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Rightly so but then again, we all know that we don't live in a perfect world.
And yes, you are right.. there are also those who post for the sake for having someone masturbate their ego but these are few and far between... as it stands, there are quite a few genuine members here who are keen on learning...
But whatever the case may be, we all here to share, learn and improve...
I
ivan_limm
Guest
"but..but" what?
i saw the thread but what's your point or what are you trying to prove? that people are posting because they want praise? or that you're free enough to search and dig up a thread that had been posted months ago?
i saw the thread but what's your point or what are you trying to prove? that people are posting because they want praise? or that you're free enough to search and dig up a thread that had been posted months ago?
CYRN
Senior Member
Firstly, I'd like to clarify that this is only my personal point of view.
Photography is the ability to capture a pic that you are able to share with others, this means the pics you take have to be intepreated and understood by others. In most cases, everyone have their own opinons and it will differ from the photographer's intent. It's then the photographer's perogrative to explain his/her interpreation.
CS have offered a unique forum where newbie can comfortably post their shots and get critique... some gets blasted others gets praises. If the intent is to improve, I'm sure you'll see it in the post.
Most of all, see the link to understand that sometimes, acceptance matters to most photographers.
Sunday Morning - LL
sounds like a war zone out here...
as a newbie to both this forum and to photography, allow me to say a few words...
i am not qualified and neither do i surf ard often enuff to know wat the good pics are and wat the bad ones are although i have freinds that tell me that offstone has better pics and critiques....
well... that might be true but is it the best ard? there would be somewhere else with better photos and somewhere else and more... i dun think that forums are build ard the quality of its member's work.. i feel that that is but one aspect of things.. there is so much more. i'm not part of cs founding members and i dun know teh mission statment or objective is but i do recall reading abt the origins and its about a group of pple who have a love for photyography getting together.
what does this forum mean to me? in here, i have found answers to some of my questions to photography, a supportive environment, helpful and fun people around and in a way, i feel that it adds to a significant part of the identity of this forum. all of us are photographers, some good some bad but if u take photos, u are a photographer and i feel that this should not be a place only for good photographers. people who post, for whatever reason, at least they have pride in their work good or bad and to me that in itself is good and we rely on others to improve. not just our shoting but others. in my short time here, i have seen so many people starting out and not knowing where to get stuff or what to get or how to shoot something getting advise and that.. believe me from a newbies pt of view, is more valuable than a course on how to shoot. why? coz once u have an interest, u can chase and choose to go as far as u like and here, i find the support i need. thats what counts!
while good photos are good to have and we all share and learn, i feel that it should not be a be all and end all. those who are better, help the ones starting out and those who can't take criticism of their works.. well.. to ecah his own, liek buy and sell, people sell ex, you want to buy your prob. you post ur work, pple criticise, your problem.
as for equipment, enough has been said about good equipment and lousy shots, how about look at it another way? if you can afford, equipment does help to a certain extend and it could be a case of "i feel i'm lousy so i cannot use manual cam, i need the auto focus and metering to help me and i can afford so buy the best lor" equipment is an aid to taking a good pic and some pple need more. people who just blindly collect and don't shoot? this forum serves them in its own ways, can't stop them right? like i say, it takes al sorts to make up the world and i think this diversity serves to make this place what it is and unless its going against what the founders envisioned, from what i see, clubsnap is doing a good job.
of course liek all things, always space for improvment but from a newbie and essentially neutral persons point of you, i think the founders have a lot to be proud of.
:thumbsup:
my 2cents...
as a newbie to both this forum and to photography, allow me to say a few words...
i am not qualified and neither do i surf ard often enuff to know wat the good pics are and wat the bad ones are although i have freinds that tell me that offstone has better pics and critiques....
well... that might be true but is it the best ard? there would be somewhere else with better photos and somewhere else and more... i dun think that forums are build ard the quality of its member's work.. i feel that that is but one aspect of things.. there is so much more. i'm not part of cs founding members and i dun know teh mission statment or objective is but i do recall reading abt the origins and its about a group of pple who have a love for photyography getting together.
what does this forum mean to me? in here, i have found answers to some of my questions to photography, a supportive environment, helpful and fun people around and in a way, i feel that it adds to a significant part of the identity of this forum. all of us are photographers, some good some bad but if u take photos, u are a photographer and i feel that this should not be a place only for good photographers. people who post, for whatever reason, at least they have pride in their work good or bad and to me that in itself is good and we rely on others to improve. not just our shoting but others. in my short time here, i have seen so many people starting out and not knowing where to get stuff or what to get or how to shoot something getting advise and that.. believe me from a newbies pt of view, is more valuable than a course on how to shoot. why? coz once u have an interest, u can chase and choose to go as far as u like and here, i find the support i need. thats what counts!
while good photos are good to have and we all share and learn, i feel that it should not be a be all and end all. those who are better, help the ones starting out and those who can't take criticism of their works.. well.. to ecah his own, liek buy and sell, people sell ex, you want to buy your prob. you post ur work, pple criticise, your problem.
as for equipment, enough has been said about good equipment and lousy shots, how about look at it another way? if you can afford, equipment does help to a certain extend and it could be a case of "i feel i'm lousy so i cannot use manual cam, i need the auto focus and metering to help me and i can afford so buy the best lor" equipment is an aid to taking a good pic and some pple need more. people who just blindly collect and don't shoot? this forum serves them in its own ways, can't stop them right? like i say, it takes al sorts to make up the world and i think this diversity serves to make this place what it is and unless its going against what the founders envisioned, from what i see, clubsnap is doing a good job.
of course liek all things, always space for improvment but from a newbie and essentially neutral persons point of you, i think the founders have a lot to be proud of.
:thumbsup:
my 2cents...
My two cents worth.
For those of you who start the yak and stereotype others about having pro equiptment and having mediocre photography skills, it is not your prerogative.
It is not much different from cars and houses. Somewhere in this thread, some words suggests an underlying tone of jealousy.
Spare us the rubbish.
For those of you who start the yak and stereotype others about having pro equiptment and having mediocre photography skills, it is not your prerogative.
It is not much different from cars and houses. Somewhere in this thread, some words suggests an underlying tone of jealousy.
Spare us the rubbish.
who cares? frankly this runs along the same idea as the complaints about signatures.
one man's meat is another poison, u can gripe and justify till kingdom come but it remains a subjective topic.
I say live and let live. until the day where bad photographs have an ISO rating I suggest leave it alone: they have every right to post what they want, be it from vanity or from passion to learn.
and then, I of course round it off by saying u can gripe all u want too, since this is a forum for everyone (within limits). it's a forum for them it's a forum for you.
one man's meat is another poison, u can gripe and justify till kingdom come but it remains a subjective topic.
I say live and let live. until the day where bad photographs have an ISO rating I suggest leave it alone: they have every right to post what they want, be it from vanity or from passion to learn.
and then, I of course round it off by saying u can gripe all u want too, since this is a forum for everyone (within limits). it's a forum for them it's a forum for you.
S
SouL81
Guest
Ivan i dun quite agree wif u ...
Yes. Offstone is definitly a better org than CS tats definite (in term of coopration, organisation, standards, aspiration(eg. Lance aims), etc).. cose they do have quite a bunch of professionals there ....
Yes. Cs have alot of newbie n mostly the active members are usually not professionals..... but we do have some delicated individuals
n Yes. There is definitely a differing standard between the two.... but there is nothing wrong wif this....
Most of the ppl in CS are still learning.. many of whom have no basic in photography..... n of course the pic most r not of tat great .. but this is the learning process ... We r all here to learn.
There r ppl out there who pose pic ...cose they wan to share their experience abroad n some who wan critics n others who merely wan to show others wat they think is beautiful.
I think there is nothing wrong wif it. If all of us r so good .. then we would not have to post pic already .. isnt it?
I think:
to help CSers to increase their standard there shld be more remarks n crtics when those ppl who pose ask 4 them... critics such as "i think ur pic is great", "i like ur pic" does not help .... viewers shld give more professional remarks... n give reason why the photo works n why not.....
I do realise that there r seldom critics to e photos posed. If we would wan to move up we would have to critise constructively n be humble at the same time..... we r all learning... n shld give each other a helping hand.
Jus some unorganised feelings that i have.....
Yes. Offstone is definitly a better org than CS tats definite (in term of coopration, organisation, standards, aspiration(eg. Lance aims), etc).. cose they do have quite a bunch of professionals there ....
Yes. Cs have alot of newbie n mostly the active members are usually not professionals..... but we do have some delicated individuals
n Yes. There is definitely a differing standard between the two.... but there is nothing wrong wif this....
Most of the ppl in CS are still learning.. many of whom have no basic in photography..... n of course the pic most r not of tat great .. but this is the learning process ... We r all here to learn.
There r ppl out there who pose pic ...cose they wan to share their experience abroad n some who wan critics n others who merely wan to show others wat they think is beautiful.
I think there is nothing wrong wif it. If all of us r so good .. then we would not have to post pic already .. isnt it?
I think:
to help CSers to increase their standard there shld be more remarks n crtics when those ppl who pose ask 4 them... critics such as "i think ur pic is great", "i like ur pic" does not help .... viewers shld give more professional remarks... n give reason why the photo works n why not.....
I do realise that there r seldom critics to e photos posed. If we would wan to move up we would have to critise constructively n be humble at the same time..... we r all learning... n shld give each other a helping hand.
Jus some unorganised feelings that i have.....
T
technophobe
Guest
Pardon me for my intrusion, pls kindly allow me to say my 2 cents worth.
I'm being lurking around both the mentioned forums, thus i would like to voice out my own point of view. Personally i agree with ivan_limm to a certain extent. Pardon me if you feel offended by what i'm going to say next.
It's true that we all started with a passion for photography, but i's aren't hard to notice that here in clubsnap, it soon beome a craze to keep up with the latest cameras on the market. And it seems that who ever own the most expensive camera here would be deem as a professional and command the respect of others. At least this is what i felt after lurking around in this forum, reading the threads faithfully. Thou it's true that an expensive camera might help to boost one's ego but let us not forget that having a good camera doesn't necessary means shooting good photographs. I bet there are some pretty good example here without me mentioning names.
I guess back to square one, it depends on how ones define photography? Hardwares or photographs? For some it might be deem that having the latest and most high-end camera would make him/she a professional photograhper whereby some would not heed so much attention to the hardware and focus on attaining better composition and yielding better photographs.
Generally i do agree with ivan_limm that the standard of photographs posted at offstone is much higher than the ones posted here in clubsnap. Perhaps clubsnappers should take this feedback from ivan_limm and me more constructively, instead of jumping into agressive defence?
Just my 2cents worth, please kindly ignore my post if you find it provocating ;p
I'm being lurking around both the mentioned forums, thus i would like to voice out my own point of view. Personally i agree with ivan_limm to a certain extent. Pardon me if you feel offended by what i'm going to say next.
It's true that we all started with a passion for photography, but i's aren't hard to notice that here in clubsnap, it soon beome a craze to keep up with the latest cameras on the market. And it seems that who ever own the most expensive camera here would be deem as a professional and command the respect of others. At least this is what i felt after lurking around in this forum, reading the threads faithfully. Thou it's true that an expensive camera might help to boost one's ego but let us not forget that having a good camera doesn't necessary means shooting good photographs. I bet there are some pretty good example here without me mentioning names.
I guess back to square one, it depends on how ones define photography? Hardwares or photographs? For some it might be deem that having the latest and most high-end camera would make him/she a professional photograhper whereby some would not heed so much attention to the hardware and focus on attaining better composition and yielding better photographs.
Generally i do agree with ivan_limm that the standard of photographs posted at offstone is much higher than the ones posted here in clubsnap. Perhaps clubsnappers should take this feedback from ivan_limm and me more constructively, instead of jumping into agressive defence?
Just my 2cents worth, please kindly ignore my post if you find it provocating ;p
I
ivan_limm
Guest
hi dehuis, i appreciate your objective opinion, it highlights both sides of clubsnap.
but when i started out this thread just a few hours ago, I was merely stating an opinion. Not a fact as I know people's opinion's are rather subjective.
though i said I felt the standard of photography here at clubsnap was low, there are still some redeeming factors. Like the fact that when newbies ask a question, there are usually many friendly people here to help out which I feel is very good.
The buy and sell section is also pretty good as well as some of the informative articles.
Though the forum started out with good intentions among a group of people who love photography, sometimes things don't always turn out the way it was expected to. I'm sure many continue coming here for their love of photography but what i'm highlighting is that a lot of posts i've seen is something regarding equipment and along those lines, you know what I mean.
However, let me get back to what the thread is all about. Standard of photography here is pretty low in my humble opinion. I know photography is subjective and therefore some will think its good whereas other with think its bad. I'm just stating an opinion.
Also, I'm afraid I might have hit a raw nerve with people who own good equipment but take crap pictures, so i'm sorry Parchiao if I have offended you
but when i started out this thread just a few hours ago, I was merely stating an opinion. Not a fact as I know people's opinion's are rather subjective.
though i said I felt the standard of photography here at clubsnap was low, there are still some redeeming factors. Like the fact that when newbies ask a question, there are usually many friendly people here to help out which I feel is very good.
The buy and sell section is also pretty good as well as some of the informative articles.
Though the forum started out with good intentions among a group of people who love photography, sometimes things don't always turn out the way it was expected to. I'm sure many continue coming here for their love of photography but what i'm highlighting is that a lot of posts i've seen is something regarding equipment and along those lines, you know what I mean.
However, let me get back to what the thread is all about. Standard of photography here is pretty low in my humble opinion. I know photography is subjective and therefore some will think its good whereas other with think its bad. I'm just stating an opinion.
Also, I'm afraid I might have hit a raw nerve with people who own good equipment but take crap pictures, so i'm sorry Parchiao if I have offended you
And jumping right in...
it's good to see everyone being able to voice out and have this thread still remain civil (up to now).
Well, all in all, we will always have some differences in opinions. That's what makes us individuals...
Now, having standards or not, or having equipment-measurebators here and there doesn't a bad forum make.
There will always be people who lust after equipment. Let them be. Live and let live. So long you know, in your heart, what you are doing, then so be it.
Yes, some of us here might feel abit put off by people who behave as such but well, this is a community, a forum and place where people from different walks of life interact and share (or flame).
So, well, lets just keep sharing.
it's good to see everyone being able to voice out and have this thread still remain civil (up to now).
Well, all in all, we will always have some differences in opinions. That's what makes us individuals...
Now, having standards or not, or having equipment-measurebators here and there doesn't a bad forum make.
There will always be people who lust after equipment. Let them be. Live and let live. So long you know, in your heart, what you are doing, then so be it.
Yes, some of us here might feel abit put off by people who behave as such but well, this is a community, a forum and place where people from different walks of life interact and share (or flame).
So, well, lets just keep sharing.
Ivan, admittingly sometimes I have the same thoughts as you do.
But like you said, it's an opinion, just that I chose not to state mine. You did, and it was good. Maybe this bout of discussion did wake some equipment-conscious people up.
At the end of the day, I still appreciate clubsnap, for its wonderful people (well, most and not all) and the chance for photo-enthusiasts to share their works, be it bad or not. Oh yes, not forgetting, for all who want to improve, to improve.
Cheers.
But like you said, it's an opinion, just that I chose not to state mine. You did, and it was good. Maybe this bout of discussion did wake some equipment-conscious people up.
At the end of the day, I still appreciate clubsnap, for its wonderful people (well, most and not all) and the chance for photo-enthusiasts to share their works, be it bad or not. Oh yes, not forgetting, for all who want to improve, to improve.
Cheers.
isomers007
Senior Member
i guess this argument's not going to be finished. and it's forever on debate here. i say that everyone contribute by posting more photos and/or critique more.
peace~
peace~
Originally posted by Tweek
Ivan, admittingly sometimes I have the same thoughts as you do.
But like you said, it's an opinion, just that I chose not to state mine. You did, and it was good. Maybe this bout of discussion did wake some equipment-conscious people up.
At the end of the day, I still appreciate clubsnap, for its wonderful people (well, most and not all) and the chance for photo-enthusiasts to share their works, be it bad or not. Oh yes, not forgetting, for all who want to improve, to improve.
Cheers.
Clap! Clap! Clap! :thumbsup:
If you visit 2 forum frequent enuff, you will see that some post there but not here. Why?
The post here is moving too fast to have a pic leaving much impact more of the time.
IMHO, both forum cater to different group of people. There, nothing wrong with what is happening.
I have been bashed when I comment on some pic. Go figure.
Now, I keep my opinion on pic that is posted by those that I think can't take the comment.
The post here is moving too fast to have a pic leaving much impact more of the time.
IMHO, both forum cater to different group of people. There, nothing wrong with what is happening.
I have been bashed when I comment on some pic. Go figure.
Now, I keep my opinion on pic that is posted by those that I think can't take the comment.
not for me.
we know who has one of the most expensive and extensive line-up of cameras over here....
and erm, yeah.
ok back to your post, technophobe, yup you've got some good points made. I was just defensive against the thinking that "eh, this guy can't take photos for nuts and he's asking for critique? *shake head*". Which I thought was one of Ivan's points in his first post.
Anyway, yep, this has been a good discussion. We certainly would take Ivan and your opinions constructively.
Onwards!
Originally posted by ivan_limm
Also, I'm afraid I might have hit a raw nerve with people who own good equipment but take crap pictures, so i'm sorry Parchiao if I have offended you
I find that your posts are getting increasingly personal and caustic.
Is there a need to be so or are you just intent on stirring up a flamewar?
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