around, move back, etc) and does not affect him in any way, it is fine.

Priority should be still given to the main shooter.

Then again, this is my opinion, you can also disagree also.

I simply repeated and summarized my point so someone will not purposely twist what I said again.

Exactly. At the same time, we also see more enthusiastic young shooters entering the industry. They might be the same ego charged people as the ego charged uncle bobs? Thus hopefully this thread will promote some kind of mutual understanding and respect for one's ricebowl and the other's hobby too.

This is a good and valid thread, I hate to see it go south when posters posts to win a verbal argument sacrificing the thread's good message get diluted.

 

[Kit-Kat-Lover]

First, ah lian/auntie quarreling on MRT train, then old men on fighting on the bus, next, pros and uncle bobs jostling and shouting at a wedding?

Unless the bride/groom are celebrities where there will be restrictions, no one says only pros can take photos at weddings. Only 'bobs' who are close relatives' or friends will ever bother to bring their own cameras for any weddings, so what right does the pros have to offend them? If the pro feels that it is beneath him to be fighting for space with bob or that his pictures are not going to be better, then he should not be there in the first place. Shouldn't he be using his professional skill to get the special angle or shot that the ordinary joe cannot see? In any case, he should be thankful that he is the only one getting paid for the job. At the last wedding I attended, 2 young wedding photographers with pro-looking cameras wearing vests with loud logos were staying put and waiting for the couples to move near them before they bother to take any pictures while the bobs were busy moving around capturing the event and enjoying themselves. So much for professionalism. Let's see if the pro can live it down if a nasty incident between pro and bob should occur to spoil the wedding couple's special day, regardless of who started it.

Er .. Its hard to tell if they are professional enough until you seen their photo. If they know what they want to capture in the wedding, they dun have to shoot non stop and all the different angles, it may be 1 shot 1 kill to capture the moment, putting all together to create a wonderful story of the day.. We may not undestand a pro workflow and shooting style, non do we determine his professionalism by the no of shoot he taken.

A full time pro never cause trouble in a wedding, its like breaking his own rice bowl, even the uncle bob tekan him. Its up to the pro's experience to adjust himself to capture the important shot ( its a lot harder for videographer, but it can be done if you know from experience where this incle bob will appear ).

From my own experience, if i have no way to handle uncle bob, well just speak to the wedding couple, i believe they will speak nicely to uncle bob and tell him to stop shooting. Rather than you keep quiet and end of the day cant produce the work to your client and ruin their wedding day. I remember there was this wedding where the bride' 3 colleague came in the morning makeup session .. U imaging 3 of them plus me photographer and videographer in a small hdb room, how to shoot .. Haha ... The bride pose until she herself sian already .. I no need to say anything she ask them to stop interrupting ..

 

[Shizuma]

end of the day it's about respect. respect which goes both ways. for the guests to respect the professional shooters at work ( regardless of the guests own skills level ) , and respect from the professional shooters for the guests who are documenting a once in lifetime moment for their loved ones.

I guess this what's everyone's looking for

 

[Kit-Kat-Lover]

The issue is uncle bob have no respect in the first place, .. No offence ..

 

[kei1309]

The issue is uncle bob have no respect in the first place, .. No offence ..

not all Uncle Bobs do it intentionally. some really are over zealous and forget that they've got no right to interfere

 

[Kit-Kat-Lover]

For a young 20yrs + uncle bob, i agree he is zealous, for a mature 30yrs and above one, i can only say he is too selfish in proving himself while disturbing the pro at work ..

I always take it easy, when uncle bob is around, it make me work my brain more .. to produce more artistic photos which i normally would not try shooting ..

 

[avsquare]

It's not so much about the pro feeling that it is beneath him to jostle for space, but rather that he or she was paid (by the wedding couple) to do a job, and the interference of Uncle Bob would likely be to the detriment of that.
You don't see parents tagging along with their children when they are engaged in a learning activity (e.g. driving lessons) and being back-seat driver, do you? The point is that the driving instructor is paid to do a job, so should be given the appropriate environment to accomplish it.

very nice way to put it simply.

 

[kei1309]

to produce more artistic photos which i normally would not try shooting ..

but still you have to confront your demons if "Artistic" photos are not what the couple wants right?

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

Yes exactly and you worded it very well.

I find the chef analogy relates very well to photographers. If I hire a chef for my restaurant's kitchen, I should accord him the proper cooperation, space and authority that he need to perform his job and make things work. That is the way to reap maximum benefits from his potential.

The chef analogy is a good one :thumbsup:

I often wonder why the Uncle Bobs try to capture similar shots to the paid photographer (e.g. couple walking down the aisle, or even the group photo at the table. Presumably the wedding couple will get the photos from the photographer, so what purpose is there in trying to capture the same, or very similar image as the paid photog? Unless Uncle Bob is trying to outdo the paid photog, I can't really think of any other reason... Might as well just enjoy the evening.

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

very nice way to put it simply.

haha thanks.

 

[TWmilkteaTW]

The chef analogy is a good one :thumbsup:

I often wonder why the Uncle Bobs try to capture similar shots to the paid photographer (e.g. couple walking down the aisle, or even the group photo at the table. Presumably the wedding couple will get the photos from the photographer, so what purpose is there in trying to capture the same, or very similar image as the paid photog? Unless Uncle Bob is trying to outdo the paid photog, I can't really think of any other reason... Might as well just enjoy the evening.

Why uncle bob always/will try to shoot the same photo as the pro?

Hmm..let me guess..ill say.. because they are very enthusiastic people full of love and excitement for photography..(if not why they are being call uncle bob anyways), but they know it themselves they are not pro..so they tend to look and try to follows what the pro do or shoot (because they know the pro are/will be better or they are just curious what the pro do etc etc).

So now if the uncle bob shoots something a pro shoots.. (he can post as his own photos) and people might go WOW..because the uncle bob will not usually shoot with the composition if he weren't following/taking the same shot as the pro. And he feels good.. because people wont know if he is a uncle bob/following a pro around to get that shot.

 

[JinG14]

Can't u just photoshop uncle bob away ? That I'd my friend reply when I am helping him as a 2nd photographer in his wedding.

 

[avsquare]

Can't u just photoshop uncle bob away ? That I'd my friend reply when I am helping him as a 2nd photographer in his wedding.

Do you know NOT everything can be photoshopped away? If the distraction takes up too much space, or happens to be in a critical position that makes photoshop difficult, it isn't possible or feasible to photoshop it away. Cropping may not be an option because composition may look weird.

You always try to get it right in cam instead of wasting time with needless post processing. And of the uncle bob is extreme, it is not a joke to fix 50 or more spoilt photos.

 

[JinG14]

Yes of course I know dude..sweating when I heard this kind of suggestion.

 

[catchlights]

Can't u just photoshop uncle bob away ? That I'd my friend reply when I am helping him as a 2nd photographer in his wedding.

tell your friend, yes, photoshop can do it, but can your friend afford the cost of hiring professional DI artist?

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

Why uncle bob always/will try to shoot the same photo as the pro?

Hmm..let me guess..ill say.. because they are very enthusiastic people full of love and excitement for photography..(if not why they are being call uncle bob anyways), but they know it themselves they are not pro..so they tend to look and try to follows what the pro do or shoot (because they know the pro are/will be better or they are just curious what the pro do etc etc).

So now if the uncle bob shoots something a pro shoots.. (he can post as his own photos) and people might go WOW..because the uncle bob will not usually shoot with the composition if he weren't following/taking the same shot as the pro. And he feels good.. because people wont know if he is a uncle bob/following a pro around to get that shot.

Whilst I wouldn't disagree with the points you've raised, you do have an awfully cynical viewpoint

Would be interested to hear if there are effective yet cordial measures that can be taken to "nullify" (for lack of a better term) Uncle Bob during critical moments of the wedding celebration

 

[sjackal]

Can't u just photoshop uncle bob away ? That I'd my friend reply when I am helping him as a 2nd photographer in his wedding.

No.

The latest algorithms of Photoshop's Content Aware technology are smart - but only if the scene is easy. In most wedding situations, the scenes are often complex with differing textures, tones and colors. The computer simply cannot differential what is what and the auto patching done is often a mess up mix of nonsense. IT IS A MANUAL JOB and to do it naturally and tell-tale-proof, takes a lot of detailed and delicate work. Even with the latest version of Photoshop in the hands of the most skillful digital manipulator, removing items and altering scenes is still a manual, a few pixels, by a few pixels, type of time consuming work. Looks unnatural, redo. Again and again.

Suddenly 4 hours passed, and you are still at the same picture. There are still thousands of pictures from the same wedding still pending edit. And there are several more weddings backlog pending and more future weddings lined up. I charge my client $100 per picture and I still think I undercharged. It takes me about 2 to 3 hours of retouching work per picture.

Hope this answers your question.