Not totally. Quite inconvenient actually. But can work around.
Resolution And Dynamic Range D700 vs D7000
- Thread starter sonq9
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Not totally. Quite inconvenient actually. But can work around.
David & Zerocool,
Even the expensive 24-70 or 17-55 are quite distorted at the wide end, but I found the test shot of the 10-24's distortion quite mild at 14mm.
The only thing I don't know how to overcome is the getting the "straight" vertical lines on both left & right edge of the image without a PC lens. See the shots on this site http://www.dezeen.com/architecture/. Can this be achieved on PHotoshop?
Even the expensive 24-70 or 17-55 are quite distorted at the wide end, but I found the test shot of the 10-24's distortion quite mild at 14mm.
The only thing I don't know how to overcome is the getting the "straight" vertical lines on both left & right edge of the image without a PC lens. See the shots on this site http://www.dezeen.com/architecture/. Can this be achieved on PHotoshop?
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ZerocoolAstra
Senior Member
Camera needs to be level to improve your chances of getting straight verticals at the sides.
After that it is just slight adjustment in Photoshop to correct lens distortion if any.
If you don't do this first, how can you conclude that ____ lens are quite distorted at the wide end? It could well be perspective distortion...
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David Kwok
Senior Member
Perspective Correction using the Lens Correction Filter in the PS will be able to help you achieve such photos. T&S lens, correct me if I'm mistaken because I don't own one myself, is an optical solution to the very same technique. Of course, using a T&S, you will need to level your sensor perpendicular to the horizon, which can be done using a spirit level which can be mounted on the hot shoe of a camera. There are some ball head that include such devices too.
Using the digital approach, you lose data information in the process due to digitization. Optical solution will give you a better output being optical.
Next I must warn you, just because it's mild distortion doesn't mean it's easy to solve. Some distortion are wavy and cannot be easily done with Lens Correction filter or other form of filter in other applications. It has to be done in the lab to test out against a high resolution grid with all points known in the place, for each different zoom and the object distance away from the lens. I suspect it is a very cumblesome process if you want to get things looking straight. Which is why I recommended DxO as your solution to achieve straight lines.
There don't seems to be any perspective distortion cure that I am aware of. Hence in this situation, T&S lens will allow you to pan across the room without changing your plane of focus.
Using the digital approach, you lose data information in the process due to digitization. Optical solution will give you a better output being optical.
Next I must warn you, just because it's mild distortion doesn't mean it's easy to solve. Some distortion are wavy and cannot be easily done with Lens Correction filter or other form of filter in other applications. It has to be done in the lab to test out against a high resolution grid with all points known in the place, for each different zoom and the object distance away from the lens. I suspect it is a very cumblesome process if you want to get things looking straight. Which is why I recommended DxO as your solution to achieve straight lines.
There don't seems to be any perspective distortion cure that I am aware of. Hence in this situation, T&S lens will allow you to pan across the room without changing your plane of focus.
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Kit
Senior Member
As usual, we need to determine what kind of distortion are you referring to. Is it perspective distortion or curvilinear distortions? Perspective distortion (stretched / exaggerated) elements around the edges are inherent in wide angle lenses and cannot be corrected. It can be minimise though. Curvilinear distortions (curved lines) towards the edges of the frame can be corrected in post editing. I suspect TS is referring to curvilinear distortions because there is no way the 10-22 will have lesser perspective distortion.
You can use the PC-E lenses on the D700 just fine. However, you won't be able to switch the axis of movement when the lens is fully shifted (or close to fully shifted) because of the protruding built-in flash housing. Got to set the lens back to neutral position before rotating. Personally, I've almost never shot interiors with T/S lenses.
You can use the PC-E lenses on the D700 just fine. However, you won't be able to switch the axis of movement when the lens is fully shifted (or close to fully shifted) because of the protruding built-in flash housing. Got to set the lens back to neutral position before rotating. Personally, I've almost never shot interiors with T/S lenses.
If you want a complete job pay for a professional who has invested in equipment, lighting technique and experience.
If you want to do it yourself then frankly there's no need to get so much fancy and expensive gear. There is also no need to go so in-depth on distortion. Relatively straight is good enough to bluff people, and by keeping web dimensions small eg. 800x600 it's hard to notice at first glance.
Nikon t/s lenses aren't wide enough for interiors anyway. They don't even come into my mind when considering lense options.
I specialise in interior photography by the way.
If you want to do it yourself then frankly there's no need to get so much fancy and expensive gear. There is also no need to go so in-depth on distortion. Relatively straight is good enough to bluff people, and by keeping web dimensions small eg. 800x600 it's hard to notice at first glance.
Nikon t/s lenses aren't wide enough for interiors anyway. They don't even come into my mind when considering lense options.
I specialise in interior photography by the way.
Thanks for the advise. I went ahead and tried one of my images on PS4 and it worked using the Crop Tool. Still some distortion of the vertical line on top left but that's good enough for me. I won't border with the PC lens option, will just get a D7000 and a better lens than the 16mm NEX. I think the overexposed details can be overcome with HDR in the camera.
ZerocoolAstra
Senior Member
Thanks for the advise. I went ahead and tried one of my images on PS4 and it worked using the Crop Tool. Still some distortion of the vertical line on top left but that's good enough for me. I won't border with the PC lens option, will just get a D7000 and a better lens than the 16mm NEX. I think the overexposed details can be overcome with HDR in the camera.
errr... you tilt the camera downward slightly, so of course the verticals will tilt.
That is vertical perspective distortion.
Don't be so quick to blame the equipment
This is improper technique mainly.
ZerocoolAstra
Senior Member
You can't possibly have barrel AND pincushion distortion at the same time!
What is 'wave distortion' anyway?
I have shot a wedding where the main photographer used a D700 and I used a K5 (same sensor as D7K, but o/p tweaked differently, so this is no one to one representation to D7k o/p)
I got the originals from my friend.
I'd say that the 16mp camera does have more resolution if you need it (eg. cropping)
Can't comment on DR, as there are no exact similar photos to compare DR.
I got the originals from my friend.
I'd say that the 16mp camera does have more resolution if you need it (eg. cropping)
Can't comment on DR, as there are no exact similar photos to compare DR.
David Kwok
Senior Member
I will say both barrel and pincushion distortion is very much possible occurring at different stage of the stack of lens.
You might want to read these
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Help/Distortion.aspx
http://diglloyd.com/articles/UnderstandingOptics/understanding-distortion.html
And I have very much seen it before on 17-55 or 17-35. No matter how I fix it in PS, it is barrel at some portion and pincushion in another.
That's by the photographer in my sister's wedding, I think he is using either 17-35 f/2.8 or 17-55 f/2.8.
He did it in JPEG instead of RAW, which is why I can't rectify that issue in DxO. Darn it.
You might want to read these
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Help/Distortion.aspx
http://diglloyd.com/articles/UnderstandingOptics/understanding-distortion.html
And I have very much seen it before on 17-55 or 17-35. No matter how I fix it in PS, it is barrel at some portion and pincushion in another.
That's by the photographer in my sister's wedding, I think he is using either 17-35 f/2.8 or 17-55 f/2.8.
He did it in JPEG instead of RAW, which is why I can't rectify that issue in DxO. Darn it.
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David Kwok
Senior Member
I thought you should be using the Lens Correction tool ?
Below is your image that I have helped to correct the distortion, it can be done more, but if you notice that I use
the extreme left wall as the reference, it does not solve the problem in the middle and towards right side of the
image. It is hard to resolve this issue using simple lens correction tool. That's why there is demand for DxO
If you happen to have the raw file, I can show you what DxO can do for you
Below is your image that I have helped to correct the distortion, it can be done more, but if you notice that I use
the extreme left wall as the reference, it does not solve the problem in the middle and towards right side of the
image. It is hard to resolve this issue using simple lens correction tool. That's why there is demand for DxO
If you happen to have the raw file, I can show you what DxO can do for you
Thanks for the advise. I went ahead and tried one of my images on PS4 and it worked using the Crop Tool. Still some distortion of the vertical line on top left but that's good enough for me. I won't border with the PC lens option, will just get a D7000 and a better lens than the 16mm NEX. I think the overexposed details can be overcome with HDR in the camera.
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My understanding is that if there is pincushion in some areas, and barrel in other areas of a picture... it automatically means it is wave distortion... well... whatever..
Unless you are trying to say that for a zoom lens, it can exhibit different kinds of distortions at different focal lengths... then I understand...
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ZerocoolAstra
Senior Member
Thanks for the links :thumbsup:
Ok I stand corrected on the 'wave distortion' bit, which from what I gather is a mixture of barrel at some parts and pincushion in others. All along have figured pincushion to be edges pulled inwards and barrel to be the opposite (edges outwards). Never encountered this mixture.
I guess I need to start shooting more straight lines
I do know that most zoom lenses exhibit 1 form of distortion at certain focal lengths, and another as you zoom.
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David Kwok
Senior Member
I hope you have reviewed those reading links. It doesn't matter if it's a zoom lens or prime lens. It can be found in all zoom range. Good lens stay with just barrel or pincushion. Not as good ones exhibit both in the same zoom range used.
To be more exact, if I use 24mm on one of the particular prime lens or fixed at 24mm in a 24-70mm zoom lens, and I'm shooting against something straight. It is possible to get the straight lines looking like a "S" shape curve. At the moment, I have not seen any lens correction tool that does more than just barrel or pincushion correct. Besides it is tedious to resolve such problem.
To be more exact, if I use 24mm on one of the particular prime lens or fixed at 24mm in a 24-70mm zoom lens, and I'm shooting against something straight. It is possible to get the straight lines looking like a "S" shape curve. At the moment, I have not seen any lens correction tool that does more than just barrel or pincushion correct. Besides it is tedious to resolve such problem.
I thought you should be using the Lens Correction tool ?
Below is your image that I have helped to correct the distortion, it can be done more, but if you notice that I use
the extreme left wall as the reference, it does not solve the problem in the middle and towards right side of the
image. It is hard to resolve this issue using simple lens correction tool. That's why there is demand for DxO
If you happen to have the raw file, I can show you what DxO can do for you
Wow, that's DxO's lens correction? Very straight!
I found PS4's instruction online for correcting distortion before I use the same cropping technique; not as good as your's but slightly straighter than my earlier effort.
Kit
Senior Member
Thanks for the advise. I went ahead and tried one of my images on PS4 and it worked using the Crop Tool. Still some distortion of the vertical line on top left but that's good enough for me. I won't border with the PC lens option, will just get a D7000 and a better lens than the 16mm NEX. I think the overexposed details can be overcome with HDR in the camera.
What you have is what's commonly known as keystone effect, but in reverse. This is not curvilinear distortion i.e. barrel or pin cushion distortion. Like Kevin mentioned, you pointed the camera downwards. Your setup is not aligned with the vertical lines in the frame. As for the clipped highlights, yes you probably have to deal with it in post editing. From what I see, you can afford to dial in a little under exposure for this shot so that you can have better odds in retrieving the details in the highlights later.
So isn't a mixture of pincushion and barrel distortion just called wave, or moustache distortion? Sorry, I am really confused here. Yes, I read through.
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