I have walked out of an organised shoot, and I have cancelled a shoot I arranged becasue what were promised by the organiser and by the model were totally different than what were delivered. The discrepencies were not minor, and were not somethings that can be fixed within a reasonable period of time.Canonised said:
SLCC SHoot
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The sad thing is, lots of photographers here don't even know that they were taken for a ride. They accept without questions what were presented, even if the "merchandise did not match the sample", because they do not know better.madmacs said:
As a photographer, a member of this forum, and a member of this photogrpahic community, I frequently point out problems where the organisers did not deliver as advertised. However, the same photographers and others will immediately circle the wagon, defending the organisers, why, I have no idea.
Then, if the outfit looks horrible, how many times have you seen a photographer complained? I have seen none, with the exception of myself. Horrendous make up is a frequent problem, especially when the organise promised to do something special. Within the budget of the shoot, something special is nearly impossible, something tacky, something trashy and something horrid are usually the result. We must complain especially if it's something horrid!
Deadpoet said:
photography aside, most locals i have come across will complain among themselves but not take further action. a small number may write and complain to the management or press. i dont think cs members are any different. blame it on the culture (maybe). ;p
anyway i think most photographers would be smart enough not to participate in subsequent shoots by the same organizer if they they were unhappy the 1st time round.
Deadpoet said:
That's why I keep saying, the organisers are squeezing out as much $$$$$ as they can. Once they are not earning, they will go all out for budget shoot, even though they promise this and that. Some organisers will come out with lame excuses because they cannot deliver the actual goods. Totally no control on this model shooting organisers now......
As you can see there are just too many wannabees organisers. Organising a single model shoot is not as easy as they think it is. So far the ONLY successful organiser which even BOBMAN attended was CHARBY model shoots.
Most of them who attended have little or no prior experience, so they think it's good enough to even see a model turning up with poor make-up.:bsmilie:
Pro Image said:
Pro, to set the record straight. I attended other organisers shoot as well. By attending Charby shoot is becos we are friends, and wanna have fun with other photographer friends as well. But that does not constitute he is 'THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL' organiser. (I hope we don't bring Charby into this, he is too nice.
) What really makes a good organiser, in your opinion? Have you ever been to any one organised shoot here and see how one's work?Each organiser has his/her strengths and weaknesses. Success again isn't measure by the number of ppl attenting the shoot. If you are counting on that, I think to be fair, SLCC has the largest number and more interesting trips for both locals n overseas. Each large group shoot comes with a leader and each large shoot comes with buffet lunch or dinner. Can't they be called successful as well???
Suekay go to such an extend to rent a dance studio and buffet for a group of photographers to shoot. Becos some of the photogrpahers dunno how to automatic, Suekay being called lousy?
Gravemaid, created a website for CS photographers and think of concepts out of ordinary for photographers and search for interesting and different locations each time for her shoot. Is she less successful?
About me, for you to find out. Maybe what I am know is the only organiser who cancel or postphone shoots evey often. Well, " xin soo seah lan chye" :cry:
What I can see is from SLCC models are mostly teenager, and they mainly cater for their students and most students have budget. Makeup is always good but maybe now wanna try new things which cause some uproar. Clothings I guess they have to think about it seriuosly. If they are teenager, just do teenager theme shoot. It can be fun too, to do like sports or beach volley or same action sport photography. Just an suggestion, paiseh busybody.
Pro Image said:
I will speak as an organiser. If any organiser here finds me wrong, correct me. Pro, dun use the word 'squeeze'. We need to make money to support the business.
I take this statement irresponsible because instead of you thinking of the organiser managed to bargain for lesser price and give this discount to the photographers. You think otherwise. Why not you think in a way that the price too high and organiser gave feedback to the model telling her hey, your fee too high nobody wants to shoot, can charge lower not? Why the reason must be negative and think that we organiser cannot earn high then lower the price?
I am adding this:
Instead of you saying that if we are not earning, we do budget shoot. Wrong! The budget shoot is to cover lesser lost. No choice, this is biz. Some local model agency or all biz the same. If the model is here, if can't ask for higher price, got to go for lower price. Models are not product or non living things. They need to eat n sleep and thus need money for their daily expenses. The agency or organiser have contact to fullfil, so this is how you should think. Unless you have a better biz alternatives for us.............
If what DP mentioned that if the model did not turn out to be what is promised, then it is a no no. If there isn't enuff participants for the shoot, I believe most organisers will either cancel or postphone the shoots. Who will want to do a losing biz???? I did once, but not now....
ConnorMcLeod
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madmacs said:
Organiser / MUA / model risk = ruin reputation
Photographer risk = boring photos, waste time & money
Madmacs mentioned organisers to indicate style. I think its done usually though not always.
Bobman said:
This happenned to me quite a few times. If it's the model's fault, she is out, and if it's the organiser's fault he/she is out just as fast.
Some example of problems and situations I faced in Singapore.
I hired a blonde and a brunette showed up.
Nude to me means nude, not hands over breasts all the time, nor wearing a g-strings, that is topless, not nude.
A white dress means white, not beige, not yellowish white from years of washing.
4 inch heels is high, if model cannot take it, tell me, don't come with something along the line of 2 inch, does not cut it.
Make up artist late by 90 moinutes, who pays the model while she sits around? Granted, model was nice and fun, we smoked a pack of cigs, play cards, drank a beer or 2 waiting, but clock is ticking.
Bikini, my pet peeve. Bikini means a bikini. No need to define for everyone here, but unfortunately, it seems many organisers and models have different definations for bikini. A halter top, a crop top, a rolled up tank top, boy shorts, short shorts, mini skirt, micro mini skirts, none of these, to the best of my knowledge and understnading, is part of the "bikini". And yet, can't count how many times I had to deal with this misunderstanding!
Oh well, seems like a crusade of a very few.
Pro Image said:
Why not???? Who doesn't start as a wannabee??? Good exposure for them to learn from the hard way. Each photoshoot is a learning to them. Kenna whack left right centre, then they will learn.
I find that they are very promising esp feine and mantiz. Very nice and beautiful models and they can target on different audience. As for feine, she is a model herself, so she has an advantage of guiding newer models...Orrr what a threat
Upz for you.Also make older organisers realise that they are not alone. If you dun improve or think of something new, you are out in no time.... Like wat it says, Back wave push Front wave....
At the end of the day, I really don't care "back wave" or "front wave", old or new, wannabes or experienced, I just want to get that image I am thinking about. A good organizer is one who delivers, a good model is one who delivers.
Unfortunately, there are very few organisers that delivers, those who delivered, I continue to work with them. Fortunately, models delivered more often than not.
Unfortunately, there are very few organisers that delivers, those who delivered, I continue to work with them. Fortunately, models delivered more often than not.
Deadpoet said:
It is true. Everyone wants to work with someone who can delivers. However, each of us has different level of expectations. It is good to have a customer like you but if can't fullfil you expectations, there's nothing one can do.
Looking forward to get you the image you want.......
I still stand by that CHARBY is still the most successful organiser in town at the moment. There is no reason for me to attend paid model shoots. People pay me to shoot. Not me paying them. I have attended a few for observation purposes (not for shoot) and yes I know how it works. Good for you for making friends in the organise shoots. Plus it's good that you attended his. Did you manage to attend the rest besides CHARBY one?Bobman said:Pro, to set the record straight. I attended other organisers shoot as well. By attending Charby shoot is becos we are friends, and wanna have fun with other photographer friends as well. But that does not constitute he is 'THE ONLY SUCCESSFUL' organiser. (I hope we don't bring Charby into this, he is too nice.
Sure every organisers have strength and weakness which I do not deny but so far I seen more weakness (like 9/10 organised shoots are done poorly such as make-up, hair, clothings). If an organiser has local and overseas shoots experience, then they should be more experience in organising much more higher quality shoots. Sure a meal or 2 to make the photographers stoamch happy but the most important thing is still good models with at least standard make-up and no messy hair. After all these photographers that went for the trip is about photoshooting the models. Makan is secondary.Bobman said:
Now when did I say Suekay was lousy? If you see the thread clearly, we were stating facts. Facts such place is too small for 20 plus photographers. Hey ask any photographers the most important thing in a model shoot are the MODELS and PLACE. Buffet....? So what is this? A lunch buffet or a photoshoot? Which one? What was the whole purpose of the model shoot? Model shoot right?Bobman said:
Well good that she did talk about it. Congrates to her.Bobman said:
Well I do not want to comment to much about you. I do not intend to find out now and the near future.Bobman said:
Firstly, whether they are teenager or adults the make up sucks big time. A teenager can look better if you have a good make-up artist. So far it's more like down roar to me.Bobman said:
Deadpoet said:
Sometime I pay extra $$$ for private shoot, then I am the only Boss - make-up,outfit & etc
are all to my requirements. The Organiser, MAU and models are very up to Standard.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: for Organiser, MAU, Models & Madmac.
Deadpoet YOU ARE REALLY DEAD COS YOU CANNOT DIFFERENTIATE A MASS SHOOT AND A
PRIVATE SHOOT. :devil: :devil: :devil:
I guess the 'messy hair' ear is over. All photographers will take a second look at the hair before he/she clicks. Thanks to DP......
Now, the organiser, mua and stylist topics....hmmmm
Pro, whatever it is, you may stand by your own beliefs, I had mine too......... Btw, I do attend other organisers' shoot and I will still going. The next one Gravemaid or Modelinn or Mantiz or Feine? No, I will go all......
One more to add, maybe you like to tell me what do you consider a good and successful organiser, in your opinion???
Now, the organiser, mua and stylist topics....hmmmm
Pro, whatever it is, you may stand by your own beliefs, I had mine too......... Btw, I do attend other organisers' shoot and I will still going. The next one Gravemaid or Modelinn or Mantiz or Feine? No, I will go all......
One more to add, maybe you like to tell me what do you consider a good and successful organiser, in your opinion???
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