Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

[catchlights]

Let me give an insight, If you are tasked to do the job, you want everyone in the photograph to look at you, the photographer.

now some other guests points the camera and the people posing gets confused. Where to look?

When the Official Photographers takes the shot and another one, it ends up some of the posed guests are not looking at the photographer, who gets the blame? The extra "photographers", No its the main Photographer.

Please do not be selfish, you think taking photos are your mantra and right? Please just go and enjoy the wedding as a guest.

Also my clients have known to want us to correct the eyeballs, How?

No wants would like to offend anyone if possible but want you dun spare a thought for others, at least think what your actions can cause you.

I encounter this countless time..

usually I rather ok with someone shoot beside me.. if they know how to be "automatic"

let me share with everyone the way I handle this...

during taking the group photos, if I saw some people in the photo look somewhere else because of other "photographers" rise the camera at the same time, I just simply tell the group nicely that I have to retake cos someone not looking at my camera..
if other "photographers" still not "automatic" and try to take again, I will keep retake and retake and retake till someone go and tell those photographers to stop taking photos.

I need not to rise my voice, I need not to give someone stern face....

and I won't see anymore cameras around me thru out the day.....

 

[fotoudavid]

When ppl shoot besides me, i will stop actually, and ask the guest to look at the other photographers, after they finish then i take, this happens when in group photo only.

 

[doom102938]

Lol. Actually maybe you use a sign or something like that and attach it to your camera? like using luminous tape or maybe a sign saying "You should be looking HERE to save time.". Or just attach a ring flash?

 

[vince123123]

As you can see, the different ways which the pros handle the same situation, clearly distinguishes one from the other, as evident from the responses in this thread

 

[Deadpoet]

We are all MISSING the point here, and blaming the photographer who was hired to do a job.

At the end of the day, should we ask, WHY ON EARTH does uncle bob or cousin joe felt that they must, felt that they were entitled, and felt that was their duty to snap away?

If uncle bob or cousin joe are such great photographers, and felt it's their duty, then they should have discussed this with the wedding couple, and volunteered their services before the official photographer was hired.

Too many cooks spoil the soup. Same applies. Too many photographers ruin the picture.

I am braced for rebuttal from the hot heads that their snaps saved the day because of official photographer did not deliver. I will say this again, they why not volunteer their services ahead of time and become the official photographer!!! duh.

 

[ellery]

Folks who do not do photography for a living are often get very confused by the simple notion that there is a time not to shoot and there is a time when you should be shooting. The "serious hobbist" often thinks that anything in front of his lens is his to shoot until he runs out of card space or battery or time, that will definitely kill of a lot of significant candid moments for the wedding photographer - it is hard to even to do normal flash work when there is a flash (ie click) going on every second or two. Yeah we who do this professional have ways to work around this and still get deliverables but its the couple that will lose moments.

Most times comments like what our dear TS has said are one sided and colored by at least 2 layers of communication seperation much can be distorted by that gap alone. God alone knows what was actually said. I know one thing no pro that understands people work will quite say it that it was suposed to hav gone down. There are ways to deal with different kinds of people - and I do not mean dragging them around the corner to beat the tar out of them litertally or verbally. Dark smiles from what some ang mo PJ I talked with, heard of are lots nasty moves you can do to seriously nioxious individuals in a photo scrum but that is a different life situation. In wedding work you do not get milk from beating a cow.

Having said this the uncle bob problem will never go away, probably get worse.

 

[ellery]

I very very very agree with knoxknocks.

There was a few instances when i had to do table shots and other group shots where at least 2-3 other photographers were snapping away next to me. Even though i was literally almost shouting to the guest to "Kan zhe bian" at least 3 out of 10 of them will be looking away. And i have been questioned before "Why is my mom and dad looking away?" or "Eh. how are we going to use this photo if the person not even looking?" and even when i had explained to them on location and after delivery of the images, the fault still lies with me as the main photographer.

Smiles remember the uncle or aunt who will never look in the camera direction not matter what or how much coaxing? Blessed be unto them who like 3/4 looking away for group photos- if it turns them on then do it that way. There is a knack to having a presence that makes the table memebers know that YOU are the one doing there table shot - you should not need to shout so much. *-)

 

[NeTHaCk]

i recount an incident during my cousin's wedding. the photographer at least told me nicely if i wanted to take the shots go ahead, but he's got a schedule and is paid by the hour and wont be nice if he was delayed and had to charge the couple unnecessarily.

i know how irritating it is to take the shots and someone blocks it. i was doing a backdrop shot in her house and they had flashes everywhere, and u know, flash triggered kind of shoot, and he was aboutto shoot and some people just shoot and the whole flash were triggered.

he still gotta wait for the flash to recycle ... and then another person does it too. what i did was instead pump my ISO, took off my flash and shot at 2.8 instead .so as not to trigger the flash.

i also recount how some shots , candids and nice important shots are wasted.. you cant like ask the couple to repose again you know... if like putting the ring on the finger can lah.. but the shots will not be natural anymore.. more of like forced cause the photographer missed it

its a one sided story for the TS. for all we know, the photographer might have told them nicely, but they were just plain ignorant.

ive seen it happen once at a wedding, the photographer told them nicely, but this guy keep ignoring till the photographer at last flared up.

i dont blame him, that guy was just wasting everyone's time and thinks he was paid for the event .

ended up couple had a very bad relation with that person afterwards, as the photographer was paid by the hour and took the photographer's precious time away for that guy's camera

 

[Makanator]

Okay from what I can see from the postings here, perhaps some people has abit of misunderstanding of what is going on. So let me clarify this matter again:

Wedding photographer(let's call him A) poses couple and shoot.
After 1 shot, A moves away to prep the couple for another pose.
My friend and uncle goes in, thinking that they are cleared for a shot or two.
Misunderstanding occurs over "copyrighted" poses and A's refusal to work together(even when it is possible).
Friend and uncle leaves scene to table.

Hope i make things clearer abit. And please do not infer too much on the sulking.

 

[canturn]

I very very very agree with knoxknocks.

There was a few instances when i had to do table shots and other group shots where at least 2-3 other photographers were snapping away next to me. Even though i was literally almost shouting to the guest to "Kan zhe bian" at least 3 out of 10 of them will be looking away. And i have been questioned before "Why is my mom and dad looking away?" or "Eh. how are we going to use this photo if the person not even looking?" and even when i had explained to them on location and after delivery of the images, the fault still lies with me as the main photographer.

Just to share some tips that has really worked, and my assistant photographers can vouch for that. The key here is to communicate and get the helpers/coordinators/bridal party to help you out. I don't do the group shots, and I find that establishing some of these does help my assistant get his job done very quickly, and I mean 60 tables in less than 40 minutes is entirely possible.

1. Couples would have arrowed at least 4 helpers to help out during the group /table shots, usually right after the 2nd walk in/champ toasting.

2. The key here is to get 2 tables ready before we even shoot it. There's no waiting for anyone because emcee has annouced that if you're not at the table that's too bad (no matter how big shot you are, no one's going to wait for you to finish smoking or peeing)

3. No one is else is supposed to shoot, and the 4 helpers are there to enforce that. My assistant is to help make that happen. I always tell my assistants NEVER to take anyone's camera to shoot, whatever the circumstance is. When you've seen things like Uncle Bob's camera slipping off the hand of the helper (while trying to pass the camera to the photographer) into a bowl of drunken prawn broth, you'll understand why we don't touche other people's cameras. When one Uncle bob passes the camera to the photographer to shoot, the other people will follows, so think of how much time that's going to waste. Some of my couples does get their emcees to annouce that due to time constraint, the photographers will not be able to use anyone else's camera to shoot the group shots.

4. Setting the target time the group shots is to finish will help to get pressure points going and comeon, if 40 tables are going to take 1 hour 30 minutes to complete, which happened to one of my relative's wedding, that's almost half the banquet time. Ask your couple whether they spent a year planning for the banquet for that to happen.

5. Be firm, not kwai lan and do it with a smile. At the end of the day, you can't please everyone, but everyone has to know that you're paid to do your job well.

 

[Will03]

Okay from what I can see from the postings here, perhaps some people has abit of misunderstanding of what is going on. So let me clarify this matter again:

Wedding photographer(let's call him A) poses couple and shoot.
After 1 shot, A moves away to prep the couple for another pose.
My friend and uncle goes in, thinking that they are cleared for a shot or two.
Misunderstanding occurs over "copyrighted" poses and A's refusal to work together(even when it is possible).
Friend and uncle leaves scene to table.

Hope i make things clearer abit. And please do not infer too much on the sulking.

On the Actual Day.. if the main photographer is tasked with posing the couples for shoot..
why should the friend and uncle move in ?

You have to understand that on the Actual Day .. we are all working on very tight timeline.. if the friend and uncle wants to shoot.. by all means.. but not when the photographer is preparing the couple and directing them.... time will be wasted.. ( I am sure everyone will agree that 1 person shooting will be faster than 3 people shooting.. rite ?)

And is there any reason why the professional should work together with the uncle and friend for the shoot ? Are you saying that all 3 photographers will be shooting the couples at the same time and possibly distracting them ?

In wat situation does it mean that it is possible to work together for the shoot ? (based on wat assumptions ?)

maybe the 'copyrite' pose was taken out of context.. .we will not know.. this story is narrated from a 3rd party ( the TS.. whom i assume is not at the wedding?) .. the photographer is not here to explain himself or give his side of the story...

But ultimately.. i guess.. most of the wedding photograhers ( myself included) do not really mind if someone else want to take pictures too.. as long as it does not disrupt our work..
By saying that the uncle and friend should be given the chance to work together with the photographer.. that itself might disrupt his work already..

 

[Makanator]

On the Actual Day.. if the main photographer is tasked with posing the couples for shoot..
why should the friend and uncle move in ?

They thought it was alright to join as the photographer was preparing for the next shot and not in the middle of a shoot.

You have to understand that on the Actual Day .. we are all working on very tight timeline.. if the friend and uncle wants to shoot.. by all means.. but not when the photographer is preparing the couple and directing them.... time will be wasted.. ( I am sure everyone will agree that 1 person shooting will be faster than 3 people shooting.. rite ?)

Yes i do agree on that point. But the method that the photographer handled the situation (on requesting my friend and his uncle for not shooting) could be better.

And is there any reason why the professional should work together with the uncle and friend for the shoot ? Are you saying that all 3 photographers will be shooting the couples at the same time and possibly distracting them ?

On the point of "working together", I had stated in earlier posts in which my friend's uncle told the photographer that they could shoot from another angle while the couples are posing for the wedding photographer(without distracting either one of them).
I do believe a quick plan could be made up on the spot. Isn't photography about having initiatives as well?

maybe the 'copyrite' pose was taken out of context.. .we will not know.. this story is narrated from a 3rd party ( the TS.. whom i assume is not at the wedding?) .. the photographer is not here to explain himself or give his side of the story...

On the point of taking things out-of-context, my friend told me from his experience word-by-word. He does have an account in Clubsnap but wishes to be Anonymous at this point of time.

In regard to who the photographer actually was, my friend was not able to find out, so therefore we cannot have his point of view.


I have tried to reply your queries to the best of my abilities and knowledge obtained from my friend. I do hope that what I can provide here should be insightful enough.

 

[godzilla60]

I always feel it is always important to remain cordial to guests and relatives of clients.

Have you even been pushed by a rude elderly waitress when you do a group table shot (for the bridegroom's family) and the waitress tells you off to give way to her as she needs to do the dishes first? hahaha, shiz happens ok... If you flip, it show you are just as rude as her.

Have you been blocked by a 1.7m tall lad right at the centre front portion of march in and he wont move an inch, with his legs spread apart, blocking the videographer (who is next to the stage) and you as a photographer?

Sometimes, we have to control ourselves that these are close relatives/friends who might be assigned by the couple's parents to help cover more angles (or just in case the photos cant be delivered by the paid photographer). To them, it is insurance. To us, it is nuisance.

As for stealing pose and hence an image, I sometimes feel that it is almost impossible for two photographers to have same pictures, same lighting technique and same mood from the same pose. Even if they are having the exact same gears, the two pictures will likely look very different. So, it is not possible for them to steal unless the guest has much better skills and equipment than the assigned photographer.

I usually shoot in manual mode all the way and I dont think it is easy for another person to produce the same shot as I did. I may not have a camera as advance as the guest, but I shoot what I have in mind. Even if I pass to the guest my camera to shoot me (by request of the bride/groom), more often than not, the pictures wont likely turn out the same as what I had set.

I was once told of a true story of a photographer requesting to walk out from a high profile wedding shoot. The assigned photographer is very well know, but little did he know that the guest invited another well known photographer for the same coverage. The non official photographer did not ask for money for the shoot. In the end, he was literally following behind the main photographer observing and learning his entire workflow. The main photographer was so offended, after one hour, he walked up to the couple and said he was done with the shoot as a special guest had been trying to be his shadow.

Many weird things do happen in a wedding scene. We just call it luck sometimes. Perhaps we just have to deal with it. If in doubt, call clubsnap. :bsmilie:

this is good comment. :thumbsup: The importance and impact of EQ over efficiency. And addresses about trademark poses and the likes....

 

[helmiz]

Encountered a similar incident before. Of course, I explained nicely but to no avail. I then turn offensive. What I did was,

a) after I had taken the group photo, I informed loudly to the couple to proceed to the next table, giving him no chance to shoot.

b) still no effect. I then turn to plan B. When it's his/her turn to shoot after me, I purposely blocked him just when he's about to shoot.

c) still no effect. Plan C. Before I shoot, I tilted my flashhead directly to him/her and fire directly into his/her face. I then quickly turn the flash to my desired position and shoot again. Of course, after that I quickly move away from him/her.

 

[godzilla60]

Indeed, you have posted a very classic ethical problem in this industry in Singapore. Kiasuism at its very best.
Insensitivity through the lack of common courtesy haunts every aspect of making a living & societal mindsets here it seems.
The only resolve I can see to prevent such unpleasantries is to indicate your terms as a hired photographer. Agree to my terms first before I accept any deposits or full payments is what I will adhere to. Otherwise, I'll advice them to go DIY. Respect should be two way. Not one.

haha....prepare to give up some conditions in your contract in order to maintain the relationship and to encourage referrals. It is almost impossible to impose a condition for every situation. In fact, unless your contract terms are drafted professionally by a top lawyer that covers every loophole, your enforcement of such ambiguous terms in contract may result in time and money wasted in fighting lawsuits.

This is alike to enforcing your rights to take photographs. Will you enforce your rights to take photo of a gangster in a public road even if it is obviously your right? Likewise, will you enforce the right to stop taking photos (hence disrupting the ceremony)?

 

[godzilla60]

It's 4.52am now, and i'm just sitting in front of my pc stoning for a while as i prepare to leave for a wedding job.

My worst experience so far:

I'm shooting a tea ceremony, and i'm just about to take a shot with my eye in the viewfinder when everything suddenly turns a bright orange. Uncle Bob decides to stand right smack in front of my lens. Champion.

Of course i wasn't rude or anything (there was laughter and apologies), but i kept the photograph of Uncle Bob's orange shirt. When i deliver the photos and if someone kicks up a fuss about me missing a particular tea ceremony shot, i'm pulling out my Bright Orange 4R Trump Card.

haha...nice way of dealing with such a nuisance....sometimes it is incredible that these uncle bobs are so inconsiderate.....they prb think your camera has a crop of 5x so they are not inside your picture...haha

 

[godzilla60]

It is quite clear from the responses here, who are the professionals with real life customer orientated mindset and who are the insecure professionals who insist in their way even though they are the supplier and not the customer hehe

The former will more likely have repeated customers or referrals, whilst the latter will be busy fighting battles with the customer at every turn.

Contaxable is an example of the former.

that i got to agree with you. every successful business owner knows very well that the real boss is the customer....to certain extent.

 

[godzilla60]

I also have the same experience, the bride's father was holding a 5D with a 85mm f1.2 L... a equipment alot better then mine... I was using a Olympus E1 back then... so he suddenly become my back up photographer... I take the wide angel zoom and he took most of the telephotos... so much so that he need to squeeze against a wall to take a shot... (I took a shoot of him in that position too)... He followed my angle and I follow his too... but he understand certain shot I need to cover so he let me go ahead... it kind of understanding between us...

Then we talk... and he reveal that he work as a professional photographer in USA... dealing with studio photography..

wow....finally a considerate uncle bob...haha

 

[godzilla60]

I guess you can call out loudly and firmly for the subjects to look at you first, and once you are done, the rest can then take their photos. There doesn't seem to be a great need to ban guest photography outright (not as if the photographer can either).

true......

Instead of an outright ban, let me introduce 3 concepts, namely customer management, supplier management and competition management.

customer management:
telling the client what will ensure that you get the right shots, letting them know it is crucial that they assist u to get the pictures they want. Most customers will help you to ensure they get the pictures they want...

supplier management: (for info, i treat the people at the table as suppliers of your pics)
telling the people at the table that they need to look at you so that you can give them a picture of them nice and sweet, engaging them with conversations, getting their attention before snapping away, review your shots and shoot again if unsatisfactory.

competition management: (ah...those uncle bobs)
telling the aspiring photographers that you need to take the shot first and offering them your position and angle so that they will wait patiently for you to finish and try from your angle. also get the brothers to advise other uncle bobs nearby to wait and assure them they get their opportunities.

These are better than outright ban, gets the involvement of the brothers, gets the approval of the clients and gets the word around that this photographer not only produces great pics but is knowledgeable in dealing with constraints.

 

[godzilla60]

I encounter this countless time..

usually I rather ok with someone shoot beside me.. if they know how to be "automatic"

let me share with everyone the way I handle this...

during taking the group photos, if I saw some people in the photo look somewhere else because of other "photographers" rise the camera at the same time, I just simply tell the group nicely that I have to retake cos someone not looking at my camera..
if other "photographers" still not "automatic" and try to take again, I will keep retake and retake and retake till someone go and tell those photographers to stop taking photos.

I need not to rise my voice, I need not to give someone stern face....

and I won't see anymore cameras around me thru out the day.....

wow......so i attend a wedding and i see a photographer stuck at any table, retaking and retaking...i know why and i know it is u? haha

that's a great idea too....haha u usually dun have to repeat more than 2 times before the brothers get into action, do u?