what advantage does citizens has over PR?

[night86mare]

Don't be sad, people here are just responding to the harsh reality, where the rights and benefits of a citizen diminished over time.

Think about it

The PRs and citizens are all human
They all contribute to the economy

Unless there is a really solid reason why citizens should be favoured over PRs simply because of nothing other than BIRTHRIGHT (which is a pretty iffy thing if you think about, just because a father is a good fisherman does not mean that his son will be a good one)

I don't see any reason why we should practise protectionism of our citizens in any form

Let me ask you a question:
If you were the ruler of a country, and you really could ignore all moral grounds regarding choosing your subjects

Would you rather have a loser bum who was born in your country, or someone who might possibly contribute positively even though he's foreign?

The answer is clear; it is not the place where one is born, it's what he can do for your country

 

[centuryegg]

Think about it

The PRs and citizens are all human
They all contribute to the economy

Unless there is a really solid reason why citizens should be favoured over PRs simply because of nothing other than BIRTHRIGHT (which is a pretty iffy thing if you think about, just because a father is a good fisherman does not mean that his son will be a good one)

I don't see any reason why we should practise protectionism of our citizens in any form

Let me ask you a question:
If you were the ruler of a country, and you really could ignore all moral grounds regarding choosing your subjects

Would you rather have a loser bum who was born in your country, or someone who might possibly contribute positively even though he's foreign?

The answer is clear; it is not the place where one is born, it's what he can do for your country

The only problem is that it is not about citizen or PR, human or pig. Citizens are subjected to the laws that apply to citizens like NS for one. PRs are not. In a time of crisis, Citizen will (or at least by right) stay back and defend the nation. PRs will tell you thank you so much for the good time. I think that it is your country's affairs and I as non citizen should not interfere... take care and bye!!!!!

 

[dr34mc4st3r]

The only problem is that it is not about citizen or PR, human or pig. Citizens are subjected to the laws that apply to citizens like NS for one. PRs are not. In a time of crisis, Citizen will (or at least by right) stay back and defend the nation. PRs will tell you thank you so much for the good time. I think that it is your country's affairs and I as non citizen should not interfere... take care and bye!!!!!

hasty generalisation i feel.....i dun think all PRs are like that as u described. however it will be difficult to sieve the genuine from the fake.

 

[Andy Ang]

A citizen could be the PM of Singapore but not a PR.

That's one advantage!

Well, a citizen COULD be. But at the end of the day, come to think of that... Are you sure its even opened in the first place? :dunno:

 

[centuryegg]

hasty generalisation i feel.....i dun think all PRs are like that as u described. however it will be difficult to sieve the genuine from the fake.

It is a generalisation I admit but we have to admit PR means permanent residents and we all know ourselves that there are a number that have absolute no loyalty to our country. To them we are just a very good place to work, earn money and then bye bye.

So when we say we do not want to take care of our citizens but we want to take care of PR then why do we call Singapore our Country? I wonder can I say I dont want to serve my ICT? And the arguement is aways Singaporeans are bad, are lazy.... funny last I heard it was the same lazy, bad Singaporeans that made our country so attractive to PRs from less developed nations like India and China.

 

[wind30]

Think about it

The PRs and citizens are all human
They all contribute to the economy

Unless there is a really solid reason why citizens should be favoured over PRs simply because of nothing other than BIRTHRIGHT (which is a pretty iffy thing if you think about, just because a father is a good fisherman does not mean that his son will be a good one)

I don't see any reason why we should practise protectionism of our citizens in any form

? What talk you? It is in the government's self interest to practise protectionism for its citizen. Hello? ultimately, it is the citizens who does the VOTING. In fact, the PRIMARY aim of the government is to stay in power. To accomplish this, there are many methods like force of arms, terror OR keeping the citizens happy.

Notice that the PRs are not directly involved in the equation. I am sure the *** government's efforts are all directed to keeping the citizens happy. There is nothing to gain for them in keeping the PRs happy

Basically, the present government have placed certain EXTRA obligations on citizens so are the benefits worth it? Sorry to sound sooo err... materialistic. Are the citizens happy?

 

[Andy Ang]

Are you sure all citizens got to vote? I have missed so many voting chances simply because it is a walkover. Do you think its fair that the decision of Singapore is made with only Singaporeans who stay in a few precinct that can vote?

 

[eikin]

Think about it

The PRs and citizens are all human
They all contribute to the economy

Unless there is a really solid reason why citizens should be favoured over PRs simply because of nothing other than BIRTHRIGHT (which is a pretty iffy thing if you think about, just because a father is a good fisherman does not mean that his son will be a good one)

I don't see any reason why we should practise protectionism of our citizens in any form

Let me ask you a question:
If you were the ruler of a country, and you really could ignore all moral grounds regarding choosing your subjects

Would you rather have a loser bum who was born in your country, or someone who might possibly contribute positively even though he's foreign?

The answer is clear; it is not the place where one is born, it's what he can do for your country

if Singaporeans are not important, why have Singapore? going by your logic, there's no need for a nation. Singapore should just operate like a real private limited, and all Singaporeans be treated like anyone else on this earth. there should not be any laws specifically pertaining to Singaporeans, this place is only about those who want to contribute to ... well ... this private limited.

oh yes, and there'll be a need to get rid of anyone who is a liability to the organisation, a burden to the economy. the old and weak, those who did not make it in the studies, those in debt ... ... ... all must go.

 

[zeith]

He has got a point.
A lot of our local student went overseas for tertiary education because they could not secure a place in local university.
These students kiss ass in top foreigner universities and they have to pay a hefty sum for school fee.
Our Government reserved 20% for overseas students and pays them money to study here.
After completing theirs study and bonds, they leave Singapore for greener pasture in the west.

hmm.. so if foreigners are not allowed to study in local universities, do you think those local students could secure their place in local universities? :think: if local universities conduct their selection of students like this, you'd better consider other universities.

and there are also local students leaving for greener pasture after their study and bonds..

will local univerties and institutions stand at high ranks as now, if they did not hire foreign professors, lecturers and reseachers?

will the standard of local R&D instituitions improve as fast as now, if they refused to hire qualified and experienced foreign expatriates?

all depend on supply and demand.. if local supply could not match the demand, then the supply should come from somewhere.. :dunno:

and stop comparing with japan, australia regarding their policies on foreign workers.. these countries have many things, such as, land, natural resources, man power etc that singapore doesn't have.

 

[rueyloon]

Do you realise that average HDB Singaporeans are at the mercy of PRs when comes to upgrading projects?

...

Conclusion: Our right to the subsidized room depends on the decision of the PRs.

;( ;( ;( ;(

Are you sure ? PRs don't get to vote in such situation. I'm afraid the situation is the other way around.

 

[wind30]

Are you sure all citizens got to vote? I have missed so many voting chances simply because it is a walkover. Do you think its fair that the decision of Singapore is made with only Singaporeans who stay in a few precinct that can vote?

I DID VOTE in the last election. Happy. I went around my relatives trying to canvas support too

It does sucks during election time if your GRC did not get to voted. Mine GRC was AMK GRC. Hey, if you want to vote, you can DO something about it. MOVE house lah. Places like Potong Pasir 100% can vote.

 

[Silence Sky]

you should gather your neighbours and write to the press about this.

Hello eikin:

I think it will be a waste of time. I have no confident with the Elites who interpreted the word “subsidy” to their own political advantages.

Adding insult to injury: do you know those citizens who are single are marginalized by our very own leaders?
Single cannot buy HDB flat before 35 years old. The age limit used to higher and need a joint tenant and also cannot buy unit bigger than three rooms flat.
Single cannot buy new HDB flat, can only buy from resale market.
So what is so different between a Citizen and a PR?

Is it my fault for being single? Why am I being penalized for being single? Did I not contribute to nation building, did I not pay my taxes?

 

[reachme2003]

my view on the article yesterday.

http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?t=252285&page=13

 

[wind30]

He has got a point.
A lot of our local student went overseas for tertiary education because they could not secure a place in local university.
These students kiss ass in top foreigner universities and they have to pay a hefty sum for school fee.
Our Government reserved 20% for overseas students and pays them money to study here.
After completing theirs study and bonds, they leave Singapore for greener pasture in the west.

If those students CANNOT get into local unversity, I REALLY REALLY DOUBT that they can "kick ass in top foreigner universities". Or you have a very low standard for "top foreigner university".

Seriously, I have graduated from NUS 10 years back and I still remember how the "foriegn students" have spurred me to do better. Of course there are some stupid ones, but quite a number of the top students in my year are from china or India or Malaysia, etc.

 

[cosycatus]

to set the record straight

hmm.. so if foreigners are not allowed to study in local universities, do you think those local students could secure their place in local universities? :think: if local universities conduct their selection of students like this, you'd better consider other universities.
there are quotas for locals and foreigners.
and there are also local students leaving for greener pasture after their study and bonds..

will local univerties and institutions stand at high ranks as now, if they did not hire foreign professors, lecturers and reseachers?
Actually, the ranking is not very good la. Only universities like NUS or NTU will say they are ranked 10th in the world or something on their website. Usually, people who are good dun blow their own trumpet. Alternatively, maybe u can say that our not so good ranking is due to these foreigners...whahaha

will the standard of local R&D instituitions improve as fast as now, if they refused to hire qualified and experienced foreign expatriates?
These pple come here to work, for god's sake. PR was offered to them only. No one is disputing the value of highly educated foreigners. Pple are just showing their grouse on the no so significant benefits of being a citizen

all depend on supply and demand.. if local supply could not match the demand, then the supply should come from somewhere.. :dunno:

and stop comparing with japan, australia regarding their policies on foreign workers.. these countries have many things, such as, land, natural resources, man power etc that singapore doesn't have.

But seriously, I read with great dismay that foreigners only need to pay 10% more than local student. Given the ridiculously low uni fees in singapore, 10% = $500 and they CAN take a loan for it. Will that make a difference?

When i graduate this year, me being a guy and having served NS, i asked a fellow malaysian what his pay was since we were getting into similar jobs. He immediately shot back " lower that yours la, ask what ask? "
He went on to say that " it's not fair, u know, how come u get higher pay than us? Over many years many thousands of dollars lei"

I looked at him in the eye and tell him " Buang, why dun u serve in the army and i'll pay you TWICE that difference for the rest of your life?"

It's the attitude that is appalling. He went on to say " hey , i got a bond one lei "

" yeah rite! like you will want to go back to Malaysia to work and get less than half the pay"

Seriously, i dun mind having foreigners in our country. Usually, good ones come in and overall, there is a trickle down effect that helps us all. But pls, show some humility and not take what singapore gives u as a god-given.

This is just my bad experience with one foreigner. Not saying everyone is like that.

 

[night86mare]

The only problem is that it is not about citizen or PR, human or pig. Citizens are subjected to the laws that apply to citizens like NS for one. PRs are not. In a time of crisis, Citizen will (or at least by right) stay back and defend the nation. PRs will tell you thank you so much for the good time. I think that it is your country's affairs and I as non citizen should not interfere... take care and bye!!!!!

You know
I think the standard say, foreign worker, not even PR
probably has no money to fly out in times of war

Singaporeans?
JETSTAR ASIA
SIA
BYE BYE SAYONARA SINGAPURA

 

[Silence Sky]

Are you sure ? PRs don't get to vote in such situation. I'm afraid the situation is the other way around.

For LUP, only citizen can vote. Confirmed.
But for additional room, every eligible resident has the right to vote, this includes the PRs.
I can't reach the below website, could someone please help to confirmed the voting policy. Thank you.

http://askhdb.hdb.gov.sg/faq_selected.asp?category=27929,28089,28096

 

[eikin]

You know
I think the standard say, foreign worker, not even PR
probably has no money to fly out in times of war

Singaporeans?
JETSTAR ASIA
SIA
BYE BYE SAYONARA SINGAPURA

are you a Singaporean?

 

[night86mare]

if Singaporeans are not important, why have Singapore? going by your logic, there's no need for a nation. Singapore should just operate like a real private limited, and all Singaporeans be treated like anyone else on this earth. there should not be any laws specifically pertaining to Singaporeans, this place is only about those who want to contribute to ... well ... this private limited.

oh yes, and there'll be a need to get rid of anyone who is a liability to the organisation, a burden to the economy. the old and weak, those who did not make it in the studies, those in debt ... ... ... all must go.

Wow, beat the dead horse that has been resurrected only 8000 times before
Singapore Pte Ltd, you seem to use such an interesting analogy, but oh wait, I've only seen it, erm, 8000 times before!

Did I say that?

I wonder if I say that there are cases where girls actually are stronger than boys
you'd come and tell me that I am wrong
The general development of the body does not allow this to be so

This is quite usual, the no link between your extension of my argument
And my argument
Enough said

 

[night86mare]

are you a Singaporean?

Does it matter what I answer?

The preformed impression in your mind, like the usual local who refuses to see logic where it is due

Is that I am a PR who wants to defend himself, for whatever reason

No, I am an Eskimo

Come build igloos with me