Wedding Photographer Get Together

[ckuang]

Why must think it as a war?

Why must we fight against each other?

Why don't we put the efforts of fighting against each other for better uses?

Don't we all know that at the end of a war, no one is winner?


I come in peace, and I'm a small fly.

Exactly what I am thinking.

Anyway, I hope this meeting is beneficial because I do have ideas on how to work togther. Look at WPJA. This association, based in the US, has done so much for me in terms of client education, advertising, etc even though they are half a world away. Are there other photographers there? of course, but they're all working together to raise standards, acceptable practises. This is being done in so many fields of photography. Wedddings, photojournalism, fine art, even commerical. Look where the Australian and American photog are as far as standard and pay? They've gotten there because there were people who had the foresight to see that this is not a zero sum game. When someone wins, everyone wins if we are all working together.

And even if there are photogs shooting the $300 market, we are still interested in their point of view. Why they are targeting that specific market segement and where they want to be.

OK, so if people are worried about sharing, I'll be the first one to share. I shoot approx 36 weddings a year. That's all I can do physically and mentally. I charge an hourly rate of $325 and the hourly rate includes a CD of the images from the wedding. My albums start at $1500 for 50 images and each additional images is $25. My average client expenditure is is about $6K. My next year's pricing would likely be revised upwards to around $400 an hour. Album charges remain the same. Now that i have shared the information, I hope this will encourage all of you to come with an attitude of openess. How you use the information I have provided to grow your business is up to you. As the market gets better I benefit as well by being able to push prices even higher. That is why i am willing to share.

 

[Enchanted]

Sorry no offence, just wondering whether it will be alright to collect information like how many jobs that a photographer is doing per year, their income and so on, doesn't really help in working together rather than fighting each others?

Actually what CKuang suggest about advertising together is a good idea for which I believed some people are already doing that on magazine and stuff like that.

And to be honest in my opinion there are different market segments in Singapore, for example, people who can afford to pay big bucks for their wedding, of course people who cannot afford and people who is not willing to or do not think its worth the money. Some even wants it for free. Ultimately it depends on which market are you targeting on, I don't think the low rate issue really matter to me. At the end it is what you pay and what you get. Couple can't be paying S$100 to S$200 and expecting S$2k to S$3k quality right? This is exactly what I mean. How about those long time photographers who still tag along with bridal shop and probably charging S$300 whole day including film and photo developing?

Even if we were to advertise together or what, as long as we have our own company or our own brandname to keep, there will never be possible to work together, coz in fact business is a war, there will have no peace in war, unless all are in the same company. Think you know what I mean hehe

Feel free to state your opinion, this is just my opinion.

Sorry to have answer late to your concern on the above.

The Questionaire in the Paper is just a Quick references to whom we are communicating, and from what level of experiences and background he is from, etc.

It is NOT about collecting data for scrutiny and judgement. Be assured there are NO bias about Who You are , or What You do -- it's merely avoiding indifferent situations, whereby mis-communication/ mis-understanding may be a concern for some.

You could choose to ignore the above, or simply fill-in what YOU Think is Neccessary, or applicable.

. . . . .

Personally, the Questionaires will help One in the shortest possible time and meeting opportunities, to 'match-make' or short-list potential Co-Ops or Business partnership.


. . . . .

Feel free to Voice your say here ... so as to ironed-out any sticky situtation that could arised during such meet-ups and discussion session.

Ths Meeting is about BUSINESS of Wedding Photography - and as such, Data and statistics will Help One in putting Up refined Solutions and proposition better ...

Don't You agree ?

. . . . . .


NickGoh

 

[matrix1195]

19th April, 7-10pm
Oasis Cafe on Boussurah St.

01) ckuang
02) eadwine
03) Will03
04) gilbert
05) rolzink (TBC)
06) khairi
07) tomshen
08) Lmodel
09) catchlights
10) Max 2.8
11) Witness
12) tsangstudios (TBC)
13) Smurfman
14) Tim (by invitation)
15) enghong
16) deencat
17) alechim
18) SniperD sorry for the late reply...
19) berryhappy (TBC) sorry just chance upon this thread today!
20) SpitFir3
21) willyfoo (Will try to make it)
22) Nicholas
23) ashleyy
24) incastasman= Andrew (will be there abt 7.15pm cos me work till 7pm)
25) WoLoh (Can Newbie join in)
26) uncleparty
27) Genesis,OurDreams
28) iamasaint (Kelvin Koh) Just saw this too!
29) photoexpress
30) betazone
31) kwnsx.
32) Enchanted
33) Xing[/QUOTE]
34) Matrix1195(Malcolm) Just saw this also

 

[ckuang]

Sorry to have answer late to your concern on the above.

The Questionaire in the Paper is just a Quick references to whom we are communicating, and from what level of experiences and background he is from, etc.

It is NOT about collecting data for scrutiny and judgement. Be assured there are NO bias about Who You are , or What You do -- it's merely avoiding indifferent situations, whereby mis-communication/ mis-understanding may be a concern for some.

You could choose to ignore the above, or simply fill-in what YOU Think is Neccessary, or applicable.

. . . . .

Personally, the Questionaires will help One in the shortest possible time and meeting opportunities, to 'match-make' or short-list potential Co-Ops or Business partnership.


. . . . .

Feel free to Voice your say here ... so as to ironed-out any sticky situtation that could arised during such meet-ups and discussion session.

Ths Meeting is about BUSINESS of Wedding Photography - and as such, Data and statistics will Help One in putting Up refined Solutions and proposition better ...

Don't You agree ?

. . . . . .


NickGoh

Nick, you have spoken exactly what i was thinking. Now if people are wondering how all this information is going to help let me give you an example. Right now, my average client spending is around 6K. my gut feeling is that the next group of photographers are probably averaging about 3.5-4K. So what does this mean? It means there is a market gap and an opportunity for photographers to move up or fill in the 4-5k gap. Now for the photogs who have moved up and into the 4-5k gap, where their old market used to be is another gap for another group of photogs to move into. But once again, we cannot confirm this without market information and this is where all of us working together and meeting and talking is going to do. The possibilities are endless that's why we need to work together. geddit?

 

[tomshen]

Hey guys sooooo sorry that I could not make it today. I have to attend some urgent appointments till very late. Please keep me updated and have fun!

 

[deencat]

Why must think it as a war?
Why must we fight against each other?
Why don't we put the efforts of fighting against each other for better uses?
Don't we all know that at the end of a war, no one is winner?
I come in peace, and I'm a small fly.

I totally agree if you, of course no one like it to be a war, if another can work together, that will be great, especially price war, its something that anyone shouldn't go into.

Don get me wrong I am also very interested in how to really work together.

 

[deencat]

Exactly what I am thinking.

Anyway, I hope this meeting is beneficial because I do have ideas on how to work togther. Look at WPJA. This association, based in the US, has done so much for me in terms of client education, advertising, etc even though they are half a world away. Are there other photographers there? of course, but they're all working together to raise standards, acceptable practises. This is being done in so many fields of photography. Wedddings, photojournalism, fine art, even commerical. Look where the Australian and American photog are as far as standard and pay? They've gotten there because there were people who had the foresight to see that this is not a zero sum game. When someone wins, everyone wins if we are all working together.

And even if there are photogs shooting the $300 market, we are still interested in their point of view. Why they are targeting that specific market segement and where they want to be.

OK, so if people are worried about sharing, I'll be the first one to share. I shoot approx 36 weddings a year. That's all I can do physically and mentally. I charge an hourly rate of $325 and the hourly rate includes a CD of the images from the wedding. My albums start at $1500 for 50 images and each additional images is $25. My average client expenditure is is about $6K. My next year's pricing would likely be revised upwards to around $400 an hour. Album charges remain the same. Now that i have shared the information, I hope this will encourage all of you to come with an attitude of openess. How you use the information I have provided to grow your business is up to you. As the market gets better I benefit as well by being able to push prices even higher. That is why i am willing to share.

Exactly, I am interested to hear your opinion on how to work together. Please share.

Talking about S$300 market, I think I can answer you why, my associate photographers are also offering low price, not S$300 but S$600, basically they need to practice, they need exposures, they need experiences, and there are small number of couples who are not and not willing to pay the extra amount for their wedding or maybe because they have spent so much on pre-wedding photography package already. So these kind of people don't really care about the quality or outcome of the photos, they just want someone to capture the event for them, some doesn't even wants their photos to be developed. But to us, they are a good practice ground and portfolio gathering, rather than giving free services, we do charge them. When my associate photographers gradually improved their skills, so will their price, I would say that kind of pricing for them won't last more than 6 months.

I don't mind to share also, although I am not like you CKuang in the high end market, I am also sort of low to medium end market right now, hoping to move up soon. Coz I am getting a bit sick of this market segment haha

I shoot approx 50 weddings a year. That's also I can afford to do mainly because I am not doing it full time at the moment, my package ranging from S$888 to S$2000, depends on what the customer wants. Hope to increase to S$1000 to S$2500 by the end of this year. Have not increase any price since early last year. My client average expenditure is about S$1.5k.

 

[Enchanted]

Nick, you have spoken exactly what i was thinking. Now if people are wondering how all this information is going to help let me give you an example. Right now, my average client spending is around 6K. my gut feeling is that the next group of photographers are probably averaging about 3.5-4K. So what does this mean? It means there is a market gap and an opportunity for photographers to move up or fill in the 4-5k gap. Now for the photogs who have moved up and into the 4-5k gap, where their old market used to be is another gap for another group of photogs to move into. But once again, we cannot confirm this without market information and this is where all of us working together and meeting and talking is going to do. The possibilities are endless that's why we need to work together. geddit?

Kuang,

Thank you for sharing your sensitive pricing and personal information ... :thumbsup:

To follow-up, my wedding day photo packages and pricing are transparent to the public, and can be viewed at my webby.

I covered about 50 wedding day job per year -- average billing per Contract is $1,800.
My Target in the next 3-5 years is to half the Job, and tripled the current average billing.

. . . . . .

You are right that pricing in Singapore Weddings is way-off from the Global Comparison and Rate.

We have Major Problem here --- Serious Pricing inadequacy which are Not true reflective of the Value of One's Professional Works and Efforts, Business Costs and which has a Long-term Negative effects on Profesional Moral, Attitudes and Discipline.

The quicker we could eliminated or minimised the Pricing inadequacy, the betterment for the Wedding Day Professionals and the Industry, as a whole --- at the same time the Consumer or Customers will benefit form the raised Standards -- of High Quality World-class Works and Professional Services.

. . . .

There are other Problems that plaque most of the Pros, too ... Issues which we may put-up in the days ahead, or in this Private Discussion forum.


Guys what are your thoughts ... ?


. . . .

 

[deencat]

Nick, you have spoken exactly what i was thinking. Now if people are wondering how all this information is going to help let me give you an example. Right now, my average client spending is around 6K. my gut feeling is that the next group of photographers are probably averaging about 3.5-4K. So what does this mean? It means there is a market gap and an opportunity for photographers to move up or fill in the 4-5k gap. Now for the photogs who have moved up and into the 4-5k gap, where their old market used to be is another gap for another group of photogs to move into. But once again, we cannot confirm this without market information and this is where all of us working together and meeting and talking is going to do. The possibilities are endless that's why we need to work together. geddit?

Ok now I understand your intention, thanks for your effort and Nick

 

[uncleparty]

What are possible avenues we can help one another with? Ie, Anyway for us to do group advertising to raise our profile to a level in which we are the first stop for wedding couples? Hint, I'm thinking of a group site and then advertising as a group....find out more tomorrow.

I agree with this. infact an issue i was gonna raise if no one else had. ofcourse membership into the group site/association should assure couples that the photographer's inclusion assures quality and a certain sense of artisitic value.

cya all this evening!

 

[deencat]

Kuang,
Thank you for sharing your sensitive pricing and personal information ... :thumbsup:
To follow-up, my wedding day photo packages and pricing are transparent to the public, and can be viewed at my webby.
I covered about 50 wedding day job per year -- average billing per Contract is $1,800.
My Target in the next 3-5 years is to half the Job, and tripled the current average billing.
. . . . . .
You are right that pricing in Singapore Weddings is way-off from the Global Comparison and Rate.
We have Major Problem here --- Serious Pricing inadequacy which are Not true reflective of the Value of One's Professional Works and Efforts, Business Costs and which has a Long-term Negative effects on Profesional Moral, Attitudes and Discipline.
The quicker we could eliminated or minimised the Pricing inadequacy, the betterment for the Wedding Day Professionals and the Industry, as a whole --- at the same time the Consumer or Customers will benefit form the raised Standards -- of High Quality World-class Works and Professional Services.

There are other Problems that plaque most of the Pros, too ... Issues which we may put-up in the days ahead, or in this Private Discussion forum.

Guys what are your thoughts ... ?
. . . .

I totally agree with u nick, the effort and cost that we put in just does not reflect on the pricing, but who can regulate this? Perhaps we can form an organisation or association to do so like other industries.

Something like the Australia Professional photography association or something like that perhaps, do you think this will be helpful in helping us to move in the right direction? Better Profesional Moral, Attitudes and Discipline?

 

[deencat]

Hi Guys, I just checked out their web site, they stated on the web site that they closed at 9pm on Monday to Thursday.

Here is the location just in case anyone don't know.

http://www.myblueoasis.com/location.htm

 

[ckuang]

Hi Guys, I just checked out their web site, they stated on the web site that they closed at 9pm on Monday to Thursday.

Here is the location just in case anyone don't know.

http://www.myblueoasis.com/location.htm

Don't worry, I've booked the cafe so they are staying open for us. Trust me, i have it sorted. Sorta

 

[Lmodel]

Btw, I might be slightly late coz having some jobs to finish in Jurong before going down. Anyway, can someone bring a marker and a masking tape so that we can all write down our nick and paste on our shirt so we will know who is who.

Cheers mate!

 

[tim]

Just informed that I have to do "OT" therefore cannot make it. Sorry.

 

[AhV]

this is probably one of the meaningful session organised so far :thumbsup:


I mean we thrash out issues ..... KUDOS to ckuang for the effort


Cheers dudes ..... great meet-up for fellow wedding photographers and aspiring wedding photographers

 

[fotoudavid]

very good meeting up with wonderful ppl............:thumbsup:

 

[TrailsofLife]

I kinda lost myself in the middle of the meeting, thinking of my shoot tomorrow. Most issues mentioned are more for pros that already have on-going business. Most issues have not hit me yet, since I just started for 3 weeks(or at the starting line only of going into this industry). At least I know what to look out for in the future.

 

[catchlights]

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

At least we begin something....


Looking forward to see progression for all wedding photographers..

 

[Xing]

great meeting today :thumbsup: lets hope something great is coming soon