Powershot S3 IS

[KTi]

Went to SLS today, asked AP on S3 price, was quoted $760. but they no longer have stock and will have to take the display set (salesman claimed it is new). Went to another shop at corner of Burlington, shop name is Ace XXX, the salesman told me $738 incl. GST.

Seems like price is coming steadily downwards.

 

[tks]

Jackal, like I posted above, the standard speed is not good for 30fps video with VGA resolution......so, getting a highspeed is worth it! Just that I did not try on the Kingston Elitpro which is only 50X, though I have tried on a TwinMos UltraX 66X.

I sincerely beileve that the highspeed card will help on the performance of continuous mode capturing. Do some simple maths, assuming the color depth is the same, then VGA video with 30fps means data transfer is 9.216 MPix/sec. While in 6 Mpix mode with continous shooting, it is like 2.3pic/sec, this means 13.8 Mpix/sec!! Much higher than the video mode! So I think it is worth the small diff in $ to invest on a highspeed card.

This is my tot......;p

This is a bit of a follow-up on my min-tutorial on post #544 on page 28 which talks about FAT, SLC, MMC and card speed ratings.

Hi lastboltnut,

I think you got Mpix confused with Mb?

For the video, how do you get 9.2M/s? In dpreview and elsewhere, everyone assumes 2M/s which I think is wrong. 2M/s means only about 14x which means many standard cards will be sufficient. But this is not true. Even my 20x Ridata cannot make it. Canon's specs say a 512MB card can take MAXIMUM 4 min 9 secs of VGA video. This means the 2M/s speed is actually the MINIMUM speed required. I don't know what is the max speed required. Maybe double that? My 20x Ridata can take VGA videos at 15 fps comfortably, and so I reckon 40x should be sufficient for 30 fps. This is confirmed by many people who have used 40x cards without problems. Using this logic, all the mid-range cards like Elite Pro should have no problems (for VGA video only) since they should have speeds of 50x and above.

For high-speed continuous shooting mode, the manual says approx 2.3 shots per second. I noticed that the picture sizes can range from 2.6M to almost 4M. At 2.3 shots/sec, this is like 9.2M/s which works out to about 63x. This will mean that the Elite Pro series of cards may not be able to make it for high-speed continuous shooting.

The conclusion is that unless you are very sure you will not need it, it is best to get something that is 66x and above, so that your card will definitely work all the time. I myself advocate those really fast cards like Kingston Ultimate, which is 120x or 133x. It definitely works and is relatively inexpensive. It is also more likely to be fast enough for your next even faster camera.

 

[ryuggen]

Just being curious, does s3 is a power guzzler?

 

[cerebrus]

Just being curious, does s3 is a power guzzler?

Nope! It can shoot for quite a loong time on a set of fresh 2500 NiMHs.

 

[lowem]

In dpreview and elsewhere, everyone assumes 2M/s which I think is wrong. 2M/s means only about 14x which means many standard cards will be sufficient. But this is not true.

I've got a bunch of videos already and as I've blogged, here are the specs for the encoded video :

video : 14,644 kbps Motion JPEG
audio : 44.1 KHz PCM stereo

Which works out to 1830.5 KB/sec for the video portion and 172.3 KB/sec for the audio, for a total of about 2002.8 KB/sec, which is slightly less than 2 MB/sec.

But I'd suppose that's an average reading (not so sure about this codec), and the instantaneous video bit-rate could well be higher in certain parts of the video. From my experience it might be 2-3 times higher.

So if you say 2 MB/sec works out to 14x, 3 times faster than that may require, say 42x <- just speculating.

 

[lowem]

I should also repeat here that IMHO, the bitrates that the Canon S3 IS uses for its videos are really quite insane. Come on, use MPEG4 video and MP3 audio already! What day and age is this, it ain't 1999

 

[tks]

Hi lowem,

Good choice for your progress package money! For the videos, did you take at 30fps all the way till the card is full?

2MB/s is probably the most common but also the minimum bit rate. Canon's specs say a 512MB card will give you MAXIMUM 4 min 9 seconds. This means the minimum bit rate is 512MB per 249 secs or 2.056MB/s or 14x. You may be right that in theory, the bit rate could go up to 2 or 3 times at certain parts of the video. This means 28x or 42x. But we really do not know. What I know is that I have tested a 20x Ridata several times, and each time the video fails before the card is full. On the other hand, most users with 50x cards have reported no problems for 30fps VGA video.

I am not familiar with MPEG-4. With the current AVI, I am able to retrieve frames from the video. Will that be possible with MPEG-4?

 

[lowem]

Good choice for your progress package money! For the videos, did you take at 30fps all the way till the card is full?

Florence at MSColor also said that a lot of people are doing the same "use thy progress money" thing for their S3 IS, heh heh. Um, for the videos I only took short clips so far, maybe 15 sec to 1-2 min or so, no problem with my 50x card.

I am not familiar with MPEG-4. With the current AVI, I am able to retrieve frames from the video. Will that be possible with MPEG-4?

Sure, no problem. MPEG-4 is usually stored in an AVI file container format, just a different video codec from mjpg. I can, and have retrieved frames, put a string of videos together, edited, put captions, etc, whether DIVX or mjpg or XVID, usually it'd be supported nowadays.

 

[tks]

If I am not wrong, there is some kind of memory buffer in the camera, amount not known to me. This means if you are taking very short clips or not more that a few continuous shots, you may be able to get away with a slow speed card. To properly test whether a card can work or not, you need to take more than what this buffer can store, all the way till the card is full.

 

[lastboltnut]

Hi tks,

I think you have mis-read my post. I was refering to MegaPixel and not MB. And by the way MB=MegaByte and Mb=MegaBit. I did not go to B/b level because I was lazy to go and calculate the colour depth of the video and pic mode.

So, at Pixel level:

VGA 30fps = 640*480*30=9,216,000 Pixel/s = 9.2 MPixel/s (multiply with colour depth bits/pixel if you know the figure to get the bit/s, which is not necessary).

2.3pic/s at 6 MPixel mode = 6,000,000*2.3=13,800,000Pixel/s=13.8 MPixel/s.

Since tested and proven that a standard speed SD card cannot handle the video transfer rate of 9.2 MPixel/s properly (omitted the audio bitrate), how much better can it cope with a 13.8MPixel/s transfer rate?

Therefore, I conclude based on Pixel level that it is better to get a high speed card, which I have tested a 66x card can do the job, while some other bros here have tested with 50x also ok.

BTW, my 3mins video is 348MB and this means transfer rate of 348/3/60=1.933MB/s and this translated to 1.933/0.15=12.88X speed only. If this is true, then normal speed SD card should do the job, but practically proven otherwise. I think lowem is right in his comment below that there might be an instantaneous surge in video bit-rate.

Which works out to 1830.5 KB/sec for the video portion and 172.3 KB/sec for the audio, for a total of about 2002.8 KB/sec, which is slightly less than 2 MB/sec.

But I'd suppose that's an average reading (not so sure about this codec), and the instantaneous video bit-rate could well be higher in certain parts of the video. From my experience it might be 2-3 times higher.

So if you say 2 MB/sec works out to 14x, 3 times faster than that may require, say 42x <- just speculating.

This is a bit of a follow-up on my min-tutorial on post #544 on page 28 which talks about FAT, SLC, MMC and card speed ratings.

Hi lastboltnut,

I think you got Mpix confused with Mb?

For the video, how do you get 9.2M/s? In dpreview and elsewhere, everyone assumes 2M/s which I think is wrong. 2M/s means only about 14x which means many standard cards will be sufficient. But this is not true. Even my 20x Ridata cannot make it. Canon's specs say a 512MB card can take MAXIMUM 4 min 9 secs of VGA video. This means the 2M/s speed is actually the MINIMUM speed required. I don't know what is the max speed required. Maybe double that? My 20x Ridata can take VGA videos at 15 fps comfortably, and so I reckon 40x should be sufficient for 30 fps. This is confirmed by many people who have used 40x cards without problems. Using this logic, all the mid-range cards like Elite Pro should have no problems (for VGA video only) since they should have speeds of 50x and above.

For high-speed continuous shooting mode, the manual says approx 2.3 shots per second. I noticed that the picture sizes can range from 2.6M to almost 4M. At 2.3 shots/sec, this is like 9.2M/s which works out to about 63x. This will mean that the Elite Pro series of cards may not be able to make it for high-speed continuous shooting.

The conclusion is that unless you are very sure you will not need it, it is best to get something that is 66x and above, so that your card will definitely work all the time. I myself advocate those really fast cards like Kingston Ultimate, which is 120x or 133x. It definitely works and is relatively inexpensive. It is also more likely to be fast enough for your next even faster camera.

 

[lastboltnut]

I think the buffer is not too much. As my short clips that has problem is less that 1 min., may be only 20sec and it has frame skip liao.

If I am not wrong, there is some kind of memory buffer in the camera, amount not known to me. This means if you are taking very short clips or not more that a few continuous shots, you may be able to get away with a slow speed card. To properly test whether a card can work or not, you need to take more than what this buffer can store, all the way till the card is full.

 

[lastboltnut]

Fully agreed, they should have the means. But I think it is just a way to do business, if not who will buy Canon Video Cam??

I should also repeat here that IMHO, the bitrates that the Canon S3 IS uses for its videos are really quite insane. Come on, use MPEG4 video and MP3 audio already! What day and age is this, it ain't 1999

 

[lowem]

Fully agreed, they should have the means. But I think it is just a way to do business, if not who will buy Canon Video Cam??

Well ... people who need to record more than 15 min and 28 sec, lol

 

[tks]

Hi tks,

I think you have mis-read my post. I was refering to MegaPixel and not MB. And by the way MB=MegaByte and Mb=MegaBit. I did not go to B/b level because I was lazy to go and calculate the colour depth of the video and pic mode.

Apologies, you were indeed talking only about MegaPixel. I mis-read your post. All these MegalPixel, MegaBit and MegalByte is indeed very confusing, not to mention that different makers have different ideas over how much is one Mega.

 

[lastboltnut]

Yah, make thing worse, academically, 1 KB = 1024B, 1MB=1024KB, 1GB=1024KB......

But most of the storage media manufacturers conveniently uses 1MB=1000KB, and 1GB=1000MB, thus, a 40GB harddisk doesn't give you 40GB reading after you format them with you PC.......

Confusion......

Apologies, you were indeed talking only about MegaPixel. I mis-read your post. All these MegalPixel, MegaBit and MegalByte is indeed very confusing, not to mention that different makers have different ideas over how much is one Mega.

 

[boogle]

Hi everyone. I am new to this forum (only 1 day old). I actually posted something similar in the S3 owners thread but it's not getting much attention

I take photos using Av mode most of the time. Realised that the Exif file did not capture the ISO setting used (shows "unknown" for all my pics) even though I select the ISO settings for my shots.
I've sent the cam in to service center after talking to someone from Canon. I assume it would be a SW or Firmware kind of issue and should be generic to all S3 but the problem seems new to them. Perhaps it because the cam is still relatively new in the mkt.
Do any other S3 owners face this problem with your cam?
I hope I get my cam back soon. Quite sian to have to do without it after owning it for just a week...

 

[cerebrus]

Hi boogle!

If I am not mistaken, the ISO can only be read directly by Canon's Zoombrowser. Other software cannot read it.

 

[lastboltnut]

I have these data, there is the ISO setting, but cannot remember what mode I shot with, can check from the data below??

Camera: Canon PowerShot S3 IS
Exposure: 0.1 sec (1/10)
Aperture: f/2.7
Focal Length: 6 mm
Focal Length: 2, 600, 230, 173
Exposure Bias: 0/3 EV
Flash: 80

Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution: 180 dpi
Y-Resolution: 180 dpi
Date and Time: 2006:05:21 18:42:18
YCbCr Positioning: Centered
Date and Time (Original): 2006:05:21 18:42:18
Date and Time (Digitized): 2006:05:21 18:42:18
Compressed Bits per Pixel: 3 bits
Shutter Speed: 106/32
Maximum Lens Aperture: 92/32
Metering Mode: Pattern
Color Space: sRGB
Focal Plane X-Resolution: 12515.556 dpi
Focal Plane Y-Resolution: 12497.041 dpi
Sensing Method: One-chip colour area sensor
White Balance: Manual
Digital Zoom Ratio: 2816/2816
Compression: JPEG
Flash Info: 0, 0, 0, 0
Image Type: IMGowerShot S3 IS JPEG
Image Number: 1000506
Camera Info: 0, 1, 0, 178, 2, 4294967295, 4, 3, 0, 0, 19, 10, 177, 178, 283, 574, 77, 0, 4294967293, 177, 411, 283, 498, 4294967294, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 114, 4294967058, 238, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 268, 0, 4294967057, 236, 0, 0, 4287807988, 0, 1024, 1024, 1024, 1280, 4294967056, 237, 1, 913, 1827, 1462, 913, 1, 576, 283, 179, 603, 77, 13, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2888, 5, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 2881, 2948, 8252, 0, 1, 0, 26936, 3, 1, 2792, 36, 13, 2778862706, 15934
Model ID: 26542080
Picture Info: 1, 1, 2816, 2112, 1408, 264, 253, 48, 0, 0, 1, 0
Tag::Canon::0x0013: 0, 0, 0, 0
Tag::Canon::0x0018: 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
Tag::Canon::0x001D: 32, 1, 12, 0, 0, 4, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 38, 0, 0, 0, 0
Tag::Canon::0x001E: 16777472
Tag::Canon::0x001F: 138, 1, 0, 4, 8, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
Tag::Canon::0x0022: 416, 0, 0, 16, 8, 1, 1, 640, 480, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 8, 384, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
Image Width: 2816 pixels
Image Height: 2112 pixels
Macro Mode: Normal
Image Quality: Fine
Continuous Drive: Single
Focus Mode: Single
Canon Image Size: Large
Easy Mode: Manual
Camera ISO: 100
Metering Mode: Evaluative
Focus Range: Auto
AF Point: Manual AF point selection
Canon Exposure Mode: Aperture-Priority AE
Lens: 6 - 72mm
Max Aperture: 92
Min Aperture: 192
Flash Activity: 65535
Focus Continuous: Continuous
AE Setting: Normal AE
Image Stabilization: On
Display Aperture: 2.7
Zoom Source Width: 2816
Zoom Target Width: 2816
ISO: 100
Target Aperture: 5.6568542494924
Target Exposure Time: 0.10065564574683
White Balance: Cloudy
Focus Distance Upper: 5.65
F Number: 2.8
Auto Rotate: None

 

[boogle]

Thanks for the feedback folks! Anyway, at the service center, they downloaded the sample photos I had on my SD and the technician came back to say it indeed does not show the ISO in Exif. I'll keep pestering them to give me back my cam (hopefully with prob solved). Just called today. Still a work in progress...

BTW, do any of you use GP batts? I got 4 of the 2700mah ones and they seem very fat. Can't get them in and out of the batt slots easily. DId not have the same prob with the alkalines that came in the box nor the panasonic batts I have.

 

[cerebrus]

Thanks for the feedback folks! Anyway, at the service center, they downloaded the sample photos I had on my SD and the technician came back to say it indeed does not show the ISO in Exif. I'll keep pestering them to give me back my cam (hopefully with prob solved). Just called today. Still a work in progress...

BTW, do any of you use GP batts? I got 4 of the 2700mah ones and they seem very fat. Can't get them in and out of the batt slots easily. DId not have the same prob with the alkalines that came in the box nor the panasonic batts I have.

I have a similar prob with one of my Sanyo 2500.