stingray21 said:That's what i've been telling my friends...Canon products dun last and not to buy Canon products.
goering said:In any case Canon has already announced free repairs http://www.canon-asia.com/index.jsp?fuseaction=support&prod_type=image-phenomena_notice
VEFrankl said:It is a fact that the models affected don't last, due to the CCD problem.
What's wrong with making recommendation based on personal experience with
a product? Or show frustrations when the product you bought has failed you?
I'm one of the lucky ones who got the free repair, I was pleasantly surprised
and Canon's gesture restored some faith, and this is what they should have done
from the begining once the manufacturing/design flaw is confirmed.
The problem has been around for quite a while, why did Canon offer the free repair
only recently?? What about the many who paid $140 or more for it?
GMT8 said:friend, no one say cannot kp... can... but please speak without bias.
Just one camera that fella has is giving problem, and he ask every one not to buy anything Canon...
Its just like his toilet paper broke when cleaning his **** and he ask all not to use toilet paper anymore!
And seriously, if the CCD is not made by Canon, Canon will NOT be able to trace the fault. At most, can trace until say "oh.. its the CCD"...
But how are they going to troubleshoot the fault of the CCD? Only the manufacturer can do it what...
Further, even if you bring down and they repair, the new CCD to be replaced in, still from the same manufaturer, and still faulty. Then of course problem will come back what.
All Canon can do when things like these happen is to feed back to the manufacturer.
If the manufacturer dun wanna do anything or drag a long time, Canon also LL right?
What you expect Canon to do? Buy back ALL the faulty camera? Now they give free repair, cannot complain liao loh...
VEFrankl said:Is a user of product supposed set up a poll and collection data before coming to
a conclusion? Of course not, his opinion will be based on his personal experience.
If his words reflects his experience, I don't see anything world with that. The
camera did break down before 2 years due to the CCD, that is a fact.
Whether his friend choose to believe or not, it's up to them.
As for the toilet paper example, I think should just change brand, not give up
totally.
What do you mean Canon also LL , they could have source for alternative supply,
for those familar with the manufacturing setup, all plants have a QC, the jobs of the
QC is to ensure quality of every component they use is fit for purpose. Canon is
a profit orgnaisation, we exchange our money for their product. And the product
is supposed to perform to specifications, the rest of the manufacturer's problems
is no concern of the consumer.
VEFrankl said:It is a fact that the models affected don't last, due to the CCD problem.
What's wrong with making recommendation based on personal experience with
a product? Or show frustrations when the product you bought has failed you?
I'm one of the lucky ones who got the free repair, I was pleasantly surprised
and Canon's gesture restored some faith, and this is what they should have done
from the begining once the manufacturing/design flaw is confirmed.
The problem has been around for quite a while, why did Canon offer the free repair
only recently?? What about the many who paid $140 or more for it?
GMT8 said:well, apparently you have no idea who this guy is and how sore a loser he is.... read his posts...
CCD QC should be done by manufacturer. On Canon's part, when the camera is manufactured, there is no problem, camera will pass QC.
When problem in field arise, customer bring back to Service Center, Service Center feed back to QC. QC will then check with R&D, R&D finds its CCD problem, feed back to manufacturer.
What else can Canon do after that other than wait for reply from manufacturer?
Source for other sources? Do you have any idea what has to be changed just to change to a CCD from another manufacturer? pin out can be different, voltage can be different. You are making it seem like eveyrthing is very simple....
Anyway, the cameras does perform to specification. And if within warranty, its repaired free. Once out of warranty, life span considered over liao right? So Canon has a right to charge what.
But now that they realised there was a problem, they give free repair. Seriously, what more can you ask?
You try asking the government to agree on something that they have done wrongly...
VEFrankl said:The fact the the CCD was subcontracted out to another party doesn't mean Canon
is not responsible, the sales contract is between Canon and the consumer. Besides,
I see nothing wrong with a consumer complaining about an unsatisfactory product,
afterall he was the ultimate person who lost the most. And I think his reaction was
before the free repair was made known to him.
No doubt, Canon's liabilities ends with the one year warranty, but if I tell you a S$600 camera can only last for less than 2 years would you buy it? It's 600 bucks, becasue the consumer paid a premium for specifications and DURABILITY. Clearly, it was a manufacturing fault, what they do to rectify that problem is none of the consumer business. That E18 problem surface more than a year or even two ago , so why wait till now to offer the free repair, it is because most people have already repaired their camera at a charge, so Canon's liabilities is very much limit? Only Canon can answer this question. I appreciate the free repair, afterall I benefited from it. All I'm saying is those who paid for the repair has the right to ask: Why wait till now?
goering said:I hope you are not registering a new nick just for this
Anyway, venting your frustrations is different from spreading unsubstantiated half truths as what stingray21 did. I'd like to remind those who do so that they can be hauled to court for that. Even bloggers have not been spared so please be careful about what you spout online
In any case, batch problems are not confined to just Canon. Fuji for example has recently issued a service advisory http://www.dpreview.com/news/0510/05100403fuji_advisory.asp It is patently unfair to write off a brand just because you have had a bad experience that is known to be a batch problem
It takes time for manufacturer to nail the problem, to coordinate the whole process and sort things out. And now that they have done so, let's move forward.
Another advice I have for those affected especially those who have already paid for repairs is to take a diplomatic approach. Ranting without rhyme nor reason will only make you look bad. I'm sure if you approach Canon nicely some things can be worked out
GMT8 said:You mean what Canon is doing now is not a responsible doing? Then why dun you join them to be the Service Director and tell them what to do?
And seriously, what makes you so sure that they already know the root cause of the CCD defect from the beginning? What proof do you have? Do note that they can sue you for saying that if you have no proof.
And please, he started reacting this way coz he did not get the cheap upgrade to A95. Canon just offered to repair for him instead of upgrade and he is not happy.
yet again, what makes you think that they will know the root of the cause?
I have given the explaination of how far Canon can go to troubleshoot. You mean during the troubleshooting period, they are suppose to give you free repair?
People will only give free upgrades or repairs after firmly knowing what is wrong.
Yes, they may know that its the CCD. But what in the CCD is causing the problem?
Even if they give you free repair then, they will still be using the CCD from the same manufacturer for replacement. Whats the whole point? Replace a faulty CCD, with one that is potentially faulty for free, just as to do another free replcement when it becomes faulty, with yet another potentially faulty one?
That is not productive at all!
You also keep insisting that it is a manufacturing fault. But whose manufacturing fault, Canon, or the CCD manufacturer? When Canon produced the camera, it is in perfect working condition. Thus, QC passed. Same goes to the CCD manufacturer.
QC will not know anything until people start to feed back. And this chain of feed back and nailing the problem is not a short task.
If I am not wrong, Canon will definately compensate those who have paid for the repair. In what way, I dunno, but sure will compensate.
Of course, if you still want to complain, you can by all means dun want the compensation. But since you are taking the compensation, be fair that they have done a good job.
By the way, the defect is on image, not E18.
VEFrankl said:Please re-read my message, and do not put words into my mouth.
"That E18 problem surface more than a year or even two ago , so why wait till now to offer the free repair, it is because most people have already repaired their camera at a charge, so Canon's liabilities is very much limit? Only Canon can answer this question."
With the E18 error, many users experienced black screens too.
Consumer are not interested how manufacturers solve product problems,
all they want is a product that is fit for purpose, and value for what they paid for.
read this and you know the problem dated some time back:
http://www.digitalcamera-hq.com/canon-powershot-a70-reviews.html
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20911
All I can add is Canon really took their time on the above problems.
VEFrankl said:Let's be objective.
The problem surfaced a while back and I think took Canon too long time to find out the
"root of the problem" and you think otherwise. Fair enough.
Like I say before, if you tell me a $600 camera cannot last more than 24 months,
regardless of specs and features. I for one won't buy it. Of cos the models in concern doesn't represent the whole range of Canon products. But I will be glad a friend
told me this beforehand his experience with the A70, won't you?
By the way, I was given the offer (free repair) when I send it in for repair last week, and like I mentioned I was pleasantly surprised and it did restore some faith.
But I'm just defending a consumer right to speak up and make recommendation, based on
true 1st hand experience.
DEADMETAL said:Super heated argument, cool down guys, electronic stuff tends to give way after 1 yr, else y they only give 1 yr warranty? When my IXUS II goes down after 1 yr due to CCD problem(Same cause as A70), I blame it on myself for getting it few bucks cheaper at Simlim than HN where they offer extended warranty.
Well my gf KM cam also goes down after 1 yr so I should condemn the whole of KM? Of course not, it's juz the matter of luck. Canon have batch problem so it's consider lucky for those who have not repair to get free repair, how bout my gf KM which is not in the batch problem? Go around condemning KM again coz Canon give free repair and KM don't? I got more classic examples on more expensive stuff which happen around me, wanna know can juz pm me.
As for those who already repair I guess canon will come out something good for them. So juz cool it, it's murphy's law after all.
