This one is going to be the next printer I buy
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T
tomcat
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This is exactly what I was referring to - problems sometimes arises when original ink is not used with original paper !Watcher said:
I never had any problem with prints fading prematurely or ink not drying when I used Epson inks with Epson papers or HP inks with HP papers but some third party papers are just not compatible with original printer inks despite what the paper manufacturers claimed. For example, I recently tried out some Ilford Printasia papers with my Epson C80 and got prints that are quite dull looking and gave off a vinegar-like smell ! :dunno:
Also, I always believe that original inks must be used with original papers to get the best print quality as each ink has to be ICC profiled with each paper separately and that work has been done by the respective printer manufacturer already for their own ink with their own papers. You could do your own ICC profiling if you have the time and the equipment and get accurate colour print from third party papers should you be so inclined of course.
Errr, in my first URL, the person said:
The second link has this:
I agree about the paper/ink combo. But in this case, it seems that using original ink, with Canon paper, or special paper for dye ink (this paper cannot be used on pigment ink, btw), it still fades. Read the links and do the search yourself.
I do wish I have the $$$ to buy the GM Photo package... :lovegrin:
PPP refers to Photo Pro Paper by Canon.
The second link has this:
The Ilford Gallerie Classic was specially meant for dye inks (like all the Canon) as it swells up and absorbs, protecting the ink and makes it harder to fade. But even with this protection...
I agree about the paper/ink combo. But in this case, it seems that using original ink, with Canon paper, or special paper for dye ink (this paper cannot be used on pigment ink, btw), it still fades. Read the links and do the search yourself.
I do wish I have the $$$ to buy the GM Photo package... :lovegrin:
T
tomcat
Guest
Oh, Oh, Oh !stanley76 said:
Maybe Christmas can come early this year for you !
Went down to the Canon Customer Service Centre at Funan today to get my free Canon Plus! Card and found that more shops are now stocking this printer. The official RRP is $499 at the Canon Centre though the price advertised on the Canon web-site is $429 ! :dunno:
Anyway, you may want to tell Santa that the i905 is available at these places in very limited stock levels:
Challenger: $499
South Asia: $499 with free gifts - 1 black cartridge & 1 pack of Fuji paper
PK Computers: $479
Paris Silk Store: $468
Merry Christmas :vhappy: :vhappy: :vhappy:
Hi guys,
Let's not turn this into a Canon vs Epson printer war.
Both Erwinx and Tomcat have directed your attention to Epson issue with bronzing while you brought up the issue of Canon fading. The fact is, both dye and pigment technology are constantly being improved. There's no point berating Canon on the fade issue while ignoring the bronzing effect of Epson printers (especially their inability to print on glossy paper). So far, Canon users like Tomcat and myself did not experience the fading issues with Canon printers. My point here is that we should all keep an open mind; it can be a case of brand loyalty going too far and we end up closing our minds against other good brands. We love Canon printers like you love your Epson; we're merely stating our experience with the various brands here. I'm sure Epson printers are good too since so many people are using them, but to put down Canon printers using comments from dpreview forum and ignoring the same comments made about Epson printers doesn't seem very open-minded.
It's always good to have competition between brands - otherwise we'd still be stuck with $800 A4 photo printers at 1440 dpi. Both Canon and Epson new printers seem to be promising, with each adopting the best technology of each other. The gap between the two brands are closing, so let's all just put our money where our mouth is. I'll probably be getting the i905D later this afternoon... :bsmilie:
Cheers everyone!
Let's not turn this into a Canon vs Epson printer war.
Both Erwinx and Tomcat have directed your attention to Epson issue with bronzing while you brought up the issue of Canon fading. The fact is, both dye and pigment technology are constantly being improved. There's no point berating Canon on the fade issue while ignoring the bronzing effect of Epson printers (especially their inability to print on glossy paper). So far, Canon users like Tomcat and myself did not experience the fading issues with Canon printers. My point here is that we should all keep an open mind; it can be a case of brand loyalty going too far and we end up closing our minds against other good brands. We love Canon printers like you love your Epson; we're merely stating our experience with the various brands here. I'm sure Epson printers are good too since so many people are using them, but to put down Canon printers using comments from dpreview forum and ignoring the same comments made about Epson printers doesn't seem very open-minded.
It's always good to have competition between brands - otherwise we'd still be stuck with $800 A4 photo printers at 1440 dpi. Both Canon and Epson new printers seem to be promising, with each adopting the best technology of each other. The gap between the two brands are closing, so let's all just put our money where our mouth is. I'll probably be getting the i905D later this afternoon... :bsmilie:
Cheers everyone!
Anyway, you may want to tell Santa that the i905 is available at these places in very limited stock levels:
Challenger: $499
South Asia: $499 with free gifts - 1 black cartridge & 1 pack of Fuji paper
PK Computers: $479
Paris Silk Store: $468
Pic And Pixel;$499(12months interest free by citibank credit card)
Merry Christmas :vhappy: :vhappy: :vhappy:[/QUOTE]
Challenger: $499
South Asia: $499 with free gifts - 1 black cartridge & 1 pack of Fuji paper
PK Computers: $479
Paris Silk Store: $468
Pic And Pixel;$499(12months interest free by citibank credit card)
Merry Christmas :vhappy: :vhappy: :vhappy:[/QUOTE]
Sigh,
Firstly, I started this thread.
Secondly, where did I "ignoring the bronzing effect of Epson printers (especially their inability to print on glossy paper)"? I merely said that it is a function of the ink and dye, which is true only on glossy paper (does NOT exist on matt or semi-glossy papers). Do you know what bronzing is? It is when the pigment ink sits on top of only the glossy paper, causing the bronzing effect on some combination of UltraChrome ink and the paper itself. For matt and semi-glossy papers, it ink is absorbed. This can be eliminated by changing to a more appropriate paper or ink. Alternatively, the R800 printer which will have a gloss optimizer tank will eliminate this totally. I have never said that it does not exist, only that it can be mitigated by the paper and ink used and then ONLY on some glossy paper.
I have never denied that Epson inks tend to clog; I've got the same experience too, as mentioned in my posts. I had even provided a program that can limit the issue.
Seems to be obvious who here is the one who "end up closing our minds against other good brands"?
I started this thread for *my* next printer. Obviously, the OT and gatecrashers (you know who) insist on spoiling it. ;( Mods, please close this thread; it seems useless to discuss anything but good news and sunshine for Canon products while Canonites are on the forums
Firstly, I started this thread.
Secondly, where did I "ignoring the bronzing effect of Epson printers (especially their inability to print on glossy paper)"? I merely said that it is a function of the ink and dye, which is true only on glossy paper (does NOT exist on matt or semi-glossy papers). Do you know what bronzing is? It is when the pigment ink sits on top of only the glossy paper, causing the bronzing effect on some combination of UltraChrome ink and the paper itself. For matt and semi-glossy papers, it ink is absorbed. This can be eliminated by changing to a more appropriate paper or ink. Alternatively, the R800 printer which will have a gloss optimizer tank will eliminate this totally. I have never said that it does not exist, only that it can be mitigated by the paper and ink used and then ONLY on some glossy paper.
I provided the links that is counter to his statement, he didn't read the links, only the quoted paragraph, and said:tomcat said:
This contradicted the person on the first URL who did have first hand experience on this issue. Not knowing that the Ilford paper (in the third quote) is actually designed for dye inks to prevent fading, he said the immediately-above quote. Read PCMag. An editor there recently berated Canon for only producing dye inks that seem to fade rather quickly.tomcat said:
I have never denied that Epson inks tend to clog; I've got the same experience too, as mentioned in my posts. I had even provided a program that can limit the issue.
Seems to be obvious who here is the one who "end up closing our minds against other good brands"?
I started this thread for *my* next printer. Obviously, the OT and gatecrashers (you know who) insist on spoiling it. ;( Mods, please close this thread; it seems useless to discuss anything but good news and sunshine for Canon products while Canonites are on the forums
Watcher said:
I note that in the initial post, a comment was made that the Epson has inks which are better than the ones used by Canon. A discussion about the pros and cons of Epson and Canon printers seems totally legitimate.
Posts in the forum are intended to benefit all readers by providing useful information, not just a place where you tell people what you are buying next.
Information has been provided here by users as to the pros and cons of Canon and Epson printers. I think this is useful and I hardly see a need to close this thread.
If you want to post negative comments about Canon fading, go right ahead. I would like to hear about them and the conditions in which they faded (plus paper/ink used) so that I can take this into account in storing my own prints (which I'm not going to keep for that long since i can always reprint) I think there are a lot of Canon printer users in clubsnap... please post your experiences on print fading
T
tomcat
Guest
Hey Watcher...
Why get so defensive and worked up over something like this? First of all, I am not and never have been a 'die-hard brand loyallist'. I like to try new technology and have tried Canon, HP and Epson printers at one time or another especially whenever they launch new models that leap-frogged their competitors.
As for users comments on dpreview, those who spend enough time browsing those forums would know that a lot of people there like to complain about their equipment. I always take their comments with a pinch of salt and prefer to find out for myself if the problems are real or not. So although I have read about Epson printers' tendency to clog, make pizza tracks and 'what-have-you', I still went ahead and buy 2 Epson printers for myself. I do like Epson's 6-color and pigment-based printouts very much but I just could not accept the clogging, ink-spitting problems that I personally encountered and the 'need-to-print-regularly' or 'suffer-the- consequences' workflow. I really didn't need to print that regularly and so those printers are not suitable for me. Hence my decision to change my printer when the opportunity arises. If they are suitable for you and never or seldom gave you such problems, I'm happy for you.
As for your post on the R800, it is not available yet and everything is still speculation while the Canon i905 is already available in the market. And since I got one, I just thought to share the features and my experience with it with others on the forum who may be interested. I'm not interested in a Epson-Canon war at all. Heck, if the Epson R800 proves to be that good when it arrives, I might get one too. I hope I don't need to get anybody's permission to do that when the time comes, eh?
As for the outgassing, 'melting' problems you highlighted, the guy did say that he wasn't using Canon paper didn't he? I just wholly agreeing with such problems that's all as I have experienced similar problems myself when I experimented with third-party papers myself with my HP and Epson printers. No doubt I would probably encounter such problem if I should do the same thing with my new Canon printer. That's why 99.9% of the time I do prefer to use the original ink/paper combinations. Once in a while, my backside do get itchy, but that's my problem, not anybody else's and I don't blame anybody for it or even the printers involved for that matter.
So relax lah ! It's such a nice day and the weekend is still ahead.
Why get so defensive and worked up over something like this? First of all, I am not and never have been a 'die-hard brand loyallist'. I like to try new technology and have tried Canon, HP and Epson printers at one time or another especially whenever they launch new models that leap-frogged their competitors.
As for users comments on dpreview, those who spend enough time browsing those forums would know that a lot of people there like to complain about their equipment. I always take their comments with a pinch of salt and prefer to find out for myself if the problems are real or not. So although I have read about Epson printers' tendency to clog, make pizza tracks and 'what-have-you', I still went ahead and buy 2 Epson printers for myself. I do like Epson's 6-color and pigment-based printouts very much but I just could not accept the clogging, ink-spitting problems that I personally encountered and the 'need-to-print-regularly' or 'suffer-the- consequences' workflow. I really didn't need to print that regularly and so those printers are not suitable for me. Hence my decision to change my printer when the opportunity arises. If they are suitable for you and never or seldom gave you such problems, I'm happy for you.
As for your post on the R800, it is not available yet and everything is still speculation while the Canon i905 is already available in the market. And since I got one, I just thought to share the features and my experience with it with others on the forum who may be interested. I'm not interested in a Epson-Canon war at all. Heck, if the Epson R800 proves to be that good when it arrives, I might get one too. I hope I don't need to get anybody's permission to do that when the time comes, eh?
As for the outgassing, 'melting' problems you highlighted, the guy did say that he wasn't using Canon paper didn't he? I just wholly agreeing with such problems that's all as I have experienced similar problems myself when I experimented with third-party papers myself with my HP and Epson printers. No doubt I would probably encounter such problem if I should do the same thing with my new Canon printer. That's why 99.9% of the time I do prefer to use the original ink/paper combinations. Once in a while, my backside do get itchy, but that's my problem, not anybody else's and I don't blame anybody for it or even the printers involved for that matter.
So relax lah ! It's such a nice day and the weekend is still ahead.
Erwinx,
Your post is fine. I'm willing to discuss and air out (pun not intended) the issues. However, when the talk veered of to talk about prices of i905 and where to buy the cheapest one, on and on for oh at least 4 posts , tell me, is this not OT, especially when I had warned about it? And still more posts on it.
If the poster wants, they can easily start their own thread. This is more than rude ;( . Early Christmas and price list indeed!
:angry:
As for the pros and cons, I have never done what the other person said: "ignoring the bronzing effect of Epson printers (especially their inability to print on glossy paper)" and "closing our minds against other good brands". I had mentioned the weakness of Epson, while only the Canon users ignore their own, even after I had posted proof of it and then someone else turn around and said the above. Well now, who is closing whose mind?
Makes me never want to use Canon products again, in the totally faint event that I become infected with this kind of attitude. :thumbsd:
Your post is fine. I'm willing to discuss and air out (pun not intended) the issues. However, when the talk veered of to talk about prices of i905 and where to buy the cheapest one, on and on for oh at least 4 posts , tell me, is this not OT, especially when I had warned about it? And still more posts on it.
If the poster wants, they can easily start their own thread. This is more than rude ;( . Early Christmas and price list indeed!
:angry:
As for the pros and cons, I have never done what the other person said: "ignoring the bronzing effect of Epson printers (especially their inability to print on glossy paper)" and "closing our minds against other good brands". I had mentioned the weakness of Epson, while only the Canon users ignore their own, even after I had posted proof of it and then someone else turn around and said the above. Well now, who is closing whose mind?
Makes me never want to use Canon products again, in the totally faint event that I become infected with this kind of attitude. :thumbsd:
yes peace
I think Epson's top of the line printers i.e $1k+++ are very good, unfortunately, not much of a trickle down effect to their consumer printers. Slowly they are changing (eg: individual ink tanks which IMHO is a very important feature). Hopefully the replacement to the 1290 will be something I can think of buying(unlike 2100 which is too pricey).
OT - i am very interested in discussing with others about handling and care of prints (i.e. non epson/canon issues), such as good place to get picture mounts that can be used with A4/A3 printouts
I think Epson's top of the line printers i.e $1k+++ are very good, unfortunately, not much of a trickle down effect to their consumer printers. Slowly they are changing (eg: individual ink tanks which IMHO is a very important feature). Hopefully the replacement to the 1290 will be something I can think of buying(unlike 2100 which is too pricey).
OT - i am very interested in discussing with others about handling and care of prints (i.e. non epson/canon issues), such as good place to get picture mounts that can be used with A4/A3 printouts
To avoid any conflicts, I've started a new thread with Erwinx's topic. Let's continue any discussion from there.
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?p=454411#post454411
Cheers!
http://forums.clubsnap.org/showthread.php?p=454411#post454411
Cheers!
Yeah, I think they should do that in order to make it more competitive. The cut sheet mechanism is now available on some 9xx printers. Individual tanks in the Cxx series (though I am not very interested in 4-color printers). The next cycle will be the R series, with 6-color individual tanks. That will be interesting as the R series seems to be interested in replacing some 9xx series (price point). At US$400, it would come to about S$700 for the R800.erwinx said:yes peace
I think Epson's top of the line printers i.e $1k+++ are very good, unfortunately, not much of a trickle down effect to their consumer printers. Slowly they are changing (eg: individual ink tanks which IMHO is a very important feature). Hopefully the replacement to the 1290 will be something I can think of buying(unlike 2100 which is too pricey).
I think it should be a great printer given the feedback from those who had seen the output at the Photo show in New York. If there is no need to print A3, I think this will be the hottest printer next year!
sykestang
Senior Member
Epson 2100 Points:
- 7 ink tank
- Crisp and good reproduction for Photo printing
- Higher cost in ink as required to purge the ink during cleaning and changing
- Print could Last much longer and does not fade easily
Canon Points:
- Cheaper ink
- Fade prints and does not last
Just wondering why not consider HP here??? Anyone seen HP prints out??? Can any of the Espon and Canon produces metalic colours as real as HP??? To me Espon and Canon brand are still cheapskate brand and cannot compared with HP, however after looking at Espon prints, I can still accept it especially the 2100.
But Canon sucks!!! Canon produces lousy prints, unrealistic colour, printout can't last, printer is designed to spoil in 2yr+ as they uses cheapskate parts. Uses low quality ink thus is much cheaper.
Trust me guys, go for HP is you can afford. Although the ink replacement is much higher, it is worth it. The print nozzle comes with every ink cart and you gets to replace it whenever it clogs badly. As for photo printing technology, HP uses PhotoRet and have already advanced to PhotoRET Pro now. And believe me, my 3yr old HP930C, PhotoRET 3 produces photoquality prints is actually what the current Canon and Epson (except 2100) photo prints, ie Canon and Epson is actually 3yrs backwards to HP technology, so just imagine the current 8ink HP printer that uses PhotoRET Pro technology.
As for the lasting issue, I have a photo printed 3yrs when I bought the printer, it is still crisp and sharp now. But personally I believe the Epson prints could last longer than HP as they have been emphasizing on their lasting prints as their selling point. For HP, they emphasize on PhotoRET quality technology as their selling point.
But for Canon, they only emphasize on cheap pricing, cheap ink, cheap paper, cheap prints... CHEAPSKATE!!! :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:
- 7 ink tank
- Crisp and good reproduction for Photo printing
- Higher cost in ink as required to purge the ink during cleaning and changing
- Print could Last much longer and does not fade easily
Canon Points:
- Cheaper ink
- Fade prints and does not last
Just wondering why not consider HP here??? Anyone seen HP prints out??? Can any of the Espon and Canon produces metalic colours as real as HP??? To me Espon and Canon brand are still cheapskate brand and cannot compared with HP, however after looking at Espon prints, I can still accept it especially the 2100.
But Canon sucks!!! Canon produces lousy prints, unrealistic colour, printout can't last, printer is designed to spoil in 2yr+ as they uses cheapskate parts. Uses low quality ink thus is much cheaper.
Trust me guys, go for HP is you can afford. Although the ink replacement is much higher, it is worth it. The print nozzle comes with every ink cart and you gets to replace it whenever it clogs badly. As for photo printing technology, HP uses PhotoRet and have already advanced to PhotoRET Pro now. And believe me, my 3yr old HP930C, PhotoRET 3 produces photoquality prints is actually what the current Canon and Epson (except 2100) photo prints, ie Canon and Epson is actually 3yrs backwards to HP technology, so just imagine the current 8ink HP printer that uses PhotoRET Pro technology.
As for the lasting issue, I have a photo printed 3yrs when I bought the printer, it is still crisp and sharp now. But personally I believe the Epson prints could last longer than HP as they have been emphasizing on their lasting prints as their selling point. For HP, they emphasize on PhotoRET quality technology as their selling point.
But for Canon, they only emphasize on cheap pricing, cheap ink, cheap paper, cheap prints... CHEAPSKATE!!! :bsmilie: :bsmilie: :bsmilie:
I'm on mail group for Contax & one of the topics there discussed clogged nozzles. Recommendation by a poster :
========================================================
Posted by Lynn Loeffel (Writing4me) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 5:16 pm:
Hi Alan, You have a good memory. I was the one who posted that. The
information was given to me by the repair shop within the Apple dealer
I had bought some computer gear from. I use this remedy on my Epson
1520 with regular ink cartridges. I'm not sure what country you are
in, but I buy a small bottle of "Professional Tape Head Cleaner" (in
reference to music cassette tape heads) from the local Radio Shack
store, and use it with cotton swabs (Q-Tip Swabs).
It's amazingly simple. Remove the ink cartridges that you have in the
printer. The place there the cartridges were seated is where I clean.
There is nothing to take apart. If there is a great deal of ink dried
in that area, I will let a few drops of the cleaner sit and do its
work for a few moments. Otherwise, I just keep dipping clean cotton
swabs in the liquid and rubbing it in the spot where the cartridges
get seated until it comes out virtually clean. (Might take a while
depending how inky yours is)
Replace the cartridges and run a cleaning cycle and a test print
through the utilities and see how it looks. Print a small test print
and see how things look. If need be, repeat the process, but I
generally don't need to with mine. I do this periodically to avoid
heavy cleanings.
I've also tried the "cleaning heads" sold by Ink4Art, but they don't
seem to do a good job for me on heavy ink debris. I do love their ink
though, and find it to be about 1/4 to 1/5 of what I pay for OEM Epson
cartridges. I buy their products all the time. http://www.ink4art.com/
Do remember to turn off your printer when you are done with it. That
does help avoid ink leakages. I was told by the Ink4Art people that
the only people who should leave their printers on all day long are
businesses that run their printers constantly, other people should
turn theirs off when not used.
If you need any clarification, feel free to ask. I hope this works out
for you.
Best,Lynn
=====================================================
try it ! might work
darkavgr
========================================================
Posted by Lynn Loeffel (Writing4me) on Saturday, November 29, 2003 - 5:16 pm:
Hi Alan, You have a good memory. I was the one who posted that. The
information was given to me by the repair shop within the Apple dealer
I had bought some computer gear from. I use this remedy on my Epson
1520 with regular ink cartridges. I'm not sure what country you are
in, but I buy a small bottle of "Professional Tape Head Cleaner" (in
reference to music cassette tape heads) from the local Radio Shack
store, and use it with cotton swabs (Q-Tip Swabs).
It's amazingly simple. Remove the ink cartridges that you have in the
printer. The place there the cartridges were seated is where I clean.
There is nothing to take apart. If there is a great deal of ink dried
in that area, I will let a few drops of the cleaner sit and do its
work for a few moments. Otherwise, I just keep dipping clean cotton
swabs in the liquid and rubbing it in the spot where the cartridges
get seated until it comes out virtually clean. (Might take a while
depending how inky yours is)
Replace the cartridges and run a cleaning cycle and a test print
through the utilities and see how it looks. Print a small test print
and see how things look. If need be, repeat the process, but I
generally don't need to with mine. I do this periodically to avoid
heavy cleanings.
I've also tried the "cleaning heads" sold by Ink4Art, but they don't
seem to do a good job for me on heavy ink debris. I do love their ink
though, and find it to be about 1/4 to 1/5 of what I pay for OEM Epson
cartridges. I buy their products all the time. http://www.ink4art.com/
Do remember to turn off your printer when you are done with it. That
does help avoid ink leakages. I was told by the Ink4Art people that
the only people who should leave their printers on all day long are
businesses that run their printers constantly, other people should
turn theirs off when not used.
If you need any clarification, feel free to ask. I hope this works out
for you.
Best,Lynn
=====================================================
try it ! might work
darkavgr
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