Tapeless Solution, which camera to get?

[acewind]

Hi

Looking to get a pro camera that does not run on MinDV.

Currently looking at Camera that record on SDHC cards. Seems like only JVC GY-HM100E or similar & Panasonic HMC 152 runs on them. Is it advisable to get a camera that records on SDHC Cards? The reason why i choose HCSD recording media as it is cheaper then P2 Cards. It is a wise choice? 32GB P2 Card about 2.5k whereas SDHC less then $200. Is the video quality as good as recorded on P2 cards? Will SDHC technology obsolete soon?

Also, I shortlist JVC & Panasonic because unlike Sony, I can get a genetic SDHC Card, Sony requires to get SONY type of Media Card.

Another concern I have will be as I need to edit record footage in a short period of time, the format it record on also matters. I understand HMC152 records AVCHD, how easy it is to edit on Non-Linear Editing System? like Premiere? Do I need to convert and such?

Taking into Consideration of my needs, which camera do you recommend?

 

[isaryan]

From the looks of it, you already answered some of your question. You mentioned budget that sway your consideration to the Pana and JVC. Yes! the Pana and Sony has their own reason for the proprietary cards. P2 and SXS.

Same like me, what I did was search for online forums. Make own list of pros and cons. Ergonomics? Budget? End result? Rent? but in the end of the day, you can't go wrong with the two.

Same like the extra budget going for other 'things' eg better head and tripod, extra battery etc.

IMO a bit worried about not having an extra backup of tape. I saw the HMX152 online samples and reviews from DV mag. Quite nice actually. Im already spent much using the PD170P and might be upgrading to another good cam also. Canon XAH1?Z7P? Advice will go for Sony since I have Sony batts and such, but I also like Canon's color treatment.

Hmm...:think: still thinking

 

[jaegersing]

I've been using a Canon XH-A1 for over 2 years now, and also felt the need to get away from tape capturing. But the super high cost of P2 and SxS cards really puts me off the cams that use these. On top of that, the thought of losing my tape archive made me uncomfortable.

The AVCHD format on SD card is not very robust yet and takes a lot of processor to edit smoothly. Maybe later it will be a good solution, but my feeling is that it is not ready yet.

So my preferred solution, which works great for now, was to buy a Sony HVR-MRC1K CF Card Recorder to use with my XH-A1. I now shoot with both tape and CF card simultaneously, and for editing use file copying instead of tape capture which is much faster. The file format is HDV standard m2t which is quite manageable for editing. And I still have my tape copies in a drybox as an archive in case I might need to go back to the original source in the future.

I know this is not a long term solution, but quite frankly, with technology changing so quickly, I don't believe anything is really long term any more. I'm hoping this setup can last until we get large sensors and shallow depth of field on affordable video cams. Given the recent developments on DSLRs, it shouldn't be too long to wait.

 

[acewind]

Thank you both for your advise and insight.

Has anyone try editing AVCHD before on Premiere CS4 before? Does the software provide enough 'support' to AVCHD?

To choose between JVC & Panansonic, which 1 will be better?
The good thing about JVC is that
The GY-HM100 incorporates JVC's Native File Recording technology that stores video in the ready-to-edit format used by Apple's Final Cut Pro™ non-linear editing system. The ".mov" files created in the camera can be easily dragged onto the NLE timeline without conversion or rewrapping, saving time while keeping the recorded material first generation. There is no need to use an intermediate codec.

However, the technology AVCHD was developed by Panasonic & Sony.

Also, the reliability of SDHC cards. I don't know how shock resistance these cards are. P2 definitely is more shock resistance. Also, does the brand of SDHC (Like Kingston, Sandisk) matters when used in JVC or Panasonic?

Any advise, comments appreciated

 

[Bamboopictures]

Patience. Do not invest in any camcorder over USD1000 for now or you'll be screaming blue murder when you see next year's line-up.

 

[TsQ]

Patience. Do not invest in any camcorder over USD1000 for now or you'll be screaming blue murder when you see next year's line-up.

if the person can wait till next yr then buy, means he dont really need it but just want it for fun.

also by next yr... that person's kid already can walk/talk... haha

 

[Desertfox]

Cheap & good. AVCHD is the way to go. No drop frames, just slot in an SD card to reload and as we go along, SD card gets cheaper and bigger every few months!

Editing: You can download a software from Panasonic that converts the AVCHD file to .avi for you to edit the footage. So all you need is a big hard disk. (Which is also getting cheaper every month.)

 

[TsQ]

i hv no problem editing avchd.. plenty of video editing software now supports it .. ONLY problem is my PC not fast to hv things going smoothly.. so every step hv to wait longer for it to load..

 

[alternus]

I do not know how smooth it is to edit the mpg4 AVCHD on a mac with FCP, but once you throw in a couple of filters, it is not smooth to edit on a PC even with the quad core i7 processor,
I'll expect AVCHD users to convert them to AVI prior to editing. But if the time needed for conversion is 1 to 1, then it is better off using tape-based cams.

I feel that AVCHD is still currently best suited for consumer camcorder users who do not need to edit professionally, but merely need to archive.


I'm using the sony Z7 that records .m2t files to CF cards. Each of my 32GB CF card costs approx SGD$150 last yr when i bought them. They should be even cheaper by now. Their writing speeds are 280X (min req is 133X). Lasts 2.5 hrs each.

I'll recommend the sony Z5 with the Z7's CF recording device (the one that Jaegersing has). Total shld be below SGD8K. It may be a solution for you if you need a cam now. If not, should wait for Canon to offer flash-based solutions for their professional cams.

 

[TsQ]

alternus... also depands on the software... some needs power hungry processor.. some don't, despite both also handles AVCHD.. in my case i uses cyberlink power director.. one of the porgram i find that dont need so much PC power.

but if u were to buy these pro cams.. i think one shld think about upgrading their PC as looking at the way it is.. AVCHD seems to be staying ard for sometime from now on..

 

[acewind]

alternus can you share with me your pc specs?

I currently running i7 920 processor with 6gb ddr3 ram. editing on premiere cs4. Do you think such spec can support AVCHD editing? Also, does graphic card matters?

 

[alternus]

TsQ, I agree with you that AVCHD is the way to go in the future. Support of it is growing. Now we just have to wait for Intel and NLE software companies to catch up...

Acewind, I have the same PC specs as you (cheap and good! my tower was sub 1.5K. I dun do RAID anymore. No need.). I've just tried out a few 18mbits/sec AVCHD files (HDV is equivalent to 9mbits/sec) captured by the Panny 150 on a trial copy of CS4. With the AVCHD project settings, playback (without any effects/filters) was not smooth on my workstation (my PC can preview HDV content very smoothly with a RGB curves and a couple more effects thrown in). With the AVCH files there are visible juttering of frames and huge chunks of pixelation in the preview window as I merely played it.
When I threw in the RGB curves to adjust the colors, playback slowed down slightly more. The rendering of the 1.5 min footage (with the RGB curves) to mpg2 DVD's m2v & wav files took 9mins.

I think its still generally good for editing AVCHD files as long as you are not dealing with a time-critical project e.g. wedding express highlights that you need to screen at the wedding banquet on the same day!

BTW, graphics cards (I mean the usual cards meant for display on your LCD) does not matter for video-editing or even photoshop. The expensive graphics cards that are commonly available at SLS are designed more for 3D gaming. They are usually optimized for OpenGL accelerations (i.e. 3D graphics library functions for the laymen like us). Video and photos editing deals with raster graphics. I've always purchased the cheapest graphics card whenever I configure a video-editing workstation. My current graphics card in my i7core tower costs me only $79.

However, if you are refering to video cards like the Decklink series by Blackmagic or like the Matrox cards, then that will be a totally different story. Those are the REAL video cards that helps in video-editing. For they comes with effects/filters that are specially written for your NLE to harness the processing power of the card.

Anway, for video, invest in the processor and/or a real video card.