In the states or anywhere else not in asia, the cheongsam is regarded as an exotic symbol of the east, but put into perspective, the billions of people living in the east definitely don't think so. So the portrayal of emancipation here is distinctly anglophile and really isn't impactful at all on an asian forum, esp a singaporean one.
photographic essay
- Thread starter squishyx
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Pinkishy
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Interesting to read about different views people have about this series of photos!! 
My interpretation (from a girl's point of view) :
1#
Trying to break free of what women of my culture are perceived as to others, the ethereal image of chinese women clad in a cheongsam. A common symbol of the chinese culture. Yet my roots enfold me and i am half free.
Slowly stepping out but not only just a little, from the layers and years of history that are slowly unfolding to others, merging and transforming yet never fully exposed nor free of it. Yet.
2#
A open and vulnerable outreach, a lily which is offered upward. (could be sexual too?) An invitation to explore and understand an individual without the boundaries of culture.
3#
(i don't really fancy 3, but if you're going with the theme, i'd interpret it as
A blossoming interest towards other cultures and being more open and understanding our own, but still shy in embracing it openly. The flower indicates the blossoming of interest and getting more open towards new cultures and other ideas, but the woman's head which is turned the other way indicates that we are also still reserved towards our own values and beliefs.
4#
Half reaching out, half pulling back. Taking two steps front, one step back.. inching slowly. Some kind of confused, half willing half scared state.
5#
Turmoil? Mixture of emotions that comes with the hodgepodge of cultures. Trying to accept what others deem as proper and undermining what you always thought was improper but now overthrown by a different set of thoughts & beliefs.
6#
After exploring and leaving behind her own, perhaps she is a little overwhelmed by the unfamiliarity, she seeks refuge in the folds of her own.
7#
While she has tried to reach out to other cultures and embrace them, she is now comfortable and willingly accepts her own, and now invites others to accept it too.
I'm not commenting on the photo technicalities, but rather what your concept led my imagination to :lovegrin: I think that was what you wanted to find out.. what it meant to different people?
My interpretation (from a girl's point of view) :
1#
Trying to break free of what women of my culture are perceived as to others, the ethereal image of chinese women clad in a cheongsam. A common symbol of the chinese culture. Yet my roots enfold me and i am half free.
Slowly stepping out but not only just a little, from the layers and years of history that are slowly unfolding to others, merging and transforming yet never fully exposed nor free of it. Yet.
2#
A open and vulnerable outreach, a lily which is offered upward. (could be sexual too?) An invitation to explore and understand an individual without the boundaries of culture.
3#
(i don't really fancy 3, but if you're going with the theme, i'd interpret it as
A blossoming interest towards other cultures and being more open and understanding our own, but still shy in embracing it openly. The flower indicates the blossoming of interest and getting more open towards new cultures and other ideas, but the woman's head which is turned the other way indicates that we are also still reserved towards our own values and beliefs.
4#
Half reaching out, half pulling back. Taking two steps front, one step back.. inching slowly. Some kind of confused, half willing half scared state.
5#
Turmoil? Mixture of emotions that comes with the hodgepodge of cultures. Trying to accept what others deem as proper and undermining what you always thought was improper but now overthrown by a different set of thoughts & beliefs.
6#
After exploring and leaving behind her own, perhaps she is a little overwhelmed by the unfamiliarity, she seeks refuge in the folds of her own.
7#
While she has tried to reach out to other cultures and embrace them, she is now comfortable and willingly accepts her own, and now invites others to accept it too.
I'm not commenting on the photo technicalities, but rather what your concept led my imagination to :lovegrin: I think that was what you wanted to find out.. what it meant to different people?
Pinkishy said:Interesting to read about different views people have about this series of photos!!
My interpretation (from a girl's point of view) :
1#
Trying to break free of what women of my culture are perceived as to others, the ethereal image of chinese women clad in a cheongsam. A common symbol of the chinese culture. Yet my roots enfold me and i am half free.
Slowly stepping out but not only just a little, from the layers and years of history that are slowly unfolding to others, merging and transforming yet never fully exposed nor free of it. Yet.
2#
A open and vulnerable outreach, a lily which is offered upward. (could be sexual too?) An invitation to explore and understand an individual without the boundaries of culture.
3#
(i don't really fancy 3, but if you're going with the theme, i'd interpret it as
A blossoming interest towards other cultures and being more open and understanding our own, but still shy in embracing it openly. The flower indicates the blossoming of interest and getting more open towards new cultures and other ideas, but the woman's head which is turned the other way indicates that we are also still reserved towards our own values and beliefs.
4#
Half reaching out, half pulling back. Taking two steps front, one step back.. inching slowly. Some kind of confused, half willing half scared state.
5#
Turmoil? Mixture of emotions that comes with the hodgepodge of cultures. Trying to accept what others deem as proper and undermining what you always thought was improper but now overthrown by a different set of thoughts & beliefs.
6#
After exploring and leaving behind her own, perhaps she is a little overwhelmed by the unfamiliarity, she seeks refuge in the folds of her own.
7#
While she has tried to reach out to other cultures and embrace them, she is now comfortable and willingly accepts her own, and now invites others to accept it too.
I'm not commenting on the photo technicalities, but rather what your concept led my imagination to :lovegrin: I think that was what you wanted to find out.. what it meant to different people?
mmmm....i like this interpretation best! :thumbsup:
shojibake said:
correction....the cheongsam is not "an exotic symbol of the east", but specifically a popular form of dress for chinese women in the not-so-distant past. most westerners should be able to tell the difference between the dress of chinese and indian women, for example. if anything, the issue of emancipation is more impactful in asia where women generally do not enjoy similar status in society compared with women in western countries. singapore of course is one of the exceptions, but i'm assuming local forumers are open-minded enough appreciate the wider context of the portrayal used.
eikin said:interesting interpretation.
actually i wasn't pleased with #1, i may be reading too much but i'll be interested to know why the photog choose a loose fitting cheongsam for the woman as a starting point, i wish the photog can explain
the loose cheongsam was due to a few inconveniencing but not so unfortunate
series of events. Firstly, the cheong sam was bought from a store. as you can
imagine, USA doesn't have alot of cheong sam seamstresses or shops. Secondly,
she lost a bit of weight between the purchase of the cheong sam and the shoot.
stupid diets.
Sorry i haven't been around to reply. Thanks for the critiques etc. I've lost my
D70 ruber eye piece and i've been rather distressed. :bsmilie:
Like i said, interpretation has to be from your own imagination. I wish i could
say that one interpretation is right and another is wrong but really, my
own story that backs this body of work is quite definitely TOO long for just
one thread.
zaren said:
Most should be able to tell, perhaps not. The use of this mode of dress is entirely too cliche, with it's immediate association with the east. I'm also pretty sure that most forummers here have been exposed enough to view the use of the cheongsam as a symbol of easterness to be decidely blase. Why not the dresses of the malay community? Or the au naturaleness of tribal folk in javanese folk tribes? As i said it's not as impactful as it can be, and that's my honest singaporean reaction to a request for comments.
shojibake said:
i think it boils down to how different ppl view the images.... u can choose to interpret it a cliched symbol of easternness....while i can choose to interpret it as the beauty and behaviour of chinese women (specifically) dictated by their dress and their footwear (or the lack thereof). and that's my honest singaporean reaction to this photographic essay. thats the interesting part of forums....we all see the same thing in different ways.
thanks for the engaging discussion.
the choice to go with the cheong sam was because my model is chinese,
there is a lack of other choices and the other choices, when chosen, are
easily mistaken for other things.
with the new age culture tearing through the west, more and more people
adorn clothes that look very aboriginal in nature with often some asian
infulences or american-indian influences (just my perspective - not a
fashion designed so i wouldn't know better).
Selecting something javanese would have conflicted the colour of her skin
and would've ended up looking like some sort of local runway fashion or
skanky clothing.
employing a kimono (japanese) would've been appropriate since the similarity
in some look and cultural relevance but there was simply no availability of
such a wardrobe.
Under the circumstances, what you see is just about all i had to work with.
the choice to go with the cheong sam was because my model is chinese,
there is a lack of other choices and the other choices, when chosen, are
easily mistaken for other things.
with the new age culture tearing through the west, more and more people
adorn clothes that look very aboriginal in nature with often some asian
infulences or american-indian influences (just my perspective - not a
fashion designed so i wouldn't know better).
Selecting something javanese would have conflicted the colour of her skin
and would've ended up looking like some sort of local runway fashion or
skanky clothing.
employing a kimono (japanese) would've been appropriate since the similarity
in some look and cultural relevance but there was simply no availability of
such a wardrobe.
Under the circumstances, what you see is just about all i had to work with.
squishyx said:
I think a cheongsam is too superficial. to use a kimono is also very superficial, and irrelevant even. You are not aware of the implications and history behind a kimono and its relevance to its local culture to understand what it says when using a dress like that.
I don't know what time period you are trying to comment on but the local cultural uniform of the chinese woman nowadays seems to be more of a pair of jeans and spaghetti strap top
mattlock said:
How can you assume that i do not know the history and cultural implications
of a kimono? Maybe you are speaking to generalizations but either way, you
are making unfair assumptions.
Assuming that you are a logical,rational individual, I will assume that at this
point you have made up your mind that only you are seemingly the only
one educated in asian cultures - the rest of us biggots are drowning in our
own ignorance.
For your information, trying to speak of a culture through spaghetti strap
tops and jean bottoms is ridiculous. If this is the level of culture you
speculate in our society today, either our integrity is dead or maybe you
assume that the intelligence of people in this forum is far below yours.
I think i'm done reading your own assumptions and beliefs. thanks for the input.
squishyx said:
I don't know enough about asian culture, but I know enough to understand that the cheongsam and the kimono are not interchangable simply based on the model being chinese or japanese.
and it is not ridiculous to speak of a culture through spaghetti strap tops and jean bottoms. since you've been to america you can tell me how few chinese people even consider the cheongsam as symbolic of chinese culture anymore. If even depends on which area of America you're from. a high percentage of the chinese in New York are from Hong Kong. Hong Kong itself has had a complex history with China due to Hong Kong's British rule. Mainland chinese people who immigrated to America have different histories. How about 2nd or 3rd generation chinese who don't speak chinese anymore, let alone see the cheongsam as anything more than a relic? Maybe your idea of culture is romantic when the reality of modern culture is harsh and frighteningly different.
I'm sorry if what I've written sounds harsh but it's not a personal attack on your character, it's more the fact that since you make it a point to try to put across a serious concept in your work then I will try to point out certain things which I feel don't do justice to your concept.
You as an artist have a responsibility, when dealing with serious issues, to hold yourself to an extreme level instead of accepting compromises and then reasoning them out with a "lack of choices"
Don't throw the blame back on my character, if my words don't make any sense then you can just ignore them instead of attacking my character.
Let me share my honest opinion.
I was never much for poetry - in fact I seldom truly comprehended much of the usual works taught in literature classes such as those by Wordsworth, Shakespeare etc. Often I just had to take whatever the tutor said at face value, for I really didn't see nor feel the emotion or connotations the poems/works had unlying. It was only till I came across war poetry that my senses were ignited. I could feel myself in the trenches below endless machinegun fire, tears and sweat mingled, praying I would not suffer the same tragic fate as a fallen comrade-in-arms lying face down in the mud. For that, I thank Owen, Sassoon, Brooke and whoever else wrote those marvellous pieces of art. Art quite unlike the flowery concoctions by Wordsworth, Shakespeare and Co., but still art.
Your images don't work for me, although I can't exactly say why. Perhaps I don't really identify with the theme - I haven't been all that immersed in merging cultures and societal woes. But then again, neither was I a WWII expert when I started reading war poetry. The images didn't portray the intensity and exasperation faced, I guess. Due to perhaps the lack of tenseness of the model and the soft, flowing outlook of the photo-essay; it made it appear that the transition from a conversative bottled-up culture to present was a smooth flowing one with little or no hiccups.
This is just my opinion, as everyone else would have their own. But nonetheless I think it's a good try - I might not have done any better myself. Brave of you to have put something like that up.
I was never much for poetry - in fact I seldom truly comprehended much of the usual works taught in literature classes such as those by Wordsworth, Shakespeare etc. Often I just had to take whatever the tutor said at face value, for I really didn't see nor feel the emotion or connotations the poems/works had unlying. It was only till I came across war poetry that my senses were ignited. I could feel myself in the trenches below endless machinegun fire, tears and sweat mingled, praying I would not suffer the same tragic fate as a fallen comrade-in-arms lying face down in the mud. For that, I thank Owen, Sassoon, Brooke and whoever else wrote those marvellous pieces of art. Art quite unlike the flowery concoctions by Wordsworth, Shakespeare and Co., but still art.
Your images don't work for me, although I can't exactly say why. Perhaps I don't really identify with the theme - I haven't been all that immersed in merging cultures and societal woes. But then again, neither was I a WWII expert when I started reading war poetry. The images didn't portray the intensity and exasperation faced, I guess. Due to perhaps the lack of tenseness of the model and the soft, flowing outlook of the photo-essay; it made it appear that the transition from a conversative bottled-up culture to present was a smooth flowing one with little or no hiccups.
This is just my opinion, as everyone else would have their own. But nonetheless I think it's a good try - I might not have done any better myself. Brave of you to have put something like that up.
squishyx said:
I had on occasions engaged with mattlock on various issues. Sometimes we not agree, and very much so.
But never passing remarks on the person's character except in jest. What we debate on are concepts, opinions, and ideas. We see how the other person thinks, and evaluate his opinion. At the end, the images are yours, and you decide what to do with them. Debate have a tendency to "defend", but if one adopt a defensive attitude, and comes out with words like these, you will soon be left alone.
Whether you are a arts/photography student in a US university is irrelevant. There are differences in perceptions between individuals either cross-nations, or within US itself. Your teachers or whoever may give you awards, but I assure you that there will be US photographers who will have very different opinions on these images.
mattlock said:
point taken. Didn't mean to be overly defensive. :embrass: But - how else
would you portray chinese culture ?
And i didn't mean to say that chinese and kimonos are interchangable one
basic reason is that the proper cheong sam is form hugging to reveal the
most lines of a womans body. On the other hand, a traditional kimono has
so much padding and excess cloth to maintain hte purity of the wearer and
the distance between her and the world. almost a complete opposite. One is
liberal and the other conservative. I meant that i could have used a kimono
because Japanese have the same tendencies when it comes to blooming in
culture. Yes the cultures are changing but i'd rather speak to a generalization
of a time that cultures were more concrete than a time when they are in flux.
Student said:
Thanks for the encouragement but PLEASE stop harping about my award(s).
If it were a solo gallery exhibition in the Stieglitz gllery then it's worth
harping about. I've since thrown away the useless certificates and decided
that those are useless.
I understand that i cannot be overly defensive of my work in a public forum
but sometimes i think mattlock and whoever need to read what they wrote
and consider the implications of their own writing. Or are we allowed to just
shoot off and leave readers to their own devices with the assumptions?
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