Question on B&S - who is first to get item? Post in B&S thread or SMS?

[redzzz]

My experience with bidding on other websites:

I bidded for an item and was contacted to close deal with seller but on the actual day, he sms me that he had received a higher bid and will be selling the item to the other person.

Whose fault is it here? The seller, the other guy that bidded a higher price or me, for not being able to pick up the item earlier?

The answer is none of the above, putting urself into each or the involved party here, all are not wrong for their actions.

As seller: Don't you want to get a higher price for ur item?
As other bidder: If you think the item is worth it, won't u try to outbid?

We have to remember that this is an auction, not a 'buy off the shelf' or 'black and white' contractual sales.

I was also very angry at that time and wanted to leave horrendous remarks on his site but at the end of the day, it benefits no one.

If you really think he is unethical, then ever try to buy things from him/her anymore. End of story, time to move on. No matter how much noise you make or words u type, item is sold and the other parties are enjoying their money and new toy... so just carry on with ur hunt for better deals

 

[daydreamz]

dkw - your last sentence and the rest your comments don't quite match. In informality & honor we do believe, that is exactly the point of my thread.

Everyone's points have been well received by me, I can assure you that...even if they're contrary mine or supporting mine. No worries, item is not rare but it's a matter of principles here I thought (which are important to some of us)...anyways...taking heed to your words and moving on...!

Cheers.

 

[drakon09]

In a perfect world, bids would be transparent and posted in the open on the B & S thread. No PM, SMS, PMS or whatever.

In a perfect world, the seller would also state the date and time of when the bid ends, and honours it.

But a perfect world it is not.

 

[Frijj]

Lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill.
These things happen, it's up to the seller to decide who he sells to.
Live and let live.

 

[daydreamz]

frijj - who decides what is a mountain and what is a mole hill? coz these are very subjective terms....no?!? each to his own as u say....so your mountain could be a mole hill to me and vice versa!

Lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill.
These things happen, it's up to the seller to decide who he sells to.
Live and let live.

 

[Frijj]

Yes, to each his own.

You can keep up with your self indulgence and keep adding to your little 'mountain' of a problem. It's not going to change the situation.

Well, since you're soldering on with your cause, all the best!

 

[daydreamz]

Certainly not soldering on, but will most certainly defend lame, subjective, personal and judgemental posts/responses. Whereas any constructive opinion on the subject will be upheld in the highest respect. ur post certainly does not fit the latter. Cheers.

Yes, to each his own.

You can keep up with your self indulgence and keep adding to your little 'mountain' of a problem. It's not going to change the situation.

Well, since you're soldering on with your cause, all the best!

 

[daydreamz]

Thanks drakon for some good meaningful thoughts and suggestions! :thumbsup: to more such honourable sellers and CS'ers. cheers.

In a perfect world, bids would be transparent and posted in the open on the B & S thread. No PM, SMS, PMS or whatever.

In a perfect world, the seller would also state the date and time of when the bid ends, and honours it.

But a perfect world it is not.

 

[denmad]

yes, a deal is a deal. but just because you posted on his thread doesn't make it a deal. all you did was make an offer.

one more vote for "up to the seller"

threadstarter, are you asking for our opinion, or trying to convince everyone that you've been wronged? cos there seems to be pretty strong majority saying that the seller did nothing wrong in your scenario

I agree with "just because you posted on his thread doesn't make it a deal. all you did was make an offer." The seller has to agree with your bid to make it a deal. Only when both sides agree is there then a contract between the 2; a contract (or deal if you want to put it that way) cannot be unilaterally entered into, as simple as that.

This is unless of course the seller stipulated that he will definitely sell his item if you meet a price he has named price, but here's the thing (though I may be wrong): he is obliged to sell to the first such offer made known to him (please correct me if I am wrong on this, folks). This makes SMS guy the "winner" in the TS's case, no matter who else did what and when.

However, once such an agreement has been entered into by both parties, both parties are obliged to carry it through. The seller cannot then sell to a higher bidder, nor can the buyer withdraw. How to enforce this is outside the scope of this discussion, but I will say that it is definitely not up to the seller once this has happened.

 

[daydreamz]

Thank you denmad. I do understand your POV on this, yes what you say does make me see things in a slightly different light now. :think:

I think you're one of the only persons on this post who has responded analytically and taken a real objective view on this query. Errr...are u lawyer...!?

Thanks mate, u made a difference to this discussion! :thumbsup:

I agree with "just because you posted on his thread doesn't make it a deal. all you did was make an offer." The seller has to agree with your bid to make it a deal. Only when both sides agree is there then a contract between the 2; a contract (or deal if you want to put it that way) cannot be unilaterally entered into, as simple as that.

This is unless of course the seller stipulated that he will definitely sell his item if you meet a price he has named price, but here's the thing (though I may be wrong): he is obliged to sell to the first such offer made known to him (please correct me if I am wrong on this, folks). This makes SMS guy the "winner" in the TS's case, no matter who else did what and when.

However, once such an agreement has been entered into by both parties, both parties are obliged to carry it through. The seller cannot then sell to a higher bidder, nor can the buyer withdraw. How to enforce this is outside the scope of this discussion, but I will say that it is definitely not up to the seller once this has happened.

 

[denmad]

Thank you denmad. I do understand your POV on this, yes what you say does make me see things in a slightly different light now. :think:

I think you're one of the only persons on this post who has responded analytically and taken a real objective view on this query. Errr...are u lawyer...!?

Thanks mate, u made a difference to this discussion! :thumbsup:

I am glad that my post has made you take a step back and reevaluate the situation. I'm not a lawyer, so I am not very sure of the statement I made on who is "legally" the first one to offer. I would love to have someone who is a lawyer enlighten me on what kind of legal status a forum posting actually has.

As for your case, was there a sort of a "buy now" price offered by the seller?

 

[pai]

In that case neither myself nor SMS person had a deal!?? both made offers only albeit through different mediums. So what are you trying to prove by that point of yours!??

sorry if i wasn't clear. the person who SMS'd also made an offer. the offer was accepted, so it became a deal. thanks denmad, for helping to clarify.

I do agree with you that majority in my thread are saying to the contrary to what I felt was the wrong thing. Am still waiting for the really exemplary B&S users to come in and comment, which as per my experience there are many. Although a few in my thread are also saying otherwise, and seem to be the kind of sellers it'd be a pleasure to deal with (ndroo, zcf, michhy....others wanna join the list too!??) :angel:

i hope you're not suggesting that those of us who posted earlier are not "exemplary B&S users"

 

[Frijj]

Certainly not soldering on, but will most certainly defend lame, subjective, personal and judgemental posts/responses. Whereas any constructive opinion on the subject will be upheld in the highest respect. ur post certainly does not fit the latter. Cheers.

Get off your high horse. This is a forum and not some contest where you are the judge. Nobody needs your endorsement on their inputs.

Someone didn't sell you something, that's all. We all emphatise with how you feel, but get a grip and move on, there's more to life than not being able to buy something on a forum. Stop being petty and self obsessed.

Since you seem to have loads of time, why don't you champion this next discussion: "Why do CSers always place a bid on items even though the price firm, and/or bid below the reserve price when the reserve price is clearly stated?"

When you're done with all your "studies", publish a paper here, it'll make good reading.

Have fun!

 

[daydreamz]

Hi denmad, yup there was a buy now price offered which was reached by both buyers. I reached it by posting on the thread first and was later reached by buyer2 thru SMS. Except the seller saw only the sms and closed the deal via sms (nothing was mentioned on his thread that only SMS bids would be entertained or that SMS bids would be given priority over thread etc).

Hmmmm....don't really a legal opinion lah....after all it's just an informal forum. My thread was only meant to seek some clarity on what my other fellow CS'ers read of this situ, also it's more of etiquette / honor that has given such high standards in CS B&S forums.

To me after reading ur post, matter is closed...it did give me a different perspective on the situ and I sent a PM to the seller explaining the difference in interpretation. He will offer the item to the SMS buyer today as per plan and if no deal for some reason, then he has promised to call me. In fact we have even become good acquaintances over this incident, there is certainly no love lost! (reading all of the above reactions/comments one would not imagine that!! haha)

Thanks mate.

I am glad that my post has made you take a step back and reevaluate the situation. I'm not a lawyer, so I am not very sure of the statement I made on who is "legally" the first one to offer. I would love to have someone who is a lawyer enlighten me on what kind of legal status a forum posting actually has.

As for your case, was there a sort of a "buy now" price offered by the seller?

 

[zcf]

so now, what is the meaning of "buy now price"? Is it the price that the seller must sell to the 1st buyer who offer the price? Or the price the seller will consider to sell? :think:

 

[daydreamz]

Hi pai, point taken...denmand clinched the core of the debate and put it all in very nicely.

On the exemplary sellers bit, hehehe...i leave you to read some of the comments and interpret for yourself....!!

Cheers mate.

sorry if i wasn't clear. the person who SMS'd also made an offer. the offer was accepted, so it became a deal. thanks denmad, for helping to clarify.



i hope you're not suggesting that those of us who posted earlier are not "exemplary B&S users"

 

[daydreamz]

zcf - as per unanimous opinion in the thread it seems like the seller is the ultimate king of the jungle and has the ultimate discretion to sell as he pleases, how he pleases and to whom he pleases huh!??!! all these terms and guidelines have little meaning therefore...cross your fingers & hope for the best!

so now, what is the meaning of "buy now price"? Is it the price that the seller must sell to the 1st buyer who offer the price? Or the price the seller will consider to sell? :think:

 

[daydreamz]

Oooohhh....ouch....looks like someone got pricked hard enuff to start making mountains out of a mole hill now is it...!?!?? ;p

Get off your high horse. This is a forum and not some contest where you are the judge. Nobody needs your endorsement on their inputs.

Someone didn't sell you something, that's all. We all emphatise with how you feel, but get a grip and move on, there's more to life than not being able to buy something on a forum. Stop being petty and self obsessed.

Since you seem to have loads of time, why don't you champion this next discussion: "Why do CSers always place a bid on items even though the price firm, and/or bid below the reserve price when the reserve price is clearly stated?"

When you're done with all your "studies", publish a paper here, it'll make good reading.

Have fun!

 

[Canonised]

To the TS, go to the library and read up on "Laws of Contracts" and you will never need to ask such questions .....:dunno:

 

[pokiemon]

firstly, i disagree with your statement on the terms and guidelines carry little meaning. The terms and guidelines are here to ensure members observe the etiquette of this forum. it doesn't state how a seller should conduct his business (post). neither does it form a contract between a seller and buyer. it is a different issue from your experience.

secondly, the seller is NOT "the ultimate king of the jungle and has the ultimate discretion to sell as he pleases, how he pleases and to whom he pleases". it is all about demand and supply. if there is strong demand, yes you can choose who you wish to sell to and how you sell it. on the other hand, if there is little demand, then you are at the beck and call of the buyer. i know this through my experience more often as a seller than buyer. having said that, sometimes as a seller, i may not necessary sell to the person who tries to outbid the other or the perso who offers the highest price. sometimes it is about selling to the right person too.

i agree it will be nice to come across ethical buyers and sellers. and it is through this experience that we make friends. you should continue to stick to your beliefs, which will be for the better for the community. however you also need be aware in this world, all kinds of people exist.