Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

[godzilla60]

Godzilla, quite a few American universities have law degrees with a specialization in media law. I would recommend one of those located in LA for further job opps are graduating.

Anyway, just wondering what the legal implications are because because in LA, during the filming of a big production, the streets are shut off, huge barriers are put up and permits are issued such that that public area now becomes private domain and as such falls under the contracts between individual that govern the actions within the private domain. I wonder what happens in singapore.

or perhaps in a more weddingish setting, say you're directing a client (much like a director would in a movie or a television show) and a videographer films your subjects and at the end of the video, the credits are "production by xyz video company," but gives no credit to the photographer for directing the shoot. is this a legal issue? an ethical one? perhaps it's no big deal to a lot of photogs here, but i think it's still worthy of discussion.

LA's film production reminds me of the lockdown during F1:angry:

eh.....seriously, there should not be legal implications for the wedding..... ethical-wise...not so sure....what is legal is not necessarily ethical...:dunno:

 

[godzilla60]

I think that already answers the question why some professionals are touchy about people shooting around them.

In fact, the higher the fees, the more onerous the photographers' terms are. It's more than just the fees that these photographers can command, but also the certain level of respect that they demand from the client and the guests on the wedding day itself. You can look at it as insecurity or photographer protecting his own biz and interests.

One of my friend's paying USD$23k for her 5-hour wedding in LA, and the list of clauses in the 9-page T&C is amazing. The couple actually instructed their coordinators and helpers for the day to make sure no one else is in the way of the contracted photographer and that all the conditions stipulated by the photographer is adhered to. If you're paying a photographer $23k for your own wedding, would you like the idea of uncle bob coming in the mess things up?

now..23k for 5-hour wedding....see u guys...am packing my bags for LA....haha

on the serious note... the wedding is all around the couple. if it is the couple's preference that the photographer is not hindered, it should be respected. what i was arguing for is that unless for extreme uncle bobs and extremely insecure photographers, we should all respect each other and the couple....

 

[godzilla60]

has it occurred to anyone that "uncle bobs" are offensive even to the couples themselves???

let me count the weddings where the couple has profusely apologised to me for their behavior and did relevant actions to prevent it from happening for the rest of the day.

on a more practical note, there will always be cameras/bobs around. there is no hard and fast rule of "how many other cameras are allowed and where should they stand". but when u're in the field, it's very obvious to the experienced photographers when this line is crossed.

and back to the topic of "stealing poses". if someone is "stealing my pose", don't i have every right to extend courtesy and let them shoot FIRST, them being esteemed guests/relatives of the couple? whether this action of mine is to the dismay of the couple i'm not sure, but i'm just being polite. i'll stand back (or shoot other things) till they are done. nothing wrong on my part.

that is a good observation...
some guests do overstay their welcome by neglecting basic courtesy as well as couple's preference
some photographers are over-professional and eccentric by neglecting basic courtesy as well as couple's preference too.....

point is: whoever u are, photographer or uncle bob, respect each other and the couple's preference

 

[jOhO]

that is a good observation...
some guests do overstay their welcome by neglecting basic courtesy as well as couple's preference
some photographers are over-professional and eccentric by neglecting basic courtesy as well as couple's preference too.....

point is: whoever u are, photographer or uncle bob, respect each other and the couple's preference

indeed is a good observation, or more accurately, an observation that i cannot but notice as a person who has shot so many weddings.....

so side note is this: while trying NOT to sound overly arrogant, i feel that there are quite a few individuals who are talking without having any or much "field knowledge".

ONE incident with a rogue photographer (if he is one at all) makes them all knowing about the rest of the industry, and out in the field?

at least you listen to reason, kudos.

 

[canturn]

now..23k for 5-hour wedding....see u guys...am packing my bags for LA....haha

on the serious note... the wedding is all around the couple. if it is the couple's preference that the photographer is not hindered, it should be respected. what i was arguing for is that unless for extreme uncle bobs and extremely insecure photographers, we should all respect each other and the couple....

OT: 23k is not even the higher end ones in LA :devil:

One of the first questions that one of my good friend and biz advisor threw to me when I told him that I'm going into the wedding photography biz is "how are you going to differentiate yourself from the ah beng photographers out there?"

A lot of us here whine about not getting enough respect when out in the field. Learning to demand the respect is one, earning it through our professional conduct and how we handle the situations, esp Uncle Bobs will forever be in the picture, no puns intended.

I'm not in the best position to judge who's right or wrong in the scenario mentioned by the TS. But what my first concern when I read some of the responses and reactions in this thread is the reputation and image of wedding photographers. I certainly hope people don't have this beng-up image when photographer or 'cameraman' comes to mind.

 

[godzilla60]

OT: 23k is not even the higher end ones in LA :devil:

One of the first questions that one of my good friend and biz advisor threw to me when I told him that I'm going into the wedding photography biz is "how are you going to differentiate yourself from the ah beng photographers out there?"

A lot of us here whine about not getting enough respect when out in the field. Learning to demand the respect is one, earning it through our professional conduct and how we handle the situations, esp Uncle Bobs will forever be in the picture, no puns intended.

I'm not in the best position to judge who's right or wrong in the scenario mentioned by the TS. But what my first concern when I read some of the responses and reactions in this thread is the reputation and image of wedding photographers. I certainly hope people don't have this beng-up image when photographer or 'cameraman' comes to mind.

seriously i should start packing and go off to LA...haha

yah...u r one of the few photographers with EQ. keep it going!:thumbsup:

 

[godzilla60]

indeed is a good observation, or more accurately, an observation that i cannot but notice as a person who has shot so many weddings.....

so side note is this: while trying NOT to sound overly arrogant, i feel that there are quite a few individuals who are talking without having any or much "field knowledge".

ONE incident with a rogue photographer (if he is one at all) makes them all knowing about the rest of the industry, and out in the field?

at least you listen to reason, kudos.

haha.....

reason keeps many alive....i must learn to listen to it often:bsmilie:

 

[zoossh]

actually how likely is wedding banquet shot likely to become the award winning shot? someone had hypothesised this situation and i guess the professionals in this field are probably the best to share their knowledge on this.

though somewhat in a different field, my limited experience in travel shots seem to suggest that different photographers at close distance shows quite different pictures becos of difference in moment and expression, framing/focal length, etc. and becos it is near, a change of angle can differs a lot. comparatively, i guess, landscape photographers have a higher likelihood sharing the same frame when standing at close by locations, and that happen not infrequently in my travel experience, either that a few of us caught attention to the same interesting object at the same time, or coincidentally at different timings, with no intention of "copying". i have personal experiences of having similar landscape shots but haven't really have similar portraits. And for the question for that what if someone gets the award when i dun, i personally is fine becos i didn't submit that same photo for that competition, and i shouldn't be jealous of those who did. of cos, the difference in my situation is that non-salon type travel photographers do not pose their subjects nor the landscape, and the lighting and moment that occurs under the sun is a given for everyone under the sun.

vying for shooting positions have probably manifest in different photographic genres, leading to conflicting opinions between serious professional/amateurs versus more light hearted professional/amateurs in various manners. amateurs may not be bothered about winning an award while professionals are concerned becos it affects their resume and career. amateurs are not worried about someone's else portfolio while these portfolio if taken in a commerical setting by others becomes competition to the others. but how relevant is that an issue when it comes to a shot in wedding banquets? i'm sure there are people here who can share their experiences.

 

[lancey]

Okay i do not know whether this is the right section of the forum to post this on but i will just go ahead(Sorry moderators). Here we go(as told by my friend):

Recently, my friend's aunt was having a wedding party and like all married couples do, hire a wedding photographer to capture this significant part of their life. Well my friend and another of his uncle brought along their DLSR along to capture some moment for personal use and storage. When they saw the wedding photographer asking the couples to pose for a couple of pictures, they decided to join in.

However, the wedding photographer asked them to stop as he was paid to do his job. My friend and his uncle were not sure what was going on.:dunno:

The uncle then tried to talk some sense by saying that he and his nephew(my friend) can shoot together as though it's a model shoot. To further worsen the situation, the wedding photographer claims that he invented the poses the couples were doing and that my friend and his uncle should stop immediately.

Frustrated, my friend and his uncle went back. But not to ruin the ceremonious occasion, they decided not to inform the groom and the bride.:nono:


So in this type of situation, what do you do? And what measures can be taken to prevent such an incident from happening again?:think:

i personally feel the photog had every right to kick your fren and his uncle's Ss...in this situation. If it were me, i'd throw my camera in their faces.

 

[Reflection]

Great! I've recovered from my weekend shooting blitz, and can now post a logical reply to this situation.


"When they saw the wedding photographer asking the couples to pose for a couple of pictures, they decided to join in."

Did they ask the photographer if it is was ok for them to join in, or did they just assume that it was ok? I usually ask if the seat is taken before i share a table with others at the kopitiam across the street; i believe it's common courtesy.


"However, the wedding photographer asked them to stop as he was paid to do his job."

I personally don't mind if folks wanna take photos from a distance, while i'm doing portraits for people. Just don't distract me, or the couple. If i find that things are getting out of hand, then yes, i will certainly ask them to stop and explain the problem.

"The uncle then tried to talk some sense by saying that he and his nephew(my friend) can shoot together as though it's a model shoot. "

The uncle wasn't talking any sense whatsoever. How do you equate a wedding portrait session to a model shoot? Absolute rubbish.


"To further worsen the situation, the wedding photographer claims that he invented the poses the couples were doing and that my friend and his uncle should stop immediately."

I think the situation was worsened by the uncle's nonsensical suggestion earlier. I believe the retort from the photographer was of similar value to the uncle's suggestion, just like how silly questions deserve silly answers.

To top it all off, all this is nothing but hearsay. People have a tendency to sensationalize situations in their favor.

 

[godzilla60]

i personally feel the photog had every right to kick your fren and his uncle's Ss...in this situation. If it were me, i'd throw my camera in their faces.

care to justify your statement? or is it a one-off attention-grabbing two-liners meant for impact and nothing else to add?

 

[godzilla60]

Great! I've recovered from my weekend shooting blitz, and can now post a logical reply to this situation.


"When they saw the wedding photographer asking the couples to pose for a couple of pictures, they decided to join in."

Did they ask the photographer if it is was ok for them to join in, or did they just assume that it was ok? I usually ask if the seat is taken before i share a table with others at the kopitiam across the street; i believe it's common courtesy.


"However, the wedding photographer asked them to stop as he was paid to do his job."

I personally don't mind if folks wanna take photos from a distance, while i'm doing portraits for people. Just don't distract me, or the couple. If i find that things are getting out of hand, then yes, i will certainly ask them to stop and explain the problem.

"The uncle then tried to talk some sense by saying that he and his nephew(my friend) can shoot together as though it's a model shoot. "

The uncle wasn't talking any sense whatsoever. How do you equate a wedding portrait session to a model shoot? Absolute rubbish.


"To further worsen the situation, the wedding photographer claims that he invented the poses the couples were doing and that my friend and his uncle should stop immediately."

I think the situation was worsened by the uncle's nonsensical suggestion earlier. I believe the retort from the photographer was of similar value to the uncle's suggestion, just like how silly questions deserve silly answers.

To top it all off, all this is nothing but hearsay. People have a tendency to sensationalize situations in their favor.

wow... great dissection of TS's complaint.....haha..... but i must say your views are balanced too. :thumbsup:

how was the blitz? did the income come rolling in? and any annoying uncle bobs? :sweatsm:haha

 

[Dream Merchant]

I don't know about sensationalism, but I did see a few professionals from various industries post here, as well as many others who are probably not involved as professionals in the industry become, as someone implied, 'overnight experts' in the matter, sad to say, and it actually appears that many members who responded in this thread seem hell bent to some extent or another, regardless of how nicely or not so nicely they have stated their opinions to lynch, condemn, deride, ridicule or generally wack the professional wedding photographer and that makes me wonder if this was true reflection of feelings, or a herd mentality thing?

Is it any wonder then that non-photographers and the general public here in Singapore take so awfully long to regard and respect photography in a professional light, and act accordingly?

 

[foxygal]

Well..i guess it's up to individuals..we have all kinds of people in this world..we just have to tolerate and to understand other people's views and comments..for me..if i was asked to stop shooting..i'll just wait for a while and ask the couple to do another pose which will not 'infringe copyrights' of the official photog...anyway..i've never come across such situations...guess we'll just have to be mindful that it's somebody's wedding and we won't want to be remembered for the wrong reasons and 'spoiling' everybody's happy mood...hehe...

 

[Dream Merchant]

The uncle then tried to talk some sense by saying that he and his nephew(my friend) can shoot together as though it's a model shoot.

The uncle wasn't talking any sense whatsoever. How do you equate a wedding portrait session to a model shoot? Absolute rubbish.

Like what Foxygal said ... it takes all sorts to make up this world!

 

[godzilla60]

I don't know about sensationalism, but I did see a few professionals from various industries post here, as well as many others who are probably not involved as professionals in the industry become, as someone implied, 'overnight experts' in the matter, sad to say, and it actually appears that many members who responded in this thread seem hell bent to some extent or another, regardless of how nicely or not so nicely they have stated their opinions to lynch, condemn, deride, ridicule or generally wack the professional wedding photographer and that makes me wonder if this was true reflection of feelings, or a herd mentality thing?

Is it any wonder then that non-photographers and the general public here in Singapore take so awfully long to regard and respect photography in a professional light, and act accordingly?

That is true. However, you also have noticed many coming up hard against the Uncle Bob.... respect works both ways. Photographers who insist they have the copyright pose or lighting are on one extreme end and uncle bob who insist they have the right to take pictures regardless of whether they hinder the official photographer are on the other end. What it takes is tolerance and respect for each other and the thing will blow over.

Respect from non-photographers and general public is not only lacking towards photographers but also towards other industries. So, as the tagline goes...courtesy begins with me...

 

[godzilla60]

Well..i guess it's up to individuals..we have all kinds of people in this world..we just have to tolerate and to understand other people's views and comments..for me..if i was asked to stop shooting..i'll just wait for a while and ask the couple to do another pose which will not 'infringe copyrights' of the official photog...anyway..i've never come across such situations...guess we'll just have to be mindful that it's somebody's wedding and we won't want to be remembered for the wrong reasons and 'spoiling' everybody's happy mood...hehe...

yup...to balance it, photographers should also remember that they don't want to be remembered for the wrong reasons and 'spoiling' everybody's happy mood too by insisting on his/her rights regardless of whether it is enforceable or not...

 

[lancey]

care to justify your statement? or is it a one-off attention-grabbing two-liners meant for impact and nothing else to add?

Justify a PERSONAL opinion on this(or any) issue? lol

 

[godzilla60]

Justify a PERSONAL opinion on this(or any) issue? lol

lol....then i take it as a joke then

 

[lancey]

OT: 23k is not even the higher end ones in LA :devil:

One of the first questions that one of my good friend and biz advisor threw to me when I told him that I'm going into the wedding photography biz is "how are you going to differentiate yourself from the ah beng photographers out there?"

A lot of us here whine about not getting enough respect when out in the field. Learning to demand the respect is one, earning it through our professional conduct and how we handle the situations, esp Uncle Bobs will forever be in the picture, no puns intended.

I'm not in the best position to judge who's right or wrong in the scenario mentioned by the TS. But what my first concern when I read some of the responses and reactions in this thread is the reputation and image of wedding photographers. I certainly hope people don't have this beng-up image when photographer or 'cameraman' comes to mind.

U r not in the position to judge whos's right and wrong in the uncle bob fiasco but u could differentiate an ah beng wedding photog-like behaviour from a non ah beng(like yourself presumably) photog-like behaviour FROM THE WAY PEOPLE RESPOND HERE?

give me a break.