Suggesting age limit for models

[vince123123]

I don't have actual experience, but I doubt if any bother to do an age check simply because I'm not aware that there is no legal obligation to do so.

How do Event Organisers cover this situation? :think:

 

[redstone]

-double post deleted-

 

[redstone]

wah lao, what are you talking about here?? is that part of the photo shoot??

come on, show some respect to the models and the photographers, may have some black sheep amount here, but all people are like that.

That's for sexual intercouse - are we talking about sexual intercourse here?

No... but since our lawmakers decide to use that age as such (mature enough to do it), why not we follow, since it's more or less along the same lines. Or at any age where the models are mature enough to make sound and wise decisions for themselves.

Yes, a shoot has nothing to do with this, I'm meerly saying using this law as a guideline.

Ok enough of OT.

 

[vince123123]

There are many age guidelines, but you have chosen to most onerous one, ie 16 years old for sex.

There's 18 years old for R rated movies

There's 21 years old for voting

There's 18/21 for legal capacity to enter into a contract.

If you want to follow guidelines, which do you follow?

No... but since our lawmakers decide to use that age as such (mature enough to do it), why not we follow, since it's more or less along the same lines. Or at any age where the models are mature enough to make sound and wise decisions for themselves.

Yes, a shoot has nothing to do with this, I'm meerly saying using this law as a guideline.

Ok enough of OT.

 

[redstone]

There are many age guidelines, but you have chosen to most onerous one, ie 16 years old for sex.

There's 18 years old for R rated movies

There's 21 years old for voting

There's 18/21 for legal capacity to enter into a contract.

If you want to follow guidelines, which do you follow?

As I said before, and I say again, what I am giving is only an EXAMPLE. Since you asked "age of consent", I gave it to you. Why are you still asking me why I gave 16 as an example, its just an example, simple as that.

So I can rephrase my first post and make it "18" and people would ask me why 18 so I would say its maturity age (M18 movies, army, etc), and people would ask why I gave that as an ecample.:bsmilie:

And so we have 16, 18 and 21. Which one you ask me? I would say 18 (you asked me why i gave 16 as an example, so I gave my explanation)

 

[blazer_workz]

Out of curiosity..would u want to shoot a model, say 15 or 16yrs old, with the parents tagging along? :dunno:

 

[blazer_workz]

As I said before, and I say again, what I am giving is only an EXAMPLE. Since you asked "age of consent", I gave it to you. Why are you still asking me why I gave 16 as an example, its just an example, simple as that.

So I can rephrase my first post and make it "18" and people would ask me why 18 so I would say its maturity age (M18 movies, army, etc), and people would ask why I gave that as an ecample.:bsmilie:

And so we have 16, 18 and 21. Which one you ask me? I would say 18 (you asked me why i gave 16 as an example, so I gave my explanation)

Is 16 legal mehz? I tot is above 16..:think:
16 still have to face the rattan..:sweat:

 

[obfuscate]

I think the point of all this discussion to to find a way to avoid a situation of Clubsnap being associated as a source for sleaze, but rather a place for responsible photography.

Age limits does not ensure this. For one thing, maturity is hard to gauge. Anthother thing, whether someone is 16, 18 or 20 years old, it does not mean that they will understand the impact of what they are doing as it is little to do with maturity.

I do think that limiting the age will help, but I think responsible organisers will help even more.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

Out of curiosity..would u want to shoot a model, say 15 or 16yrs old, with the parents tagging along? :dunno:

as long as the parents dun get upset & thrash the photographer's equipement, fine. but the notion seems strange, for parents to tag along. do parents tag along their children for an overnight stays (think outward bound camps, or those by uniformed groups) organised by schools for that matter? :dunno:

 

[Lumiere]

This is a photography forum not a photography cum modelling

so why not charge models advertising fees if they wanna look for services here...since they wanna get paid shoot of course must pay a fee otherwise wat? free advertising?

like buy sell forum...they have ratings for the quality of the products at 10 being mint... so 10 is like highly experience level...so if those no experience ones cannot just come and $50/hr

For modelling service offered

They should have
- rate per hr
- experience 0-10
- portfolio url
- email
- limitations/restrictions/others

then charge them to the amount that the shoot organisers are paying for advertising.
This way...those really cheapo / underage / poor student / models would steer clear and standards may increase too...I believe that problems will reduce significantly

 

[sORe-EyEz]

I think the point of all this discussion to to find a way to avoid a situation of Clubsnap being associated as a source for sleaze, but rather a place for responsible photography.

Age limits does not ensure this. For one thing, maturity is hard to gauge. Anthother thing, whether someone is 16, 18 or 20 years old, it does not mean that they will understand the impact of what they are doing as it is little to do with maturity.

I do think that limiting the age will help, but I think responsible organisers will help even more.

eh, i think laws with said age limit is not going to debate about an individual's maturity- unless IQ not in the normal range lah... :sweat:

if so, how did age limit for sexual or violent content (for movies, games) get passed without raising any hoohaa?.. contrary to wad is happening here? :think:

 

[sORe-EyEz]

ratings?

. newbie
. wannabe
. semi-pro
. pro
. retired? :bsmilie:

 

[Lumiere]

ratings?

. newbie
. wannabe
. semi-pro
. pro
. retired? :bsmilie:

retired belongs to those auditioning for the new mcdonald's grannie model

 

[CYRN]

Should such limitations and ratings be applied to photogs as well?

 

[sORe-EyEz]

Should such limitations and ratings be applied to photogs as well?

yes, it should. but there's always people pointing out how un-feasible such measures can be.

i am all for it. the age limit on models & photographers- & even model organisers, each & every 1 partaking in it counts.

 

[lightbrush]

If so, sites like Facebook or Friendster or any site for that matter, also need to watch themselves already, which we know they don't.

It is up to the individuals themselves to know what they are posting about, and for their parents to educate them. Not for corporations or entities to police them. So many people trawl friendster or facebook looking for targets - does it mean that if friednster or facebook dont impose age limits, they will be censured? In the same vein, I doubt CS will be as "implicated" as you seem. TNP just blows up things to sell newspapers. If the next article talks about "Wolves go to Friendster to find young girls for sex" - do you think Friendster will bother imposing limitations?

As for statistics - a basic requirement in modelling is to have statistics published. Go to any reputable modelling website and you see that all the time. I'm not sure what you are trying to drive at, but would you say, buy a PC where you don't know what parts it comprises of? It doesn't help to play on emotive reactions. When hiring a model, agencies/directors/photographers all look at statistics before even calling for a casting session - sorry to say that perhaps you haven't been exposed to the real life sitautions on how models are selected.

You say that CS can hold personal information and show due dilligence - imagine the next TNP fallout - "Hacker hacks into CLubsnap and makes away with personal data of young females and stalkers abound!". Its the same thing here.

Just because Facebook or Friendster decide not to act does not mean Clubsnap must follow likewise. Clubsnap cannot claim ignorance of what's happening and what potentially could happen given the publicity of lechers preying on young girls behind the facade of photography. As I have mentioned earlier, this issue goes beyond legal obligations. Clubsnap, being aware of what's happening, must act socially responsible and ensure that young girls are not prey to such sexual predators. Clubsnap must not knowingly allow itself to be used as a vehicle for such predators to carry out their depraved criminal acts.

This issue is not about selecting models. Young local girls of 15,16,17 or even 18 are impressionable and just starting out in the working world. The lure of being a model and earning money is irresistable. The chances of being taken advantage of at that tender young age is very high and there are many people out there waiting to do so.

Clubsnap will need to exercise due diligence and put in place reasonable security measures to ensure its data is not compromised. If stalkers hacked into because they want to make away with data of young females, then that's too bad. No website is 100% hack-proof if the hackers are determined enough and have the resources to do so. As webmaster, you just do what is reasonable given the nature of the data and website.

Some of the forumners here have made good suggestions. Putting an age requirement and proof of age is the right way forward. Clubsnap need to be pro-active and not wait for things to happen before taking action. Hiding behind the reason that it is not legally responsible for the acts of its members is immature and socially irresponsible.

Don't wait for something to happen. It may be too late and everyone here who enjoys this website will suffer because of a few irresponsible lechers acting as "photographers".

 

[Octarine]

There are many age guidelines, but you have chosen to most onerous one, ie 16 years old for sex. [...]
There's 18/21 for legal capacity to enter into a contract.

For me that's the point that counts and which makes sense. First of all let's focus on the contractual situation. Professional models advertising their service have a contract with CS (payment for listing). So the age check should be done by the admins to make sure they enter a valid contract with the respective model. Personal information are to be kept as to what is necessary for contract fulfillment, preferable offline.
Anybody hiring a professional model has a contract with the model or the agency, independently from the contract between CS and the model. Both contracts are sufficiently regulated by the laws of SG. No need to invent anything twice. If a model is below the legal age of entering contracts than the standard applies: get the parents permission. The same goes for photographers. TFCD shootings are a contract as well, it's "Time for CD" agreement. Can be verbally but also can be written down. Anybody in his proper state of mind will want to write down a few lines about addresses and other things, some people even want MR forms. So it's a contract as well.
I don't see a need for CS admins to become an 'age check authority'. They are not involved in the photoshootings, CS is just the platform to get like minded people together.

 

[sORe-EyEz]

Don't wait for something to happen. It may be too late and everyone here who enjoys this website will suffer because of a few irresponsible lechers acting as "photographers".

maybe some prefer for something big (& bad) to happen then react? thatz human nature, "not rocking the boat"...

 

[yqt]

All this started from paid shoots, first is a paid shoots where the theme of the shoot is less than desireable and the standard of the shoot is called into question.
Another is the shoot where the age of the model and, again, the theme is called into question.
I think we need to upgrade the standard of the shoot org.er. with better and more professionally run shoots, the standard of the model will improve and hopefully, so will the level of photography.
As for the age of models, CS, being a private site is well within their rights to determine at what age it would discourage models from accepting "sexy" shoots.

Just my thoughs

 

[CYRN]

If so, sites like Facebook or Friendster or any site for that matter, also need to watch themselves already, which we know they don't.

.....

hmmm... I tot I remembered something like that happening before... but juz didn't follow it.


http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/07/29/business/facebook.php

http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/12/magazines/fortune/net_child_safety.fortune/index.htm