Sony DSC-TX7

[MontoyaSG]

the Sony TX7 has a very small sensor compared to the likes of Panasonic LX3, Fuji F200EXR. I know that they employ software to get the best out of 6 shots to getter noise performance, but how effective is this compared to just having a large sensor to capture more light. There is only so much information you can capture with a small sensor, no matter how many times you capture the image. Yes, you can have better noise performance at the expense of details, which I suspect is what is happening.
Bros who have the used LX3 or the Fuji F200EXR, can you comment on the low light noise performance of your cameras vis a vis the Sony TX7 ? do you get the same level of details out of the TX7 ?

If the TX7 is able to get on par in terms of IQ with the LX3 / F200 won't it make the former look bad when they have a larger sized CCD sensor?

A fairer comparison would be to compare against similarly sized compacts rather than comparing with the cream of the crop.

 

[vibranze]

Bro MontoyaSG,

I watched the Youtube review of TX7, one of the comment saying that the full HD is actually interlaced version and not real 1080p. Is it true? And how about the battery stamina? Saw that the batt is smaller compared to TX1's batt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwau8TMMcU

Thanks.

 

[cimman]

If the TX7 is able to get on par in terms of IQ with the LX3 / F200 won't it make the former look bad when they have a larger sized CCD sensor?

A fairer comparison would be to compare against similarly sized compacts rather than comparing with the cream of the crop.

I understand. I was wondering if the eximor sensor, coupled with the software manipulation can provide an equal or better performance compared to the LX3/F200EXR p&s. The marketing materials around TX7 has promised the moon, low light, low noise, etc.... So was wondering if those claims are true.

 

[cimman]

Bro MontoyaSG,

I watched the Youtube review of TX7, one of the comment saying that the full HD is actually interlaced version and not real 1080p. Is it true? And how about the battery stamina? Saw that the batt is smaller compared to TX1's batt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwau8TMMcU

Thanks.

yeah, at 60fps, it is only possible with 1080i using AVCHD. However, at 30fps, I believe you can get 1080p, after all, it's the same number of pixels to move around, shouldn't be a problem. I think you can get about 200 shots on the battery. Not good, but you can't have your cake and eat it. There's the downside of a slim camera.

 

[tomcat]

I understand. I was wondering if the eximor sensor, coupled with the software manipulation can provide an equal or better performance compared to the LX3/F200EXR p&s. The marketing materials around TX7 has promised the moon, low light, low noise, etc.... So was wondering if those claims are true.

OK.. these are straight out of the camera at ISO 3200 in low light conditions from the Sony TX7, Leica D-Lux 4 (Panasonic LX3) and Fuji F200 'fresh out of the oven'. Compare to your hearts' content and come to your own conclusion

 

[MontoyaSG]

yeah, at 60fps, it is only possible with 1080i using AVCHD. However, at 30fps, I believe you can get 1080p, after all, it's the same number of pixels to move around, shouldn't be a problem. I think you can get about 200 shots on the battery. Not good, but you can't have your cake and eat it. There's the downside of a slim camera.

Over @ dpreview they are able to get 400 shots from a single charge which mainly consists of processing intensive handheld twilight shots.

 

[cimman]

OK.. these are straight out of the camera at ISO 3200 in low light conditions from the Sony TX7, Leica D-Lux 4 (Panasonic LX3) and Fuji F200 'fresh out of the oven'. Compare to your hearts' content and come to your own conclusion

thanks bro for the pics. Could you share the settings for each pic ? ie. ISO, aperture and shutter speed.
Assuming that they all have the same ISO, aperture and shutter speed, the Fuji looks the best. It's the brightest of the 3, colors are more vivid. TX7 did a good job with noise reduction, but it's too dark, underexposed. LX3 has plenty of noise. Some noise in F200EXR, but I will gladly trade it for the brighter exposure and brighter colors.

 

[tomcat]

thanks bro for the pics. Could you share the settings for each pic ? ie. ISO, aperture and shutter speed.
Assuming that they all have the same ISO, aperture and shutter speed, the Fuji looks the best. It's the brightest of the 3, colors are more vivid. TX7 did a good job with noise reduction, but it's too dark, underexposed. LX3 has plenty of noise. Some noise in F200EXR, but I will gladly trade it for the brighter exposure and brighter colors.

They were all taken at ISO 3200.
The exposure details were:
Sony TX7: f/3.5 1/20s
Leica D-Lux 4: f/3.5 1/13s
Fuji F200: f/3.3 1/10s

Exposure and colour saturation can always be corrected through post-processing but any details obliterated in the name of noise reduction can never be recovered.

Take a look at a comparison of the 100% crops of the same two Sony and Fuji shots that have both been exposure and colour corrected... :think:

 

[vibranze]

it looks to me that tx7 has a cleaner noise compare to f200

 

[cimman]

They were all taken at ISO 3200.
The exposure details were:
Sony TX7: f/3.5 1/20s
Leica D-Lux 4: f/3.5 1/13s
Fuji F200: f/3.3 1/10s

Exposure and colour saturation can always be corrected through post-processing but any details obliterated in the name of noise reduction can never be recovered.

Take a look at a comparison of the 100% crops of the same two Sony and Fuji shots that have both been exposure and colour corrected... :think:

thanks bro tomcat for taking the trouble to correct the images. Totally agree with you on the obliteration of details in noise reduction. So I'm willing to spend time to PP the good pics on the Sony if needed. This is truly amazing. The Sony actually beat the Fuji in terms of noise and details retained, and this from a sensor that is much smaller. This is a revolution. Just like film going to digital. No need to think liao, it's the TX7 for me........ ah wait,,, now it's the HX5v vs TX7. Still have to wait till the HX5V comes out and then we'll see. That GPS feature is tempting. I've been playing around with my GPS enabled mobile phone camera and having that feature is pretty addictive. Before playing with that GPS feature, I would have thought having GPS is just fluff, totally unnecessary, now I'm not so sure. For sure the Sony has more fun features than the Fuji, now it seems that even low light pics beats the Fuji. Of course, the Fuji is still king of the hill in terms of dynamic range. With the Fuji current price as it is, maybe I should get 2 P&S ? The HX5V should be cheaper than the TX7 and it has more features (ie. GPS, longer zoom range, improved stabilization for video), now it's the question of IQ and of course size. I actually prefer a larger camera, more surface area for my fingers to hold onto and I'm still a bit hesitant about touch screen. Still getting used to my capacitive touch screen on my mobile smartphone, and the TX7 touch sensitivity is not as good as the smartphones. I think the TX7 is resistive. Imagine if they have a capacitive touch screen for the TX7, pinch for zooming in and out of pics, swipe to scroll through your pics. drool..drool...

 

[tomcat]

thanks bro for taking the trouble to correct the images. This is truly amazing. The Sony actually beat the Fuji in terms of noise and details retained, and this from a sensor that is much smaller. This is a revolution. Just like film going to digital. No need to think liao, it's the TX7 for me........ ah wait,,, now it's the HX5v vs TX7. Still have to wait till the HX5V comes out and then we'll see. That GPS feature is tempting. I've been playing around with my GPS enabled mobile phone camera and having that feature is pretty addictive. Before playing with that GPS feature, I would have thought having GPS is just fluff, totally unnecessary, now I'm not so sure. For sure the Sony has more fun features than the Fuji, now it seems that even low light pics beats the Fuji. Of course, the Fuji is still king of the hill in terms of dynamic range. With the Fuji current price as it is, maybe I should get 2 P&S ?

This is because Sony is using an image stacking algorithm to overcome the limitations of small sensor size with respect to noise and resolution. Before Sony incorporate this into their cameras, this is only available in software form eg. Photoacute. Using this software, we can dramatically reduce noise and/or increase resolution by taking several images in succession and stacking them in the software. The tough part is actually taking the series of shots fast enough and often it might require the use of a tripod. The Sony TX1, TX7 and WX1 can take the 6 shots for stacking so fast that it could be handheld for all intents and purposes.

TX7 and HX5 also have HDR function which is quite useful like Fuji's DRO. I also want to get the HX5 for the GPS and geotagging function for travel photography.

 

[jpcc]

Yes, I do find GPS embedded data especially useful and fun for future reference/documentation.
(especially for travel photos)

TX7 seems like a really good compact sized camera with Exmor sensor and well implemented features
if one is looking for portability.

Regarding Capacitive touch UI...., seems like the following Taiwanese reviewer (a Sony T-series fan)
has pretty good experience with iScn when reviewing T77.
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=545&t=768730

The same reviewer did the TX7 review which I feel was very well written, and detailed from a user's perspective.
http://www.mobile01.com/topicdetail.php?f=545&t=1397252&p=1

(oops, provided u can read traditional Chinese )

 

[mikesclee]

Was at the Sony Centre at ION to enquire about the HX5V. Was told it's coming out next week, probably lauching at IT show. No indication of price. Since I've already own the WX1, what I really want is an updated version of HX1 with 20x zoom. But this time with all the latest functions similar to the HX5 and starting from 24mm instead of 28mm. Anyone know if there's such an updated model available soon?

 

[MontoyaSG]

They were all taken at ISO 3200.
The exposure details were:
Sony TX7: f/3.5 1/20s
Leica D-Lux 4: f/3.5 1/13s
Fuji F200: f/3.3 1/10s

Exposure and colour saturation can always be corrected through post-processing but any details obliterated in the name of noise reduction can never be recovered.

Take a look at a comparison of the 100% crops of the same two Sony and Fuji shots that have both been exposure and colour corrected... :think:

Handheld twilight mode used on the TX7?

 

[tomcat]

Handheld twilight mode used on the TX7?

I used Anti Motion Blur mode as I want the camera to use ISO 3200 so that I can compare with the other cameras at that ISO.
A lower ISO would have been used by the TX7 if Handheld Twilight mode is set.

 

[jpcc]

Interesting personal observation from dpreview (Tom Hoots) regarding UI/ handling between S90 and TX7.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1009&message=34613493

There will be some compromise with a periscopic lens design and a smaller sensor compared to
LX3, F200, S90 but I guess TX7 has a good form factor and fast handling to make it fun to use.

 

[MontoyaSG]

I used Anti Motion Blur mode as I want the camera to use ISO 3200 so that I can compare with the other cameras at that ISO.
A lower ISO would have been used by the TX7 if Handheld Twilight mode is set.

Nonetheless it's impressive to have a smaller sensor outperforming the other larger sized CCD sensors.

 

[greenieadi]

Aside from 4x vs 10x zoom & CZ vs G lens used, the TX7 is slightly pricier than the coming HX5V based on Sony USA for lens used I guess.

I'd go for the HX5V for the longer zoom and I am sure IQ shld be comparable to the TX7. Either cam, one couldn't go wrong with low-light capability and HD video.

 

[tomcat]

There are more differences than that. For example, the LCD screen of the TX7 is a 3.5" touchscreen with 921,000 dots while the HX5 has a normal 3" LCD screen with 230,000 dots.
The HX5 has got GPS and compass function and a better image stabilisation system (at least according to this Japanese review when they compare the results from the 2 cameras during video shooting http://translate.google.ca/translat...blog/mt/archives/entry/011326.html&hl=en&sa=G )

The HX5 has histogram display and manual aperture and shutter speed modes while the TX7 does not.

The HX5 does not have an Underwater Scene mode which means that it would not be supported with an underwater case and shooting underwater while the TX7 is supported.

Othe detailed specs of the 2 cameras can be found at their respective Sony sites:
HX5 : http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...&productId=8198552921666077169#specifications

TX7 : http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs...&productId=8198552921666073335#specifications

 

[Dennis]

HX5 will be launch tomorrow (10 Mar 2010)

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664892