Wedding Photographer Mishap: What to do?

[OldFlower]

I always feel it is always important to remain cordial to guests and relatives of clients.

Have you even been pushed by a rude elderly waitress when you do a group table shot (for the bridegroom's family) and the waitress tells you off to give way to her as she needs to do the dishes first? hahaha, shiz happens ok... If you flip, it show you are just as rude as her.

Have you been blocked by a 1.7m tall lad right at the centre front portion of march in and he wont move an inch, with his legs spread apart, blocking the videographer (who is next to the stage) and you as a photographer?

Sometimes, we have to control ourselves that these are close relatives/friends who might be assigned by the couple's parents to help cover more angles (or just in case the photos cant be delivered by the paid photographer). To them, it is insurance. To us, it is nuisance.

As for stealing pose and hence an image, I sometimes feel that it is almost impossible for two photographers to have same pictures, same lighting technique and same mood from the same pose. Even if they are having the exact same gears, the two pictures will likely look very different. So, it is not possible for them to steal unless the guest has much better skills and equipment than the assigned photographer.

I usually shoot in manual mode all the way and I dont think it is easy for another person to produce the same shot as I did. I may not have a camera as advance as the guest, but I shoot what I have in mind. Even if I pass to the guest my camera to shoot me (by request of the bride/groom), more often than not, the pictures wont likely turn out the same as what I had set.

I was once told of a true story of a photographer requesting to walk out from a high profile wedding shoot. The assigned photographer is very well know, but little did he know that the guest invited another well known photographer for the same coverage. The non official photographer did not ask for money for the shoot. In the end, he was literally following behind the main photographer observing and learning his entire workflow. The main photographer was so offended, after one hour, he walked up to the couple and said he was done with the shoot as a special guest had been trying to be his shadow.

Many weird things do happen in a wedding scene. We just call it luck sometimes. Perhaps we just have to deal with it. If in doubt, call clubsnap. :bsmilie:

Indeed, you have posted a very classic ethical problem in this industry in Singapore. Kiasuism at its very best.
Insensitivity through the lack of common courtesy haunts every aspect of making a living & societal mindsets here it seems.
The only resolve I can see to prevent such unpleasantries is to indicate your terms as a hired photographer. Agree to my terms first before I accept any deposits or full payments is what I will adhere to. Otherwise, I'll advice them to go DIY. Respect should be two way. Not one.

 

[Reflection]

It's 4.52am now, and i'm just sitting in front of my pc stoning for a while as i prepare to leave for a wedding job.

My worst experience so far:

I'm shooting a tea ceremony, and i'm just about to take a shot with my eye in the viewfinder when everything suddenly turns a bright orange. Uncle Bob decides to stand right smack in front of my lens. Champion.

Of course i wasn't rude or anything (there was laughter and apologies), but i kept the photograph of Uncle Bob's orange shirt. When i deliver the photos and if someone kicks up a fuss about me missing a particular tea ceremony shot, i'm pulling out my Bright Orange 4R Trump Card.

 

[vince123123]

It is quite clear from the responses here, who are the professionals with real life customer orientated mindset and who are the insecure professionals who insist in their way even though they are the supplier and not the customer hehe

The former will more likely have repeated customers or referrals, whilst the latter will be busy fighting battles with the customer at every turn.

Contaxable is an example of the former.

 

[Verticoastro]

I also have the same experience, the bride's father was holding a 5D with a 85mm f1.2 L... a equipment alot better then mine... I was using a Olympus E1 back then... so he suddenly become my back up photographer... I take the wide angel zoom and he took most of the telephotos... so much so that he need to squeeze against a wall to take a shot... (I took a shoot of him in that position too)... He followed my angle and I follow his too... but he understand certain shot I need to cover so he let me go ahead... it kind of understanding between us...

Then we talk... and he reveal that he work as a professional photographer in USA... dealing with studio photography..

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

Let me give an insight, If you are tasked to do the job, you want everyone in the photograph to look at you, the photographer.

now some other guests points the camera and the people posing gets confused. Where to look?

When the Official Photographers takes the shot and another one, it ends up some of the posed guests are not looking at the photographer, who gets the blame? The extra "photographers", No its the main Photographer.

Please do not be selfish, you think taking photos are your mantra and right? Please just go and enjoy the wedding as a guest.

Also my clients have known to want us to correct the eyeballs, How?

No wants would like to offend anyone if possible but want you dun spare a thought for others, at least think what your actions can cause you.

 

[vince123123]

I guess you can call out loudly and firmly for the subjects to look at you first, and once you are done, the rest can then take their photos. There doesn't seem to be a great need to ban guest photography outright (not as if the photographer can either).

 

[Belle&Sebastain]

I guess you can call out loudly and firmly for the subjects to look at you first, and once you are done, the rest can then take their photos. There doesn't seem to be a great need to ban guest photography outright (not as if the photographer can either).

if you have done enough shoots to know its not possible to shout your way though to get the full attention. I understand that you are not a professional wedding photographer to get my points across. Not everyone understands your vocal language, kids, folks, the people posing but looking at the cameras others are shooting for them with.

the best way like my fellow other professionals is to smile and let the others finish what they are doing. When they are done we will only start.

 

[knoxknocks]

I guess you can call out loudly and firmly for the subjects to look at you first, and once you are done, the rest can then take their photos. There doesn't seem to be a great need to ban guest photography outright (not as if the photographer can either).

My experience has been that as long as there is more than 1 camera held up, people will look everywhere even if you holler.

I don't think guest photography banning is possible either.

 

[zoossh]

i think we all more or less can agree that guests should not get into the way of the commissioned photographer, and the photographer being a paid personnel for the wedding should speak in appropriate manners to his guests.

now taking that above as probably concluded, the thing is just left to the "stealing the shot" and "taking the credits" which could only be understood by some. i'm just wondering if that is overly sensitive as i doubt that these lay persons are out to steal credits or proclaim of being better photographers. besides, if their shots are consistently as good or better than the official photographer, having to stand at another angle and possibly with no eye contact (usually done so as not to get into the way of the photographer), i doubt that can be solely due to the pose instructed by the photographer, as he is not going to stalk the official photographer in every shot (of cos, rare occasions some do).

while it doesn't mean the official photographer is bad, but can't some amateurs be good enough for the couple to praise? and if that happens among a series of photos, would it be due to that once or twice occasion of the relative shooting at an angle from the photographer?

as for the eye contact thing, i suppose the photographer can communicate (not just on contract) to the couple before hand so that the couple will know what to do. for the remaining difficulties photographers faced in terms of blocked positions or unwanted flash etc, i acknowledged that.

 

[Verticoastro]

there was once my friend ROM, he told me to bring camera to shoot a few shoot for them... and yes I bought my camera... to my surprise, I saw a official photographer and my friend ask me to join in the shoot... I was like thinking it will not be nice shooting along side with the main photographer... so I refused to bring out my camera... maybe my friend doesn't know the code of conduct for photographers...

 

[photoscholar]

Sounds like that wedding photographer has a pretty low EQ and is likely to offend guests at a event he covers. He's probably a very territorial photographer. If there's another official photographer engaged to do the shoot, you may see some unhappy faces and ego clashes.

He's just like the territorial chef of a restaurant who has pride over the way the kitchen runs and the style of his cooking. Even if you are the owner of the restaurant, bring another head chef in, you are likely to see some petty fights.

What to do if i were you?

Firstly, it's good to respect the photographer by letting him finish his shots completely before you ask if you can take over and snap some too before the posed group disperses.
He's a proud professional whose ego need to be stroked.

After you have asked in the most polite way possible, and he's still rude in the way he responds...
I think it's alright to inform the couple that you were not allowed to shoot when you wanted to. I will even tell the couple if i think the photographer's rude.
Well... noting that the perception of whether one's rude or not is pretty subjective.
but it's good for the couple to get some quick feedback in case the photographer really has a foul temper or rude manners and they won't want him to ruin the day's mood.

 

[zoossh]

Similar discussion by some overseas wedding photogs that is very relevant to the topic at hand.

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/699883

cultural differences may not be directly comparable. but thanks for the link.

 

[windwaver]

Okay i do not know whether this is the right section of the forum to post this on but i will just go ahead(Sorry moderators). Here we go(as told by my friend):

Recently, my friend's aunt was having a wedding party and like all married couples do, hire a wedding photographer to capture this significant part of their life. Well my friend and another of his uncle brought along their DLSR along to capture some moment for personal use and storage. When they saw the wedding photographer asking the couples to pose for a couple of pictures, they decided to join in.

However, the wedding photographer asked them to stop as he was paid to do his job. My friend and his uncle were not sure what was going on.:dunno:

The uncle then tried to talk some sense by saying that he and his nephew(my friend) can shoot together as though it's a model shoot. To further worsen the situation, the wedding photographer claims that he invented the poses the couples were doing and that my friend and his uncle should stop immediately.

Frustrated, my friend and his uncle went back. But not to ruin the ceremonious occasion, they decided not to inform the groom and the bride.:nono:


So in this type of situation, what do you do? And what measures can be taken to prevent such an incident from happening again?:think:

It's happening everywhere. There's no hard and fast rule but ppl normally just take their chances to shoot loh but what I think is most irritating is the multiple flashes going off around me :bsmilie:

 

[Teo]

I can say that the photographer has a low self-esteem and no confident in his work.

 

[Chris Lim]

I very very very agree with knoxknocks.

There was a few instances when i had to do table shots and other group shots where at least 2-3 other photographers were snapping away next to me. Even though i was literally almost shouting to the guest to "Kan zhe bian" at least 3 out of 10 of them will be looking away. And i have been questioned before "Why is my mom and dad looking away?" or "Eh. how are we going to use this photo if the person not even looking?" and even when i had explained to them on location and after delivery of the images, the fault still lies with me as the main photographer.

 

[NMSS_2]

think there are some differences between free-snappers, free main photographers and paid main photographers.

Most main photographers might be pretty displeased and annoyed if they are hindered from executing their job (the smaller percentage might be either they are too good or bochup). Free main photographers (mostly amatuers or friends) and paid main photographers do go hand in hand for the wedding shoot provided if there are agreements made with the photogs and the wedding couple.

Think is it pretty ok for relatives or friends to take snap shots as long as they dont hinder the main photogs. It is definitely not ok if the couple expect miracles to happen even in bad situation that is beyond the photogs' control. Do you expect bad photographs after paying someone to do the shoot?

 

[vince123123]

Hmm, whilst I am not a professional wedding photographer, I have done enough group shoots (not in a wedding context) with more than one photographer in the picture to know how to get the subjects looking my way. The job gets even easier when it is obvious who the main photographer is.

I think it is not necessary to compare who is a pro and who is not to make a point. Just make the point without pulling out the qualiifcations card.

if you have done enough shoots to know its not possible to shout your way though to get the full attention. I understand that you are not a professional wedding photographer to get my points across. Not everyone understands your vocal language, kids, folks, the people posing but looking at the cameras others are shooting for them with.

the best way like my fellow other professionals is to smile and let the others finish what they are doing. When they are done we will only start.

 

[Luval]

if you have done enough shoots to know its not possible to shout your way though to get the full attention. I understand that you are not a professional wedding photographer to get my points across. Not everyone understands your vocal language, kids, folks, the people posing but looking at the cameras others are shooting for them with.

the best way like my fellow other professionals is to smile and let the others finish what they are doing. When they are done we will only start.

at the end of the last few table , u probably lose your voice ... most of time IF there arent more than 1 guest. i let them take the shot . after that I will take the shoot. this is 1 safe way to get the shot.but then again .. I do gently tell the other PG not to follow too close to me. But I rem there was once "uncle bob" din listen .. I have to approach the couple to tell uncle bob to stop completely ..otherwise the photo will be looking at him instead of me..

 

[Parka]

If the photographer is hired, just let the photographer do his job.

Basically anyone else shooting is just hindering the photographer's job. And when the photographs don't turn out well, who's fault is it? Of course it's the photographer's fault.

And also, people who are shooting for fun are just wasting the photographer's time. The guy has to finish taking as many good photos as possible.

 

[Parka]

It is quite clear from the responses here, who are the professionals with real life customer orientated mindset and who are the insecure professionals who insist in their way even though they are the supplier and not the customer hehe

The former will more likely have repeated customers or referrals, whilst the latter will be busy fighting battles with the customer at every turn.

Contaxable is an example of the former.

It's very easy to separate actually.

What does the thread starter value? Good photos at the event or sulking uncles who missed their shots.

The problem here is simply a lack of communication. It's just simple misunderstanding.