Upset Photographer - Feeling Violated.

[JasonB]

Hi G-man, you are welcome to pm me to know me better, if you want to. And if anyone out there thinks I'm a con man, bad egg, I am willing to meet you any time to face your arrows

Esper Esper I really really have a lot of things to say to you. To tell you the TRUTH. In my heart of hearts, I see you as my younger brother, sometimes as my son even. I never see you as someone I want to take advantage of. I can prove it to you. At the job during lunch, when you said you are a vegetarian I was shocked. I quickly told you to get your own lunch at the food centre opposite and I'm willing to pay for it, if you remember. When you later said you can eat some meat, I was relieved. When I saw you eating little, I tried to encourage you to eat more chicken by saying the chicken is very nice and tender, remember? Maybe its because of this brotherly, fatherly love I have for you I seems to be strict, serious at times. Thats why I asked did you finished spending the money I last paid you. When you said you were tight, I was very concerned also. Thats why I paid you in cheque because I want you to save your money in the bank, so that you can use it wisely. I see the great potential in you after the first job. Thats why when I have another job I wanted to give it to you - MY FIRST CHOICE and even willing to pay you double, if you remember. If in the future I know that you are a successful, established photographer I would be very happy for you and will be very proud to say that I have worked with you before. And anyone out there see this I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND Esper for your jobs.

I use both young and old, experienced and inexperienced photographers. When I use experienced photographers of course I will pay them according to the market rate. I also use new and young photographers because I feel that I have a lot to impart to them, whether they agree to my knowledge or not. I am willing to impart my skill and knowledge to them, give them the exposure they need and I get the help I need, in a win win situation. But based on this current situation, I believe its very difficult for me to continue and maybe in the future you might see me doing something else, probably not my passion.

Anyone read this may I ask you - do I deserve all this? I really hope that this saga would close so that I can also live my life with dignity and pride.

Sharpshooter, but not sharp anymore

Shameless.

You can keep your bromance to yourself. Or your disgusting fatherly love. People have own parents - and you are a manipulative stranger who is shamelessly trying to play caring big brother after you are caught. Who are you trying to fool? This is a business affair and a one off thing, there's no need to fall in love with the TS, saying all those BS only shows how unprofessional you are and so full of disgusting nonsense.

You lost all credibility with this stupid post. Please get your lame self out of this industry, you don't belong.:nono:

 

[eleveninth]

Shameless.

You can keep your bromance to yourself. Or your disgusting fatherly love. People have own parents - and you are a manipulative stranger who is shamelessly trying to play caring big brother after you are caught. Who are you trying to fool? This is a business affair and a one off thing, there's no need to fall in love with the TS, saying all those BS only shows how unprofessional you are and so full of disgusting nonsense.

You lost all credibility with this stupid post. Please get your lame self out of this industry, you don't belong.:nono:

my exact thoughts when i read that. cringe worthy.

 

[silencer13]

Shameless.

You can keep your bromance to yourself. Or your disgusting fatherly love. People have own parents - and you are a manipulative stranger who is shamelessly trying to play caring big brother after you are caught. Who are you trying to fool? This is a business affair and a one off thing, there's no need to fall in love with the TS, saying all those BS only shows how unprofessional you are and so full of disgusting nonsense.

You lost all credibility with this stupid post. Please get your lame self out of this industry, you don't belong.:nono:

my exact thoughts when i read that. cringe worthy.

Now we know why TS said he felt violated.

 

[Far far away]

Hahahahaha.... I am laughing when I saw that post...

 

[G-man]

Hi G-man, you are welcome to pm me to know me better, if you want to. And if anyone out there thinks I'm a con man, bad egg, I am willing to meet you any time to face your arrows

Esper Esper I really really have a lot of things to say to you. To tell you the TRUTH. In my heart of hearts, I see you as my younger brother, sometimes as my son even. I never see you as someone I want to take advantage of. I can prove it to you. At the job during lunch, when you said you are a vegetarian I was shocked. I quickly told you to get your own lunch at the food centre opposite and I'm willing to pay for it, if you remember. When you later said you can eat some meat, I was relieved. When I saw you eating little, I tried to encourage you to eat more chicken by saying the chicken is very nice and tender, remember? Maybe its because of this brotherly, fatherly love I have for you I seems to be strict, serious at times. Thats why I asked did you finished spending the money I last paid you. When you said you were tight, I was very concerned also. Thats why I paid you in cheque because I want you to save your money in the bank, so that you can use it wisely. I see the great potential in you after the first job. Thats why when I have another job I wanted to give it to you - MY FIRST CHOICE and even willing to pay you double, if you remember. If in the future I know that you are a successful, established photographer I would be very happy for you and will be very proud to say that I have worked with you before. And anyone out there see this I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND Esper for your jobs.

I use both young and old, experienced and inexperienced photographers. When I use experienced photographers of course I will pay them according to the market rate. I also use new and young photographers because I feel that I have a lot to impart to them, whether they agree to my knowledge or not. I am willing to impart my skill and knowledge to them, give them the exposure they need and I get the help I need, in a win win situation. But based on this current situation, I believe its very difficult for me to continue and maybe in the future you might see me doing something else, probably not my passion.

Anyone read this may I ask you - do I deserve all this? I really hope that this saga would close so that I can also live my life with dignity and pride.

Sharpshooter, but not sharp anymore

Seriously?!?! Man what have you been smoking? Get off the drugs man!!!

 

[ziggy]

Seriously?!?! Man what have you been smoking? Get off the drugs man!!!

You give drugs too much credit. This guy was born this way.

 

[Esper]

Hi G-man, you are welcome to pm me to know me better, if you want to. And if anyone out there thinks I'm a con man, bad egg, I am willing to meet you any time to face your arrows

Esper Esper I really really have a lot of things to say to you. To tell you the TRUTH. In my heart of hearts, I see you as my younger brother, sometimes as my son even. I never see you as someone I want to take advantage of. I can prove it to you. At the job during lunch, when you said you are a vegetarian I was shocked. I quickly told you to get your own lunch at the food centre opposite and I'm willing to pay for it, if you remember. When you later said you can eat some meat, I was relieved. When I saw you eating little, I tried to encourage you to eat more chicken by saying the chicken is very nice and tender, remember? Maybe its because of this brotherly, fatherly love I have for you I seems to be strict, serious at times. Thats why I asked did you finished spending the money I last paid you. When you said you were tight, I was very concerned also. Thats why I paid you in cheque because I want you to save your money in the bank, so that you can use it wisely. I see the great potential in you after the first job. Thats why when I have another job I wanted to give it to you - MY FIRST CHOICE and even willing to pay you double, if you remember. If in the future I know that you are a successful, established photographer I would be very happy for you and will be very proud to say that I have worked with you before. And anyone out there see this I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND Esper for your jobs.

I use both young and old, experienced and inexperienced photographers. When I use experienced photographers of course I will pay them according to the market rate. I also use new and young photographers because I feel that I have a lot to impart to them, whether they agree to my knowledge or not. I am willing to impart my skill and knowledge to them, give them the exposure they need and I get the help I need, in a win win situation. But based on this current situation, I believe its very difficult for me to continue and maybe in the future you might see me doing something else, probably not my passion.

Anyone read this may I ask you - do I deserve all this? I really hope that this saga would close so that I can also live my life with dignity and pride.

Sharpshooter, but not sharp anymore

LMAO-ing....

For the record, I was never once tight on cash whilst working with you. I merely wanted a "Pay:Images" exchange, so as to avoid unforeseen delays in payment or whatsoever. Who knows what you'll do even more to hold me back and 'trap' me again with more jobs that I haven't accepted or anything of that sort.

And says who is it not possible for you to continue your career in photography ? If you put enough effort into it, be transparent with other budding photographers, set and implement a solid system/structure on how you operate where everything is written in B&W, I highly doubt so that things would go wrong again. Still, it's ultimately your choice.
I personally don't believe in impossible. Only things are impossible when insufficient effort is put into doing things.

I hope you understand that I'm not purposely taking a piss on you just because of my unhappiness, but because I believe that the world, especially budding photographers like me, has to constantly learn from lessons like this. And one way of doing so is by sharing my experience.

And Thanks for your commendations though, but I'd prefer going about based on my own merits.

 

[nitewalk]

I do not understand why sharpshooter needs to meet everyone who doubts him. I don't see any need for that.

 

[surrephoto]

The bromance part just got really weird. Saga thread unfolding when I thought it was about to end.

 

[Shizuma]

in due fairness to sharpshooter
he isn't a scammer (criminal who did not provide goods or services or monies due, according to contract )

he is merely conducting his business unethically.
newbies in business and the trusting beware.

wise man tell me
be wise as serpents
be harmless as sheep

then you will live many lives like the cat.

 

[G-man]

in due fairness to sharpshooter
he isn't a scammer (criminal who did not provide goods or services or monies due, according to contract )

he is merely conducting his business unethically.
newbies in business and the trusting beware.

wise man tell me
be wise as serpents
be harmless as sheep

then you will live many lives like the cat.

I agree he isnt a scammer. In fact I don't recall anyone mentioning he is. However, you cannot deny that the posts so far point to a manipulative person who tries to weasel his way out when caught with hand in cookie jar. That's the impression i get anyway.

 

[Shizuma]

I agree he isnt a scammer. In fact I don't recall anyone mentioning he is. However, you cannot deny that the posts so far point to a manipulative person who tries to weasel his way out when caught with hand in cookie jar. That's the impression i get anyway.

no mancs, Sherlock.

 

[zaren]

good to hear both sides of the story, and a useful reminder to everyone plying their trade in the photo services industry.

 

[surrephoto]

I have met many photographers like sharpshooter, they shoot but outsource jobs regularly to other photographers for a cut... let's just call them photography middlemen.

There are nice good ones & bad ones. Those that pay really low are not neccesarily the bad ones. I became good friends with a fella who paid me $200 for an AD, which started out as a test run for my 5DIII. Now we are good friends and I give him video jobs too, everyone is happy. On the contrary, aother middlemen who paid me my average hourly rate seemed very timely with payments for the first few jobs, but evaded payment for the next 4 or 5 jobs for almost a year & a half. Not really the worse guy I've met, but just really bad with his finances. Bazi & star signs seem to be involved, since a middlemen who "escaped" to JB after owing dozens of photographers payment actually paid me on time, me being the fortunate exception to escape unscathed. Perhaps he had af a change of heart after I cleared up some saikang for him. You can see the human element here.

It might be true that someone like sharpshooter isn't a good photographer, heck, many ah lau photographers don't shoot very well, but they know how to rub shoulders with people of their generation... for them and most middle aged singaporeans, it's all about relationships and "guanxi". It's all perspective because not many people demand that much technical quality in event photography... awards ceremonies, D&D, RC parties et cetera. I presume that Esper, like myself, belong to the newer era who may reject the essence of guanxi when conducting our freelance services, in turn relying on things like skills, innovation, marketing or competitive pricing, or combination of these factors. Obviously when these middlemen rely on outsourcing as a form of income, they need to take a reasonable to big cut; as for how much of a cut is too much of a cut is purely one's perspective. This is why I rather not know how much the middlemen are quoting their customers. Why give yourself a reason to hate someone? Whether an ah lau middleman relying on guanxi or young photographer relying on cheap rates to nab assignments... they are just doing what they do best.

 

[ross]

Sharpshooter has been a photographer "middle man" for some period of time engaging many photographer from what I read from him. If so, wouldn't at least another person whom he had engage come in and give us another side of his work relations with his "contractors". All I see here is Esper giving his side of the story, with good details and articulation I might add and SS giving his side. Can someone who have worked with SS tell us how and what kind of a paymaster and middleman he is. Just to be fair to case.

 

[Agetan]

There are always wolf out there, but there is always a choice to be made... but you can learn more by taking the blame on yourself and hope you don't make the same mistake.

Digging out one wolf from the pack isn't going to stop this... this just make one miserable person more miserable.

The best thing in life is, you can always make mistake and learn from it and grow wiser. The best way of not making mistake is really by not doing anything.

TS, might lose some time for the benefit of experience and grow wiser.
The middleman, might make some money but stand to lose more, but if he learn to change his approach, I am sure he stand to gain more yet at the same time offer chance for people to learn.

I don't see the point of creating thread like this as advise for making the road less bumpy... our generation need to tough up more... get a few bruises along the way and you will be glad that you learn from the pain through those bruises.

Regards,

Hart

 

[keithwee]

I'm proposing that unless there's more to share from sharpshooter or esper (which I don't think so) , it's time to close the thread but still let it remain as a sticky so others may learn from the experiences.

Of course there are good stories too (1st shoot I was engaged for paid me $80 per hour and given how I'm similar to esper , can consider zero experience, I knew I lucked out but of course I had to deliver the goods too and good rates soon followed by word of mouth). ; it's good even for me to hear that there are people who are still offering $10/hr to shoot formal events which honestly is quite depressing.

Frankly no matter who is right , what matters most is to always be willing to speak up and ask if in doubt, there's many shifu in the industry here like catchlights here who will always be very willing to help with their expertise.

 

[sharpshooter22]

Thank you all for your sharing. I'm so sorry for the bromance part that makes you feel goose bumps, this is truly truly how I feel. I really really have a lot a lot to share but based on things going this way its going to be endless and hurts. By the way most of the time I pay in CASH right after the event photo collection even though I am not paid as yet. And I know the importance of making payment prompt so that I can have a good working relationship. Thats why I wanted to meet so that I can be more transparent and have a good clarification Thank you all and have a nice day

 

[daredevil123]

There are always wolf out there, but there is always a choice to be made... but you can learn more by taking the blame on yourself and hope you don't make the same mistake.

Digging out one wolf from the pack isn't going to stop this... this just make one miserable person more miserable.

The best thing in life is, you can always make mistake and learn from it and grow wiser. The best way of not making mistake is really by not doing anything.

TS, might lose some time for the benefit of experience and grow wiser.
The middleman, might make some money but stand to lose more, but if he learn to change his approach, I am sure he stand to gain more yet at the same time offer chance for people to learn.

I don't see the point of creating thread like this as advise for making the road less bumpy... our generation need to tough up more... get a few bruises along the way and you will be glad that you learn from the pain through those bruises.

Regards,

Hart

Totally agree!

Bad business people, bad customers, bad suppliers, etc will always be there in all lines of work. Just have to toughen up and grow up to face the business world. That's all.

 

[daredevil123]

I think both TS and sharpshooter has already said their piece.

Everyone reading here can draw their own conclusions.

I think more inputs from here on is a bit extra and unnecessary.

Thread closed.