Price Go up BUT salary still the same!!!!!!!!!!

[Samie]

life is never as sweet without the sour, don't you think?

Indeed. You never know what (real) sweetness is until you have truly experience bitterness/sourness.

I have been working in a "high-tax welfare" country where the GST is 25% and the personal income tax could be as high as 51% (for an annual income of approx. S$81,000) for many years (even now). The government does not subsidise fuel and currently a litre of 95 petrol cost $2.95 with absolutely no discount or any loyalty program.

Whenever I compare Singapore with the countries that I have worked in previously, I really find it "sweet" to live in Singapore. Of course, one can argue that in a "high-tax welfare" country, the government actually takes care of the basic necessities. But, how well are they managing it? I have seem and experienced enough to have my doubts.

Happy shooting

 

[night86mare]

well, like i always say, there are compromises

i have always been accused of putting my choice of country to study in down - but the uk, for all its hoo-ha about full democracy and liberalism.. i can see the attraction; i can also see the compromises that have resulted. i like it, and i hate it; a friend once made a point that singapore's politics were probably unique to singapore alone, it is a very different country on a literally much smaller scale.. which is possibly why the west can never understand it.. and such ideas flow over to the people.

are we really in a bad state of affairs? i do not know, but i have lived a good life here, and i am content; there is no real need to compare, when one is living in a good place, there is give and take. there is stuff to love in london, there is stuff to love in hong kong, there is stuff to love in singapore. there is also stuff to hate. and i do not know about everybody else, but wherever i go, i try to remember the things i love, so i can have a more enjoyable time with my life, instead of dwelling on the things i detest. but i never forget what i dislike either, because that is also the way to move forward, and make the changes, when we have the ability to do something about it.

 

[conquer500]

I am complaining behalf of alot of people seriously dun u guys think government really forcing us too much ... price go up so heavily and we suffer .... just because they want to earn more money for themself then thinking for others.... some of they money they dun even need to spent , its all just for show ... seriously .. i felt wasted and pity for the money they use to wayang for outside people to see ... damn ... why not living standard go down ... cut down taxes ... water , rent everything go down for goodness sake .. and i went bugis today ... SOOOOOOooo many people around .... even mac , mos burger , saki sushi no space to eat ... all those china and india people pls fo ... pls ... no more space in singapore already ... still come for what... simply one day our island will sink ... to the deep deep ocean... want to find a quiet place to study and relax also cannot .... **** up day ..l.

obviously you are not using your brains to think when u are making this comment.

u are living in a first world country for christ sake. do you want to downgrade yourself. if yes, please move on to the nearby country where pace of life is more suitable for you.

 

[conquer500]

i think he's trying to say that understanding of economics would explain why prices can go up and wages still stay the same; the two do not have a direct relation in the first place

still related, companies have to raise prices in order to pay u guys, and to keep the company cash flow running. also companies sometime make razer thin profit to stay in biz, you expect these companies to pay people more. its a circular flow pattern.

 

[Leong23]

We been force to the limitation or you forcing youself to it?

It is still afforable to live in Singapore with average wages, if you
don't enage in expensive hobbies
don't own a car
only eat in food centre or coffee shop
stay in small HDB flat
just do simple renvo for you house
don't use handphone to chit chat
don't change handphone unless it is spoil
don't smoke
don't party
don't do unnecessary shopping and the list go on

If life is really so hard, i advise you to off you computer to save electricity bill and cancel the internet connection too, you life don't really need that...

 

[night86mare]

still related, companies have to raise prices in order to pay u guys, and to keep the company cash flow running. also companies sometime make razer thin profit to stay in biz, you expect these companies to pay people more. its a circular flow pattern.

not really

companies can choose to keep wages constant while prices increase, to ease their load and "reward" less productive workers indirectly

there are links, i grant you there, but there is never a direct link, i.e. if prices go up, my salary should go up. that's like saying that if a lot more people in singapore have sex, we will have a baby boom.. but there are so many intermediate factors that you cannot just jump from point a to b

 

[azul123]

Suddenly we have a flurry of posts defending the establishment, why can't people complain about high cost and rising expenses? thus making it more difficult then before. Who says there is no correlation between pay and price increase? Inflation could have been better managed and if your company takes cue from NWC recommendation on pay increase.

Inflation is going up at a rapid pace and yet GST increase was proceeded and was reported there was budget surplus, you mean all this is justifiable? 10years ago maybe people can be told to take it by the load stock and barrel whole.

../azul123

 

[night86mare]

Suddenly we have a flurry of posts defending the establishment, why can't people complain about high cost and rising expenses? thus making it more difficult then before. Who says there is no correlation between pay and price increase? Inflation could have been better managed and if your company takes cue from NWC recommendation on pay increase.

Inflation is going up at a rapid pace and yet GST increase was proceeded and was reported there was budget surplus, you mean all this is justifiable? 10years ago maybe people can be told to take it by the load stock and barrel whole.

../azul123

...you have just repeated what has been said before...
....
....
....
....

the overbaked sense of self-entitlement is something one would expect amongst my generation.. but what's your excuse?

inflation can be good, like i've said. if anything, it represents growth. if your pay isn't rising, first and foremost, look to yourself - why isn't your pay rising? is it because of your boss not giving you any increments? so how is that bound to the government, unless you are part of the civil service (where the pay is actually getting quite attractive by the day)? you would not be so vocal about having the government introduce legislation (seems you are suggesting it) that companies have mandatory increment of pay.. if you were the owner of a company. if running a business is so easy, then perhaps you might consider doing it.. and then you can make others complain by not upping their pay because you simply can't.

regarding the budget surplus, there are always two sides to a coin. by the way, most people's line of argument is that the gst increase will hit the poor, the middle and upper class will not experience much problem from it, correct? then the gst rebates given, based on income category, are more than enough to alleviate the problem.

when i was in hong kong, i read with extreme amusement many angry forum letters in their english newspaper asking for erp. it is ironic.. i thought perhaps the two could swap governments.. i guess people complain everywhere. hurhur. no erp also complain, got erp already still not happy.

so yes, times might be getting hard, eventually; but not right now. i think it is actually a good thing that malaysia is relatively stuck in a rut; had they proven to be better competitors we would be more or less in deep ****.. if you think this is bad; think again when they get their act together. and this is the attitude you want to tide us over harder times? the one of looking to the government, and blaming everything on them? next time, when x gets knocked down by car, you'd be sure some dude somewhere will be complaining that the government should have done something ridiculously inappropriate and therefore saved x's life. a progressive attitude, this is not.

complaining is all fine and dandy; but if you are complaining just because you have too much air in your lungs, then i have a right to express my opinion about your complaints as well.

 

[theveed]

Ha ha ha ... good one.

Agree hehe...

A lot of "employees" don't see things from a business perspective as well... In a utopian world, everyone will be well off but if you think about that, what's the point in life...

If you feel you're shorthanded in your current profession, switch companies, switch jobs... The world doesn't revolve around you.

One thing people have to realize is, it's human nature to say "i don't have enough" no matter what happens... so stop whining and do something you can control.

 

[azul123]

inflation can be good, like i've said. if anything, it represents growth. if your pay isn't rising, first and foremost, look to yourself - why isn't your pay rising? is it because of your boss not giving you any increments? so how is that bound to the government, unless you are part of the civil service (where the pay is actually getting quite attractive by the day)? you would not be so vocal about having the government introduce legislation (seems you are suggesting it) that companies have mandatory increment of pay.. if you were the owner of a company. if running a business is so easy, then perhaps you might consider doing it.. and then you can make others complain by not upping their pay because you simply can't.

How is that bound? when you raised gst by 2%, what impact to inflation? don't you know? I thought you were talking economics blah blah here and there.

Don't you think that will increase business cost.. and you think businesses will absorb? definitely no and it will pass down to consumer.

regarding the budget surplus, there are always two sides to a coin. by the way, most people's line of argument is that the gst increase will hit the poor, the middle and upper class will not experience much problem from it, correct? then the gst rebates given, based on income category, are more than enough to alleviate the problem.

Do you have figures on the surplus that was made and how much of these went to poor, in terms of % how much of the surplus, you think 100%? 75%? only then it is reasonable statement to say. Tell us how much of these surplus really was given back to the poor. I would like to know that.

so yes, times might be getting hard, eventually; but not right now. i think it is actually a good thing that malaysia is relatively stuck in a rut; had they proven to be better competitors we would be more or less in deep ****.. if you think this is bad; think again when they get their act together. and this is the attitude you want to tide us over harder times? the one of looking to the government, and blaming everything on them? next time, when x gets knocked down by car, you'd be sure some dude somewhere will be complaining that the government should have done something ridiculously inappropriate and therefore saved x's life. a progressive attitude, this is not.

Yes, hard times are a coming and it will be relatively sooner then most people think when US goes into recession, there will be cost cutting and job losses for sure, and our economy is still tied very much closely to US, so we will be hit.

Looks like we have not learnt our lessons to diversify beyond US markets fast enough, from previous hits, we do see that we are being encouraged to move into Middle-East, South-Asian, China markets..

complaining is all fine and dandy; but if you are complaining just because you have too much air in your lungs, then i have a right to express my opinion about your complaints as well.

Airing one's views are avenue to raise complencies and inefficiencies, why else you think the Taxi stop at Taxi Stand rule was reverse without people complaining about it? defending for defend sake is futile with a growing populace who are now more informed and knowledgeable.

../azul123

 

[azul123]

Aiyah which part of your post did you edit ah? but I can't be bothered to check through which portion was edited... just like previous other threads before.

I can engage with you but if you keep editing it after the fact then I won't be bothered to reply anymore.

../azul123

 

[night86mare]

Don't you think that will increase business cost.. and you think businesses will absorb? definitely no and it will pass down to consumer.

Do you have figures on the surplus that was made and how much of these went to poor, in terms of % how much of the surplus, you think 100%? 75%? only then it is reasonable statement to say. Tell us how much of these surplus really was given back to the poor. I would like to know that.

Airing one's views are avenue to raise complencies and inefficiencies, why else you think the Taxi stop at Taxi Stand rule was reverse without people complaining about it? defending for defend sake is futile with a growing populace who are now more informed and knowledgeable.

aiya, i only write about hong kong la

1) no, business costs will not increase, like i've said before, gst registered companies get to claim back the gst they pay for operating costs (including inputs/raw materials) from the gahment, so don't anyhow say :nono: you listen to the chicken rice store small boy too much, he tell you gst increase means he must raise his chicken rice from 2.50 to 3 , that's his exploitation, nothing to do with gahment

2) ...as cold as it sounds, why should any surplus go to the poor? singapore should not be run like a business, neither should it be run like a charity. we all want that safety net to catch us, but from the big picture, too much welfarism breeds complacency, and a lack of backbone. the inefficiencies in the nhs (even today, i tell you firsthand - my school's "free medical service" recommends gargling saltwater for every ailment, including pneumonia) and the fact that most european states (yes, welfare lor) happen to have amazingly high unemployment rates for their "welfare status". there are valid cases, where people are poor by circumstance, and cannot break free - there are also many invalid cases, where people are actually poor by their own mistakes. are you saying that the people who have not made these mistakes should pay as well? i think right now, the government has actually maintained a fine balance between "too little" and "too much". i would not actually encourage welfarism; it has never ever worked out, and it never will, because of human nature.

so please, spare us the views of being robin hood. poverty is never solved by giving cash to the poor; it is much better to provide them with opportunities to move beyond; and i think the education system, while a little too.. gimmicky at times, is actually trying to do that. although we seem to be "pushing up" too many people just for the sake of awarding degrees - it is actually a compromise, in the long run you have more graduates or skilled labour; and you also get a degradation of the value of local degrees.

3) i like it that you have brought up the taxi stand rule; is it not a prominent example that feedback is taken and corrected when necessary? if a government accedes to the every request of its people, without even careful consideration of the benefits and detrimental effects of doing so; then i would not want such a government, since it is weak.

 

[azul123]

aiya, i only write about hong kong la

1) no, business costs will not increase, like i've said before, gst registered companies get to claim back the gst they pay for operating costs (including inputs/raw materials) from the gahment, so don't anyhow say :nono: you listen to the chicken rice store small boy too much, he tell you gst increase means he must raise his chicken rice from 2.50 to 3 , that's his exploitation, nothing to do with gahment

???
Cost of rice increase, cost of eggs increase so no need to increase price? why cost of food stuff increase? transportation cost up so how business cost will not increase? Company buy stationery cost increase because the supplies have to add 2% gst more. I too layman I can't understand your argument. GST by definition is Goods and Services Tax, meaning anything that you buy from whether goods or services that you pay increases consumer pay more, that was what TS was stating, of course business cost goes up, like many businesses they buy services and goods from others so their cost goes up as well, I layman can also understand this.

2) ...as cold as it sounds, why should any surplus go to the poor? singapore should not be run like a business, neither should it be run like a charity. we all want that safety net to catch us, but from the big picture, too much welfarism breeds complacency, and a lack of backbone. the inefficiencies in the nhs (even today, i tell you firsthand - my school's "free medical service" recommends gargling saltwater for every ailment, including pneumonia) and the fact that most european states (yes, welfare lor) happen to have amazingly high unemployment rates for their "welfare status". there are valid cases, where people are poor by circumstance, and cannot break free - there are also many invalid cases, where people are actually poor by their own mistakes. are you saying that the people who have not made these mistakes should pay as well? i think right now, the government has actually maintained a fine balance between "too little" and "too much". i would not actually encourage welfarism; it has never ever worked out, and it never will, because of human nature.

So, this is the best you can do to counter?

so please, spare us the views of being robin hood. poverty is never solved by giving cash to the poor; it is much better to provide them with opportunities to move beyond; and i think the education system, while a little too.. gimmicky at times, is actually trying to do that. although we seem to be "pushing up" too many people just for the sake of awarding degrees - it is actually a compromise, in the long run you have more graduates or skilled labour; and you also get a degradation of the value of local degrees.

I think you should then tell that to the establishment as that is what they plan to do from what I read in yesterday's paper ST Page 4 "Bigger payouts for poor to be given out earlier". In case you plan to use this to counter my earlier post, please note my query is how much of the % of surplus was given back? my real gist is why make surpluses by increasing 2% gst when inflation is reported to increase to levels not seen before in more than 10yrs? It does not makes sense to me to have people feeling the squeeze and we have huge surpluses from taxes.

3) i like it that you have brought up the taxi stand rule; is it not a prominent example that feedback is taken and corrected when necessary? if a government accedes to the every request of its people, without even careful consideration of the benefits and detrimental effects of doing so; then i would not want such a government, since it is weak.

So, what are you saying exactly? was the implementation not thought through carefully before implementing? wasn't there feedback prior to implementation and yet was implemented?

../azul123

 

[azul123]

Oh, going out now... so won't be able to reply anytime soon.

../azul123

 

[night86mare]

???
Cost of rice increase, cost of eggs increase so no need to increase price? why cost of food stuff increase? transportation cost up so how business cost will not increase? Company buy stationery cost increase because the supplies have to add 2% gst more. I too layman I can't understand your argument. GST by definition is Goods and Services Tax, meaning anything that you buy from whether goods or services that you pay increases consumer pay more, that was what TS was stating, of course business cost goes up, like many businesses they buy services and goods from others so their cost goes up as well, I layman can also understand this.

So, this is the best you can do to counter?

I think you should then tell that to the establishment as that is what they plan to do from what I read in yesterday's paper ST Page 4 "Bigger payouts for poor to be given out earlier". In case you plan to use this to counter my earlier post, please note my query is how much of the % of surplus was given back? my real gist is why make surpluses by increasing 2% gst when inflation is reported to increase to levels not seen before in more than 10yrs? It does not makes sense to me to have people feeling the squeeze and we have huge surpluses from taxes.

yes, you are uninformed

just like most of the population

Why Should I Register?

* Most businesses register for GST to claim back the GST incurred on their business purchases.

* When GST paid exceeds GST collected, the difference can be claimed from IRAS as a GST refund.

* When GST collected exceeds GST paid, you have to pay the difference to IRAS.

* When GST rate increase, it may make business sense to voluntarily register to collect GST in order to claim back GST incurred on business purchases.

source - sounds very fair to me

if you still do not understand, if my inputs are $1.07, and i sell my product for $2.14, collecting $0.14 gst, and paying $0.07 gst.. then i give the $0.07 excess to gahment

compare this to previous scenario, inputs will be $1.05 (assuming base price same), and i sell my product for $2.10, collecting $0.10 gst, and paying $0.05 gst.. then i give $0.05 excess to gahment. by right, in both cases, my profit still remains the same. $1 profit.

converse is true if gst paid exceeds gst collected, i get to claim the difference.

one could argue that oh, the $1 profit collected is less than before, so businesses have to jack up their profits.. since the $1 is now exchangeable for less goods. so initially $1 will get you $1/1.05 worth of goods, now i need about $1.019074blah to get the same amount of goods in the past. so i just have to charge $2.16. so firstly, the businesses actually do not suffer, if they register for gst; and secondly, the consumers do not suffer as much as it seems - a raise of 2 cents (all amounts being equal in proportion) is in actuality 0.9% increase across the board in pricings, IF the businesses are transparent and fair. but they are not. and all this is blamed on the government; your fishball noodle seller might have registered for gst, since he has nothing to lose.. but he doesn't tell you that, he tells you that "oh no, overheads increase, tada, i charge you 50 cents more".. and people kbkb.

the funniest part is, azul, i remember posting this argument with similar source before in response to threads you were active in; either you must have forgotten, or you do not bother to read.

i am amused by your response to my response. the best you can do, is scoff at my response, instead of offering anything to counter it? bravo!

well, the administration will do what it will; there is a trend of starting to bend to the demands of the people, i do wish it was not so.

 

[CYRN]

y

if you still do not understand, if my inputs are $1.07, and i sell my product for $2.14, collecting $0.14 gst, and paying $0.07 gst.. then i give the $0.07 excess to gahment

compare this to previous scenario, inputs will be $1.05 (assuming base price same), and i sell my product for $2.10, collecting $0.10 gst, and paying $0.05 gst.. then i give $0.05 excess to gahment. by right, in both cases, my profit still remains the same. $1 profit.

But from end-consumer POV... now hav to pay $2.14 instead of $2.10... or if there's no GST, then only $2.00. That's on top of inflation on the price of goods that are beyond Gov's control...

For example... rice used to cost (lets say) $1/kg last year... now it cost about $2/kg. If I buy 10kg of rice last year it cost me $10.50, but now it cost me $21.40 for the same amount of rice.

I'm sure we can grumble but we aren't pointing fingers at the cost of product, But rather Gov can help (within their ability) in elevating $0.90 diff. Ultimately, GST used for cost $0.50 now it cost $1.40 due to effects of inflation.

 

[night86mare]

But from end-consumer POV... now hav to pay $2.14 instead of $2.10... or if there's no GST, then only $2.00. That's on top of inflation on the price of goods that are beyond Gov's control...

For example... rice used to cost (lets say) $1/kg last year... now it cost about $2/kg. If I buy 10kg of rice last year it cost me $10.50, but now it cost me $21.40 for the same amount of rice.

I'm sure we can grumble but we aren't pointing fingers at the cost of product, But rather Gov can help (within their ability) in elevating $0.90 diff. Ultimately, GST used for cost $0.50 now it cost $1.40 due to effects of inflation.

alamak, you want to scrape gst altogether? we are not saudi arabia :nono:

how would the government help? another case where people are suggesting is follow the examples of china and malaysia (if i remember correctly) subsidising the petrol price increase. by subsidies you do a number of bad things - eroding your reserves, and you are effectively breeding your people to embrace another reality, one whereby prices of certain commodities are cheaper than elsewhere; you can say it is alright in the short run and i will agree, but in the long run?

we learn in economics that people will have to adjust their consumption baskets (i.e. their choice of goods) according to prices set by the market. maybe it is too simplistic, but it is not really that disconnected from reality. if rice becomes too expensive, turn to bread. if bread becomes too expensive, then turn to potatoes. i question you - do you have to eat rice all the way? when it was ww2, did you see the governments subsidising rice? no, people grew tapioca and ate that. meddling with prices is never good - the market should be allowed to clear itself.

sometimes, i think we have grown too dependent on the government, and look to it like a paternal figure too much. but our government is not omnipresent, neither is it omnipotent; and i am not giving excuses for its inability to help out with petrol prices and rice pricings.. but the fact is that; no government can do anything that will not have negative side effects at the same time - so it has made its choice, and there will be good out of it too - as for what it should have done , well, only time will tell, won't you agree?

 

[CYRN]

alamak, you want to scrape gst altogether? we are not saudi arabia :nono:

how would the government help? another case where people are suggesting is follow the examples of china and malaysia (if i remember correctly) subsidising the petrol price increase. by subsidies you do a number of bad things - eroding your reserves, and you are effectively breeding your people to embrace another reality, one whereby prices of certain commodities are cheaper than elsewhere; you can say it is alright in the short run and i will agree, but in the long run?

we learn that people will have to adjust their consumption baskets (i.e. their choice of goods) according to prices set by the market. if rice becomes too expensive, turn to bread. if bread becomes too expensive, then turn to potatoes. i question you - do you have to eat rice all the way? when it was ww2, did you see the governments subsidising rice? no, people grew tapioca and ate that. meddling with prices is never good - the market should be allowed to clear itself.

sometimes, i think we have grown too dependent on the government, and look to it like a paternal figure too much. but our government is not omnipresent, neither is it omnipotent; and i am not giving excuses for its inability to help out with petrol prices and rice pricings.. but the fact is that; no government can do anything that will not have negative side effects at the same time - so it has made its choice, and there will be good out of it too - as for what it should have done , well, only time will tell, won't you agree?

No lah... I also against subsidy scheme or price control.

But just as we are expected to be flexible in adjusting what we consume, we expect Gov to be flexible in their policies to match economical situation as well. Especially when you read the first post of the link... http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?t=9794

 

[night86mare]

No lah... I also against subsidy scheme or price control.

But just as we are expected to be flexible in adjusting what we consume, we expect Gov to be flexible in their policies to match economical situation as well. Especially when you read the first post of the likn... http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?t=9794

there will be no one single person that does not wish that his government could do better; i am no different, i hope people who read all my posts here understand that, instead of thinking i am a blind follower - at least the people who have accused me of somehow being linked directly have disappeared, and i am glad

politics is a very trecherous path, i feel, one that i would never dabble in; i am more than happy to stand at the sidelines and see what it is like - in some sense, all politicians will be the same; they are humans too, they have their ways of thinking, and hopefully they do better on the part of the people instead of their political career. i am more than relieved, sometimes, when our ministers go against public opinion, it shows that they are willing to do what they believe in instead of following the people's will for votes eventually - like examples in various overseas countries would show. of course, it is also important to note that this can be a double-edged sword.

we must also remember, that while gst clashes with the budget surplus, it is a long-run policy. a famous economist once said that "in the long run, we are all dead".. which may in some ways express the views of the majority, that the short run is more important because it is after all, the present - but this doesn't mean that we can just forget the future

 

[azul123]

yes, you are uninformed

just like most of the population



source - sounds very fair to me

if you still do not understand, if my inputs are $1.07, and i sell my product for $2.14, collecting $0.14 gst, and paying $0.07 gst.. then i give the $0.07 excess to gahment

Yes, but you fail to mention that your input $1.07 your vendor would have increased it as well since they too collect gst, because what you used to buy from your source the prices have increased as they too collect gst.

It is so simple and yet you fail to see what I am trying to say. I am not disputing the collection part.. I am stating the increased in your raw material cost will undoubtedly increase your own cost due to increase in gst.

I try to simplify it in the simplest way already. Although you only indicate a small input amount of $1.07, but many products raw material are not that simplistic every parts and services from their vendor increases.

../azul123