What do you think about being a Budget photographer?

[surrephoto]

I know of a guy who charged $12.00 per hours for wedding shoot and now > $1k for 10 hours. Not exactly very high yet, but his price went up quite a bit under a reasonable amount of time

It's really about the person, apart from the idea or method of doing it and how you manage your client, in my opinion.

Oh ya, one more thing, maybe he got the time to afford to slowly build up. He was a poly student and now serving NS.

If we are talking about the same person, he managed his $12 / Hr couples/events very well and increased price incrementally in each referral and transition. If he charges the next friend-of-couple-or-bride $15 / hr, and $20 / hr subsequently, I'm sure a number gave in since he has gained experienced. Don't forget he can still choose to keep the price at $15 / hr if the assignment interests him (or if the couple is exceptionally beautiful/handsome etc... good for portfolio).

And because he charged that little, he had all sorts of clients... SMEs, MNCs, ROMs, weddings, ang-moh, or-moh, schools, restaurants, everything. Because he had a very good attitude and took the chance in his $12 - $30 / hr days to absorb as much experience as possible, he was able to increase price swiftly.

Tell me guys, alot of people charge cheap, but how many photographers got the right attitude and do not under-deliver simply because they charge cheap? This is why this fella suceeded. It is not just about pricing. Passion does play a part.

I have kakis who tell me "I won't do a wedding at less than 1k" or "not worth my time to do", but come on, if you don't have experience & skill may I ask which client/couple will be willing to be your guinea pig? The days of tag-along & master-protege relationships are over because people are far most egotistic these days. This fella's (my friend's) story comes into mind and most of my stubborn kaki & acquaintances tend to ALT-F4 such conversations in a jiffy. To me it all boils down to attitude, PR skills, presentation & customer service. Pricing is just a reflection of your own self-worth, if one prices themselves cheaply for the sake of it & under-delivers because they are bitter about that it simply means they have yet learn to accept themselves. If anyone of you has this problem, I suggest putting down the dream/commitment of freelance photography as full-time or part-time work for a while; travel and shoot some street-life & landscapes, or anything you used to like to shoot... sit down again after a few weeks or months & think about whether photography as work is really for you. Soul searching is vital.

 

[ALFREDC]

If we are talking about the same person, he managed his $12 / Hr couples/events very well and increased price incrementally in each referral and transition. If he charges the next friend-of-couple-or-bride $15 / hr, and $20 / hr subsequently, I'm sure a number gave in since he has gained experienced. Don't forget he can still choose to keep the price at $15 / hr if the assignment interests him (or if the couple is exceptionally beautiful/handsome etc... good for portfolio).

And because he charged that little, he had all sorts of clients... SMEs, MNCs, ROMs, weddings, ang-moh, or-moh, schools, restaurants, everything. Because he had a very good attitude and took the chance in his $12 - $30 / hr days to absorb as much experience as possible, he was able to increase price swiftly.

Tell me guys, alot of people charge cheap, but how many photographers got the right attitude and do not under-deliver simply because they charge cheap? This is why this fella suceeded. It is not just about pricing. Passion does play a part.

I have kakis who tell me "I won't do a wedding at less than 1k" or "not worth my time to do", but come on, if you don't have experience & skill may I ask which client/couple will be willing to be your guinea pig? The days of tag-along & master-protege relationships are over because people are far most egotistic these days. This fella's (my friend's) story comes into mind and most of my stubborn kaki & acquaintances tend to ALT-F4 such conversations in a jiffy. To me it all boils down to attitude, PR skills, presentation & customer service. Pricing is just a reflection of your own self-worth, if one prices themselves cheaply for the sake of it & under-delivers because they are bitter about that it simply means they have yet learn to accept themselves. If anyone of you has this problem, I suggest putting down the dream/commitment of freelance photography as full-time or part-time work for a while; travel and shoot some street-life & landscapes, or anything you used to like to shoot... sit down again after a few weeks or months & think about whether photography as work is really for you. Soul searching is vital.

Thanx, saw and cannot control laugh till my coffee spit out over my screen.

Lucky got this kind of photographer. Savior to SMEs. More should follow his example so we can all save the money to buy pet food instead.

 

[PinkMenPrints]

If we are talking about the same person, he managed his $12 / Hr couples/events very well and increased price incrementally in each referral and transition. If he charges the next friend-of-couple-or-bride $15 / hr, and $20 / hr subsequently, I'm sure a number gave in since he has gained experienced. Don't forget he can still choose to keep the price at $15 / hr if the assignment interests him (or if the couple is exceptionally beautiful/handsome etc... good for portfolio).

And because he charged that little, he had all sorts of clients... SMEs, MNCs, ROMs, weddings, ang-moh, or-moh, schools, restaurants, everything. Because he had a very good attitude and took the chance in his $12 - $30 / hr days to absorb as much experience as possible, he was able to increase price swiftly.

Tell me guys, alot of people charge cheap, but how many photographers got the right attitude and do not under-deliver simply because they charge cheap? This is why this fella suceeded. It is not just about pricing. Passion does play a part.

I have kakis who tell me "I won't do a wedding at less than 1k" or "not worth my time to do", but come on, if you don't have experience & skill may I ask which client/couple will be willing to be your guinea pig? The days of tag-along & master-protege relationships are over because people are far most egotistic these days. This fella's (my friend's) story comes into mind and most of my stubborn kaki & acquaintances tend to ALT-F4 such conversations in a jiffy. To me it all boils down to attitude, PR skills, presentation & customer service. Pricing is just a reflection of your own self-worth, if one prices themselves cheaply for the sake of it & under-delivers because they are bitter about that it simply means they have yet learn to accept themselves. If anyone of you has this problem, I suggest putting down the dream/commitment of freelance photography as full-time or part-time work for a while; travel and shoot some street-life & landscapes, or anything you used to like to shoot... sit down again after a few weeks or months & think about whether photography as work is really for you. Soul searching is vital.

If the person really really can charge low and take pride in delivering a great product , I think the person should not be too egoistic to follow an experienced hand ...

And seriously $12 and hour photographer ? And slowing increasing to $15 and then $20 ...

Hell shoot one whole day price increases from $120 to $150 to $200 and have to "persuade" the client to accept such rates ?
I am having a headache ...

 

[surrephoto]

If the person really really can charge low and take pride in delivering a great product , I think the person should not be too egoistic to follow an experienced hand ...

And seriously $12 and hour photographer ? And slowing increasing to $15 and then $20 ...

Hell shoot one whole day price increases from $120 to $150 to $200 and have to "persuade" the client to accept such rates ?
I am having a headache ...

The things of today are at times hard to accept & understand. What he did was not the best of interests to other people, but it worked for him. I'd say take it as a case-study.

 

[sjackal]

Case study? Study this:

"The crucial point is where these two men differ.

To put it bluntly, Jason Bell has family wealth, while Peter Dench comes from a working-class background. And this means that, as a photographer, Peter struggles when the commissions dry up (which is increasingly likely, in these days of diminished editorial budgets).

And when I say “struggle”, I’m not exaggerating. In the Dench Diaries Peter confesses that he was forced, at one low point, to take a job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen – and this was after he’d won half his awards. He found that he was serving bacon sarnies to the same celebs he’d snapped a few months back. They didn’t acknowledge him.

Why does this matter? Firstly, because it tells us that photography is becoming a career for rich kids – who can endure the droughts with a hand-out from Daddy.

Anyone from a needier background need not bother. And this, I think, is rather sad, because photography used to be a great social ladder – look at the brilliant careers of working class ‘60s snappers like Bailey and McCullin. Now that social ladder has been kicked away.

But the second reason this matters, and the reason this really matters, is that what’s true of photography is also true of journalism.
Just like photography, journalism is getting ever tougher, thanks to dwindling commissions, lower salaries, and the fecundity and piracy of the internet. This means journalists, like photographers, are increasingly drawn from the haute bourgeoisie: from the class of people who can afford to take unpaid internships – the people who can hack a few years without a regular wage, because they also have a trust fund."

Full article here:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/s...-todays-columnists-and-photographers-so-posh/

 

[surrephoto]

Case study? Study this:

"The crucial point is where these two men differ.

To put it bluntly, Jason Bell has family wealth, while Peter Dench comes from a working-class background. And this means that, as a photographer, Peter struggles when the commissions dry up (which is increasingly likely, in these days of diminished editorial budgets).

And when I say “struggle”, I’m not exaggerating. In the Dench Diaries Peter confesses that he was forced, at one low point, to take a job frying eggs in Capital Radio canteen – and this was after he’d won half his awards. He found that he was serving bacon sarnies to the same celebs he’d snapped a few months back. They didn’t acknowledge him.

Why does this matter? Firstly, because it tells us that photography is becoming a career for rich kids – who can endure the droughts with a hand-out from Daddy.

Anyone from a needier background need not bother. And this, I think, is rather sad, because photography used to be a great social ladder – look at the brilliant careers of working class ‘60s snappers like Bailey and McCullin. Now that social ladder has been kicked away.

But the second reason this matters, and the reason this really matters, is that what’s true of photography is also true of journalism.
Just like photography, journalism is getting ever tougher, thanks to dwindling commissions, lower salaries, and the fecundity and piracy of the internet. This means journalists, like photographers, are increasingly drawn from the haute bourgeoisie: from the class of people who can afford to take unpaid internships – the people who can hack a few years without a regular wage, because they also have a trust fund."

Full article here:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/s...-todays-columnists-and-photographers-so-posh/

I'd say this is true to some extent. But it depends on your commitments & drive. More than a few wedding photographers here are doing very well and able to command a high price. They are either truly creative or charismatic & alot are both. And yes to back-up what sjackal said many had successful careers before transiting into full-time photography, so they had good resources for start-up.

Many old-timers never charged anything more than $500 for full day wedding but have managed to raise families. One old-timer told me in mandarin "I can't keep up with the times, I don't know what is "photojournalistic", but with word of mouth & my price I can survive". Of course we can say that expenditure was lower back in the mid 90s...

 

[kei1309]

If we are talking about the same person, he managed his $12 / Hr couples/events very well and increased price incrementally in each referral and transition. If he charges the next friend-of-couple-or-bride $15 / hr, and $20 / hr subsequently, I'm sure a number gave in since he has gained experienced. Don't forget he can still choose to keep the price at $15 / hr if the assignment interests him (or if the couple is exceptionally beautiful/handsome etc... good for portfolio).

And because he charged that little, he had all sorts of clients... SMEs, MNCs, ROMs, weddings, ang-moh, or-moh, schools, restaurants, everything. Because he had a very good attitude and took the chance in his $12 - $30 / hr days to absorb as much experience as possible, he was able to increase price swiftly.

Tell me guys, alot of people charge cheap, but how many photographers got the right attitude and do not under-deliver simply because they charge cheap? This is why this fella suceeded. It is not just about pricing. Passion does play a part.

I have kakis who tell me "I won't do a wedding at less than 1k" or "not worth my time to do", but come on, if you don't have experience & skill may I ask which client/couple will be willing to be your guinea pig? The days of tag-along & master-protege relationships are over because people are far most egotistic these days. This fella's (my friend's) story comes into mind and most of my stubborn kaki & acquaintances tend to ALT-F4 such conversations in a jiffy. To me it all boils down to attitude, PR skills, presentation & customer service. Pricing is just a reflection of your own self-worth, if one prices themselves cheaply for the sake of it & under-delivers because they are bitter about that it simply means they have yet learn to accept themselves. If anyone of you has this problem, I suggest putting down the dream/commitment of freelance photography as full-time or part-time work for a while; travel and shoot some street-life & landscapes, or anything you used to like to shoot... sit down again after a few weeks or months & think about whether photography as work is really for you. Soul searching is vital.

he has the right attitude, but to me, he's just spoiling the market and telling everyone that Photography as a business is cheap.

it doesn't matter if he's moved on to commanding higher rates (ha ha ha. $30/hr? higher rates? ha ha ha)

the problem is that HIS CLIENTS who used to book his services at such a low rate will start hunting for other photographers with equally low rates.

and this perception that it's a cheap thing will never end. and when word of mouth spreads, it's even more damaging.

 

[Kit]

Just because he is doing well in that particular pricing bracket doesn't mean that others should follow his footsteps. He could be over-delivering for the price he commends but it could be his clients are willing to settle for something which matched the price tag. He could have been lucky all these while. Probably, all it takes is one indemnity claim from one of his clients to make him rethink his pricing strategy.

For what I do, there is a great difference between someone who charges $15 an hour and someone who charges $500 an image. I thank god everyday knowing that there are people who are able to tell the difference, appreciate the difference and pay the difference.

 

[Kit]

When you are doing photography for a living, you have to think beyond bringing home the bacon. There are costs associated with running the business which will land you in dire straits if you neglect them. I am assuming that he wasn't in dire straits to charge $15 an hour to begin with. If he can cover his costs with that kind of rate, I'm happy for him.

 

[Kit-Kat-Lover]

Every one have to start somewhere .. and I applaud his business sense to offer this rate.

Dun be surprise that budget photography can let u earn much more compare to pro who charges 1 to 2k per job.

 

[Kit]

Yes, those who charge less can earn more with larger volume of jobs but mind you, the risk you are exposed to is also increased. You decide if its worth it and for your own sake I hope you know enough to make that choice.

 

[edutilos-]

Well, thought this incident was relevant, so just sharing for awareness here.

https://www.facebook.com/MagicHourTravelscapes/posts/526903290734065

Kit Yoong is an excellent photographer in my opinion, and it's sad that Singh-Ray (admittedly near the top of filter brands) as a source of cost to the photographer, somehow doesn't seem to think that he deserves to earn his keep. Not sure what image they decided to go with, but for such a prominent company for photographic supplies to select images based on "cost" rather than quality.. Well, I can't help but feel that it speaks volumes about their attitude towards photographers as well.

 

[edutilos-]

I have kakis who tell me "I won't do a wedding at less than 1k" or "not worth my time to do", but come on, if you don't have experience & skill may I ask which client/couple will be willing to be your guinea pig? The days of tag-along & master-protege relationships are over because people are far most egotistic these days. This fella's (my friend's) story comes into mind and most of my stubborn kaki & acquaintances tend to ALT-F4 such conversations in a jiffy. To me it all boils down to attitude, PR skills, presentation & customer service.

I can't agree with your friend's model.

To me, the right and more ethical thing to do as a newbie is to start off as an assistant, then tag along as second photographer-cum-assistant. When he is of a certain standard, he can charge the prevailing market rates.

Are you suggesting that medical students perform surgery for a lower rate if patients are willing to chance them and use them as guinea pig? Of course a wedding is not life or death matter, but it's once-in-a-lifetime, so there are similarities there. I couldn't bring myself to shoot for any friend at any rate if I didn't think I was ready (not that I shoot any weddings, not my cup of tea).

 

[sjackal]

I'd say this is true to some extent. But it depends on your commitments & drive. More than a few wedding photographers here are doing very well and able to command a high price. They are either truly creative or charismatic & alot are both. And yes to back-up what sjackal said many had successful careers before transiting into full-time photography, so they had good resources for start-up.

Many old-timers never charged anything more than $500 for full day wedding but have managed to raise families. One old-timer told me in mandarin "I can't keep up with the times, I don't know what is "photojournalistic", but with word of mouth & my price I can survive". Of course we can say that expenditure was lower back in the mid 90s...

Errhh, what I was saying its, photographers are starving and that isn't a good thing.

 

[daredevil123]

It is only in discussions like these, we can see how sick the industry is...

 

[JasonB]

If the person really really can charge low and take pride in delivering a great product , I think the person should not be too egoistic to follow an experienced hand ...

And seriously $12 and hour photographer ? And slowing increasing to $15 and then $20 ...

Hell shoot one whole day price increases from $120 to $150 to $200 and have to "persuade" the client to accept such rates ?
I am having a headache ...

Any parents reading this thread; imagine your child pursuing this career will you teach him the "$12 dollar method" or even approved of it?

HELL NO !

Put yourself from a parents mind point of view and you will realize how heinous this idea is.

So much had been said already.

 

[Agetan]

Any parents reading this thread; imagine your child pursuing this career will you teach him the "$12 dollar method" or even approved of it?

HELL NO !

Put yourself from a parents mind point of view and you will realize how heinous this idea is.

So much had been said already.

Actually, I will be proud of my Son if he can start $12 an hour and reach more then $1000 an hour. I know where you are coming from, but I am always appreciate people who start from absolutely bottom and work themselves up to someone who lead the market.

Not the best way of doing things I must admit, but looking at determination point of view, the photographer has done well.

It takes a lot of hardwork and guts to reach that state.

Not many people can start at high level charge and not many people are willing to give the newbie a chance. So I admire people who against all odds make it big.

I was really cheap when I start 5 years ago too and I just don't see the issue with this.

Regards,

Hart

 

[sjackal]

Scroll to 0:21:10

[video=youtube_share;HNbjr6Kys5Y]http://youtu.be/HNbjr6Kys5Y[/video]

Scroll to 0:21:10

 

[JinG14]

I can't agree with your friend's model.

To me, the right and more ethical thing to do as a newbie is to start off as an assistant, then tag along as second photographer-cum-assistant. When he is of a certain standard, he can charge the prevailing market rates.

Are you suggesting that medical students perform surgery for a lower rate if patients are willing to chance them and use them as guinea pig? Of course a wedding is not life or death matter, but it's once-in-a-lifetime, so there are similarities there. I couldn't bring myself to shoot for any friend at any rate if I didn't think I was ready (not that I shoot any weddings, not my cup of tea).

In SGH, i have to pay a premium price to choose the doctor for my father operation. If i dont, they will just assign a doctor (not medical student or houseman) for it. sad world.

 

[edutilos-]

In SGH, i have to pay a premium price to choose the doctor for my father operation. If i dont, they will just assign a doctor (not medical student or houseman) for it. sad world.

That's not quite the same...