SDHC question

[electron]

I am planning to get a SDHC card for recording video on my olympus E-PL1. The standard 8GB card that came with it is not fast enough as the video skips when i play back on my computer (but not on the camera).

Recommended speed is Class 6 for video (from the manual) so I checked out THIS site that compares 13 cards and I'm confused. Is it the WRITE speed that is important or the ACCESS TIME that is important for video recording?

Also, I'm leaning toward getting the Silicon Power brand SDHC card because its 'minimum' write speed is the best of the bunch. However, that is for it's test 16GB card.
I would rather get a 8GB card but will it have the same performance?

 

[hotwork77]

I am planning to get a SDHC card for recording video on my olympus E-PL1. The standard 8GB card that came with it is not fast enough as the video skips when i play back on my computer (but not on the camera).

Recommended speed is Class 6 for video (from the manual) so I checked out THIS site that compares 13 cards and I'm confused. Is it the WRITE speed that is important or the ACCESS TIME that is important for video recording?

Also, I'm leaning toward getting the Silicon Power brand SDHC card because its 'minimum' write speed is the best of the bunch. However, that is for it's test 16GB card.
I would rather get a 8GB card but will it have the same performance?

Write speed is important for the camera. Read/Access speed is important for the PC. I got the SDHC Class 10 32GB at super cheap price during the last week's Comex. It surpass all my expectations with the performance. Anyway I was using it for my Panasonic HDV camcorder.

 

[jaegersing]

I am planning to get a SDHC card for recording video on my olympus E-PL1. The standard 8GB card that came with it is not fast enough as the video skips when i play back on my computer (but not on the camera).

Recommended speed is Class 6 for video (from the manual) so I checked out THIS site that compares 13 cards and I'm confused. Is it the WRITE speed that is important or the ACCESS TIME that is important for video recording?

Also, I'm leaning toward getting the Silicon Power brand SDHC card because its 'minimum' write speed is the best of the bunch. However, that is for it's test 16GB card.
I would rather get a 8GB card but will it have the same performance?

If the video plays back smoothly in the cam, you don't need a faster card. You need a faster computer. Or you need to convert the video into a format that will play smoothly on your computer.

 

[electron]

If the video plays back smoothly in the cam, you don't need a faster card. You need a faster computer. Or you need to convert the video into a format that will play smoothly on your computer.

You're right. Playback on DivX and FLV was terrible. However RealPlayer was a smoother altho not completely jerk free. Hence, I think I still need a faster card. What would be a recommended brand? I'm looking for Silicon Power which is highly regarded in Taiwan but there are no 16GB cards on ebay. I'm just wondering if the 8GB cards that they do have are of the same performance as the 16GB cards that were tested.

 

[jaegersing]

You're right. Playback on DivX and FLV was terrible. However RealPlayer was a smoother altho not completely jerk free. Hence, I think I still need a faster card. What would be a recommended brand? I'm looking for Silicon Power which is highly regarded in Taiwan but there are no 16GB cards on ebay. I'm just wondering if the 8GB cards that they do have are of the same performance as the 16GB cards that were tested.

If it plays back smoothly in the camera, then the card is already fast enough, and a faster card will not help.

The card speed is stated as a number, like Class 6, Class 10. If you got lots of money you can get class 10 cards. This will guarantee that your video recording will be ok. But it won't help at all with your playback problem.

 

[hotwork77]

You're right. Playback on DivX and FLV was terrible. However Real Player was a smoother altho not completely jerk free. Hence, I think I still need a faster card. What would be a recommended brand? I'm looking for Silicon Power which is highly regarded in Taiwan but there are no 16GB cards on ebay. I'm just wondering if the 8GB cards that they do have are of the same performance as the 16GB cards that were tested.

Bro...your PC or Mac must be quite high end to really decode or even edit simple HDV video cos it require a lot processor power.

Even you are using Core i7, there's no guarantee that your motherboard sub system can managed the digital traffic between the CPU/RAM/GPU/HDD. My 8core Mac with 16GB RAM is struggling with editing a HDV on most occasion.

Getting a high end Class 10 SD card is not the solution, most HDV camcorder only requires a class 6 max. But if your mind is set on Silicon Power then go ahead and buy otherwise SanDisk is a better buy in Singapore with a lifetime warranty.

 

[jaegersing]

Even you are using Core i7, there's no guarantee that your motherboard sub system can managed the digital traffic between the CPU/RAM/GPU/HDD. My 8core Mac with 16GB RAM is struggling with editing a HDV on most occasion.

HDV editing is not so tough nowadays. Edius on a PC can playback multi streams of HDV very smoothly. Maybe your setup has a problem?

 

[electron]

Bro...your PC or Mac must be quite high end to really decode or even edit simple HDV video cos it require a lot processor power.

Even you are using Core i7, there's no guarantee that your motherboard sub system can managed the digital traffic between the CPU/RAM/GPU/HDD. My 8core Mac with 16GB RAM is struggling with editing a HDV on most occasion.

Ok, I'm not editing the video tho, just playing back. Does it need to be decoded?

Getting a high end Class 10 SD card is not the solution, most HDV camcorder only requires a class 6 max. But if your mind is set on Silicon Power then go ahead and buy otherwise SanDisk is a better buy in Singapore with a lifetime warranty. [/COLOR]

I didn't say I was going to get class 10 but thanks anyway I now know it doesn't make a difference. I will just stick with class 6. Having said that, there isn't much of a price difference between the two classes so it wouldn't be a bad idea to 'future proof' a bit maybe.

 

[hotwork77]

Ok, I'm not editing the video tho, just playing back. Does it need to be decoded?

I didn't say I was going to get class 10 but thanks anyway I now know it doesn't make a difference. I will just stick with class 6. Having said that, there isn't much of a price difference between the two classes so it wouldn't be a bad idea to 'future proof' a bit maybe.

Playing back HD video don't need so much horsepower. A simple Core2Duo 1.6GHz and a standard $79 video card like ATI 1000 series will do.

You didn't say you are getting class10 but I said even if and if you are getting a class10 is not the solution because most HDV camcorder only write at 6MB/s or less. But personally no harm in getting a class10 right? The price differential is not much anymore as we can see the price has been dropping week by week.

 

[DXNMedia]

Anyway I was using it for my Panasonic HDV camcorder.

No offense intended....I can't help but to correct your postings as there have been a few misleading terms mentioned that may confuse readers.

If you're referring HDV to generic HD video based cameras, then state it properly and don't use 'HDV'. HDV is a MPEG2 based format adopted by Sony & Canon for their HD camcorders. Panasonic doesn't have a single camera that records in HDV format, and neither was HDV as a recording format capable of being recorded onto SDHC card during its days.

I believe you're referring to using a Panasonic's AVCHD High-Definition camera that records on SDHC card.

Bro...your PC or Mac must be quite high end to really decode or even edit simple HDV video cos it require a lot processor power.

My 8core Mac with 16GB RAM is struggling with editing a HDV on most occasion.

Getting a high end Class 10 SD card is not the solution, most HDV camcorder only requires a class 6 max. But if your mind is set on Silicon Power then go ahead and buy otherwise SanDisk is a better buy in Singapore with a lifetime warranty.

To edit HDV videos (usually an .m2t file), your processor speed isn't that critical by today's standard, but your disk need to be able to sustain a decently fast read/write throughput.
If your system can handle video at DV resolution via firewire connections, there is a high likelyhood that your system will be able to handle HDV videos.
Despite all the speed ratings, USB2.0 connection to your drives are not fast enough to handle HDV videos.


Again, if you're referring to AVCHD as a recording format for your camera (usually a .MTS file), then yes, processor speed is critical because H.264 based compression is a very efficient format, and a lot of processing power is required to decode your video data to playback in realtime.

You didn't say you are getting class10 but I said even if and if you are getting a class10 is not the solution because most HDV camcorder only write at 6MB/s or less. But personally no harm in getting a class10 right? The price differential is not much anymore as we can see the price has been dropping week by week.

HDV format camcorders record at 25Mbps or about 3.6MB/s, during it's days, SDHC cards isn't able to attain that kind of read/write speeds yet, and so tapeless based HDV cameras run on Compact Flash cards of at least 133x and above.

AVCHD camcorders record at various bit rates and maximum is at 24Mbps. By today's computing standards, most computers & media storage are able to sustain the data rate of compressed HD video requirements (Both HDV or AVCHD), and most bottleneck and drop frames during playback are usually caused by your interface connections. ie. USB2.0
No matter how fast your SDHC card is going to be, using a card reader via USB2.0 connection will be the bottleneck despite it being specified to have a 480mbps data rate.

http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm

If you've copied out your video media into your internal harddrive for playback, given that your graphics card & processor speed is good enough, and your AVCHD player is efficient in decoding the video, there is a high likelyhood that your computer will not choke on the playback.


Hope this helps to clarify some doubts & confusion. :thumbsup:

 

[harky]

sorry to hiijack..

anyone know which brand is gd??

sandisk?
Kingston?

 

[hotwork77]

No offense intended....I can't help but to correct your postings as there have been a few misleading terms mentioned that may confuse readers.

If you're referring HDV to generic HD video based cameras, then state it properly and don't use 'HDV'. HDV is a MPEG2 based format adopted by Sony & Canon for their HD camcorders. Panasonic doesn't have a single camera that records in HDV format, and neither was HDV as a recording format capable of being recorded onto SDHC card during its days.

I believe you're referring to using a Panasonic's AVCHD High-Definition camera that records on SDHC card.

To edit HDV videos (usually an .m2t file), your processor speed isn't that critical by today's standard, but your disk need to be able to sustain a decently fast read/write throughput.
If your system can handle video at DV resolution via firewire connections, there is a high likelyhood that your system will be able to handle HDV videos.
Despite all the speed ratings, USB2.0 connection to your drives are not fast enough to handle HDV videos.

Again, if you're referring to AVCHD as a recording format for your camera (usually a .MTS file), then yes, processor speed is critical because H.264 based compression is a very efficient format, and a lot of processing power is required to decode your video data to playback in realtime.

HDV format camcorders record at 25Mbps or about 3.6MB/s, during it's days, SDHC cards isn't able to attain that kind of read/write speeds yet, and so tapeless based HDV cameras run on Compact Flash cards of at least 133x and above.

AVCHD camcorders record at various bit rates and maximum is at 24Mbps. By today's computing standards, most computers & media storage are able to sustain the data rate of compressed HD video requirements (Both HDV or AVCHD), and most bottleneck and drop frames during playback are usually caused by your interface connections. ie. USB2.0
No matter how fast your SDHC card is going to be, using a card reader via USB2.0 connection will be the bottleneck despite it being specified to have a 480mbps data rate.

http://www.everythingusb.com/usb2/faq.htm

If you've copied out your video media into your internal harddrive for playback, given that your graphics card & processor speed is good enough, and your AVCHD player is efficient in decoding the video, there is a high likelyhood that your computer will not choke on the playback.

Hope this helps to clarify some doubts & confusion. :thumbsup:

Firstly...no offense taken. Thanks for the clarification.

When I said HDV or HD Video or AVCHD, they are all lump together under the same generic term...High Definition Video or Full HD in marketing speak. HDV or AVCHD are recording formats used by the various manufacturers to distinguish their products but ultimately still fall under the same High Definition Video umbrella. Consumers won't be interested in whether it is m2t file or mts file format. They are more interested in whether it can be edited/played in their PC/Mac or not. If cannot, then why? If can, then how?

I hope my post does not set out to confuse but is rather from a consumer point of view.

 

[jaegersing]

When I said HDV or HD Video or AVCHD, they are all lump together under the same generic term...High Definition Video or Full HD in marketing speak. HDV or AVCHD are recording formats used by the various manufacturers to distinguish their products but ultimately still fall under the same High Definition Video umbrella. Consumers won't be interested in whether it is m2t file or mts file format. They are more interested in whether it can be edited/played in their PC/Mac or not. If cannot, then why? If can, then how?

I hope my post does not set out to confuse but is rather from a consumer point of view.

I think you are missing Dixon's point. If you try to lump together completely different formats like that, you will only confuse people. HDV and AVCHD have got specific meanings (or a range of meanings) that will be understood by anybody working with video. You cannot interchange them without causing confusion.

And it's not just nit-picking. If you ask questions about ease of editing or playback, the answers are different for HDV and AVCHD. How to lump them together? HDV is easier to work with (at the moment) compared with AVCHD. If you use the term HDV when you actually mean AVCHD, you could be mislead by the answer and may make a wrong decision.

 

[DXNMedia]

In technical terms, 'High Definition Video' is any video resolution above the 720x576(PAL) screen size or 720x480(NTSC) screen size, so technically you're right that HDV or AVCHD falls into that category, but there are a lot of difference between these two formats.

I disagree with you on your quote that consumers are not interested to know the details.
If you needed to know why you can't playback the files then you'll need to know some level of technical details, or you won't be able to know how to solve the issue.


:thumbsup:

 

[hotwork77]

I think you are missing Dixon's point. If you try to lump together completely different formats like that, you will only confuse people. HDV and AVCHD have got specific meanings (or a range of meanings) that will be understood by anybody working with video. You cannot interchange them without causing confusion.

And it's not just nit-picking. If you ask questions about ease of editing or playback, the answers are different for HDV and AVCHD. How to lump them together? HDV is easier to work with (at the moment) compared with AVCHD. If you use the term HDV when you actually mean AVCHD, you could be mislead by the answer and may make a wrong decision.

Sorry but who's Dixon?

To make a long story short, I was talking about Hi-Def videos in general. Not about file formats. It's ok for you to nit-pick my statement after all we are sharing knowledge here. If I'm wrong then go ahead and correct me, there's no shame in admitting your mistake.

 

[DXNMedia]

To make a long story short, I was talking about Hi-Def videos in general. Not about file formats. It's ok for you to nit-pick my statement after all we are sharing knowledge here. If I'm wrong then go ahead and correct me, there's no shame in admitting your mistake.

Unfortunately, as much as we hope it can be, there's no such thing as Hi-Def videos in 'general'.
Every recording format of Hi-Def video is different (thus affecting file format) and it requires different ways of tackling the mentioned problem.

You're not entirely wrong with your posts regarding the read/write data rate for SDHC cards. Just the part between HDV & AVCHD format is a bit confusing.
HDV format is less intensive on the processor, but requires a slightly faster storage medium. So if there are drop frames on playback, it is highly likely that the problem lies in storage.
AVCHD format is more intensive on the processor, less straining on the hdd throughput requirements, so if there are drop frames on playback or if the video stutters, it is very highly likely that processor isn't able to handle realtime playback.

Most end users like to connect a SDHC reader via USB2.0 to playback the files, and the cause of problem may actually be due to the USB connection. Copy the whole AVCHD file structure or .MTS files into your internal drives and it should playback fine if your system is up to the task.


Yep, and there's absolutely no shame in making mistakes and admitting it. I make mistakes too, and I learn from it.

:thumbsup:

 

[hotwork77]

In technical terms, 'High Definition Video' is any video resolution above the 720x576(PAL) screen size or 720x480(NTSC) screen size, so technically you're right that HDV or AVCHD falls into that category, but there are a lot of difference between these two formats.

I disagree with you on your quote that consumers are not interested to know the details.
If you needed to know why you can't playback the files then you'll need to know some level of technical details, or you won't be able to know how to solve the issue.

:thumbsup:

My dear DXNMedia...I agree with you that there are differences between the 2 formats. They are like night and day.

We may never know for sure whether majority of the consumers are interested in the details or not but what we do know is that they want to solve the problem plaguing them. Thanks for sharing.

Have a nice day.