Panasonic GH3 Vs Sony VG30

[Bamboopictures]

Ryan, sounds like you are looking for a stills camera. May want to consider more established brands with bigger ecosystem. If you're shooting video, the megapixel count and maximum shutter speed don't matter. HD video is only 2K resolution and shot at 1/50s shutter.

 

[RyanKhoo]

Ryan, sounds like you are looking for a stills camera. May want to consider more established brands with bigger ecosystem. If you're shooting video, the megapixel count and maximum shutter speed don't matter. HD video is only 2K resolution and shot at 1/50s shutter.

Yes bamboo,

I am looking to buy one camera more for stills because for video I have already bought the Sony VG30.

But the think is the Panasonic salesman told me that their GH3 can do video at 72 Mbps which my VG30 can only do at 28Mbps. Will this makes a difference to the video ?

As for pics, I also thought that m4/3 sounds good bcos the lens are lighter.

On the other hand, I thought the Sony A77 is good because I can use the lens on my VG30 and also the A77 has better specs than GH3 (though I do not know how critical the extra numbers in A77 meant).

Your opinion is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Bamboopictures]

72Mbps means there is less compression. You may see some improvements in certain challenging video subjects such as water, fast motion etc. For stills, micro4/3 archilles heel is the lack of good strobelights from Lumix/Olympus. Since TTL metering is only available in flash built by these two brands, you may be severely handicapped. Also ISO noise starts to get noticeable at 800, not great compared to APS-C or full frame sensors. You should go for Nikon or Canon DSLRs if you are primarily shooting stills. Nikon and Canon have a good range of professional strobes not available to M4/3. Check out the reviews in the photography forum for recommendation.
BTW, the VG30 stills are as good as the NEX6!

 

[RyanKhoo]

Thanks Bamboo,

What you think about what's been said by this Professional ?

Lumix 35-100mm lens on a GH3 signals end of Days for DSLR. - YouTube

 

[kandinsky]

Since TTL metering is only available in flash built by these two brands...

Yeah, the range is pretty small compared to Canikon, but there's Metz They've m43 compatible speedlights that support TTL metering too.
System flash units: Metz

------

The A77 might be cheaper because they're clearing stock now. Keep in mind it launched locally with a S$1799 RRP around Sept/Oct 2011. It's a 2-year old model, and its successor is supposedly due late 2013. Perhaps if you wait for the launch of the successor, you can get it for even cheaper (like what happened with the GH2 just before/after the GH3 release), assuming stock levels are still healthy. Have no experience with alphas at all.

 

[RyanKhoo]

The A77 might be cheaper because they're clearing stock now. Keep in mind it launched locally with a S$1799 RRP around Sept/Oct 2011. It's a 2-year old model, and its successor is supposedly due late 2013.

Good point.

Thanks, kandinsky.

I am thinking, if I cannot wait, I might as well buy the GH3 since it is relatively new now. What you think ?

Comparitively, do you think the GH3 is overprice (your personal opinion) ?

Thanks

 

[Bamboopictures]

Thanks Bamboo,

What you think about what's been said by this Professional ?

Lumix 35-100mm lens on a GH3 signals end of Days for DSLR. - YouTube

Depends on the type of jobs and publications they shoot for. I don't think there's been a Natgeo story shot on Lumix. But I could be wrong.
But it doesn't even take a very discerning eye to tell the difference between the noise in M4/3 still vs APS-C, FF. ISO800 is the probably the max you want to go with M4/3.

 

[Bamboopictures]

Yeah, the range is pretty small compared to Canikon, but there's Metz They've m43 compatible speedlights that support TTL metering too.
System flash units: Metz
l.

Thanks for the update. For the longest time, Metz did not support M4/3 TTL

 

[kandinsky]

As a consumer I certainly would have loved to pay less. I can only say it wasn't overpriced for *me*. I got it largely for its video capabilities. If I didn't care about video I might have gone with the OMD EM5 if I wanted to get into m43 for stills.

Anyway, I figured more video shoots were in my future, and I was looking at this vs a D600 — which was alright for video, far better for stills, and cost at least $1000 more (with complimentary sensor dust at that time ;p). So for me, the GH3 was looking very favourable with better features for video, for $1000 less. It might very well be overpriced for someone else. Depending on what they are looking for in a camera, they might even be disappointed. I'm not a GH3 salesman, so it's very hard to give a clear endorsement.

 

[RyanKhoo]

Sorry, I have 2 questions:

Question 1 (on Sony VG30):
Owners of VG30, can help me on the question of ISO ?

I understand most cameras have ISO settings, it comes in numbers like 1600, 2400, 3200

But how come the setting in VG30 comes in dB ? The numbers range from 0 to 30. How come it is not in numbers like ISO ? How do I set the dB to beyond 30 ?


Question 2 (On GH3):
a) GH3 dont have peaking ? Then how do we know what is on focus ?

b) is the moire problem solved in the current batch of GH3 ?

Thanks

 

[kandinsky]

But how come the setting in VG30 comes in dB ? The numbers range from 0 to 30. How come it is not in numbers like ISO ? How do I set the dB to beyond 30 ?

I've also pondered this same question. Looks like it's due to legacy reasons:

ISO in digital cameras was intended only to provide some continuity from film cameras. It’s really just the amount of gain applied to the output of the sensor that adjusts the sensitivity.

- See more at: http://www.videouniversity.com/arti...ce-between-gain-and-iso/#sthash.fllimm0J.dpuf

How Does Gain Relate to ISO?
When you increase the ISO in your digital camera, you are simply increasing the gain. In the digital world, ISO is merely a way of renaming gain measurements from decibels (dB) to terminology more familiar to film users. In gain, each +6dB is the equivalent to a doubling of the electrical signal, or the increase of one stop of light. In ISO, every third step—or doubling of the previous ISO—represents a doubling of the signal gain, or an increase in one stop. So a change from 100 ISO to 200 ISO is the same, virtually, as adding +6dB of gain to the image. You have amplified the signal by a factor of two; or increased your exposure by one stop. Change that to 400 ISO and you’ve now added +12dB of gain and two stops; 800 gets you up to +18dB and three stops, and so forth.

Most digital cameras that measure their amplification in dB of gain won’t allow you to amplify the image beyond +18 or +21dB, which is typically very noisy. However, many newer cameras—DSLRs including the Canon EOS 5D Mk III and EOS 1D X, and Nikon D4 and D800—continue to push the gain well beyond this three- to four-stop range, from a base of 100 (or 200) ISO to as far as 204800 ISO, which represents an increase of eight stops, or the equivalent of +48dB of gain!

DV101: ISO, EI, ASA and You: Understanding and Interpreting ISO Ratings | www.creativeplanetnetwork.com

If you have a light meter you can try to figure out the VG30's db to ISO equivalents (process is described at the end of the linked article).

You can't go beyond. If the max is 30 then that is it.

Two opinions I found about the VG20:

My conclusion is VG20 30db is equivalent to 3200 ISO.

https://vimeo.com/32230723

Q:What is the basic ISO rating of the VG 20 at 0 db of gain?

A: I estimate between 100 and 200 ASA

https://vimeo.com/groups/nexvg10/forum/topic:259328

 

[RyanKhoo]

Thanks kandinsky for the insight of measuring Gain in dB.

What about Question 2 on the GH3 ? Any ideas ?

Thanks & cheers

 

[kandinsky]

Question 2 (On GH3):
a) GH3 dont have peaking ? Then how do we know what is on focus ?

b) is the moire problem solved in the current batch of GH3 ?

Thanks

a) No it doesn't :cry: I use a LCD loupe that magnifies the LCD, this helps in acquiring focus. The GH3's Manual Focus Assist also helps, but only before you hit record, as it isn't active while recording video.
Another option is to use an external viewfinder like the Overview | SmallHD.

The manual focus assist is a very nice feature on the GH3. Turn the focus ring and the image is magnified to your choice of 4x, 5x or 10x for easy focusing.

Panasonic LUMIX DMC-GH3 DSLR Review | Videomaker.com

b) Sorry, no idea. Has not been an issue for me. Not to say this means it doesn't exist, maybe just not for the stuff I've been shooting.
You gotta google this yourself and check out opinions on other forums.

 

[RyanKhoo]

a) No it doesn't :cry: I use a LCD loupe that magnifies the LCD, this helps in acquiring focus. The GH3's Manual Focus Assist also helps, but only before you hit record, as it isn't active while recording video.
Another option is to use an external viewfinder like the Overview | SmallHD.

Thanks kandinsky but I am not used to viewfinder leh bcos I am very specs.

As for this DP6 link, isn't just another LCD screen but at a higher resolution of 1280 x 780. The resolution of the GH3's LCD panel is less than that meh ?

But this DP6 LCD doesn't look much bigger than the ones that comes with GH3, right ?

I think I am having problem focussing even on my VG30 when it has peaking (I just dunno if it is 100% focus or only 90% focus. Sometimes it looks like very good on the LCD but when I bring into Final Cut, jialat it looks a but blury & can see it is not 100% focus)


[/quote]
b) Sorry, no idea. Has not been an issue for me. Not to say this means it doesn't exist, maybe just not for the stuff I've been shooting.
You gotta google this yourself and check out opinions on other forums.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the video link. Thanks

 

[kandinsky]

Thanks kandinsky but I am not used to viewfinder leh bcos I am very specs.

As for this DP6 link, isn't just another LCD screen but at a higher resolution of 1280 x 780. The resolution of the GH3's LCD panel is less than that meh ?

But this DP6 LCD doesn't look much bigger than the ones that comes with GH3, right ?

I think I am having problem focussing even on my VG30 when it has peaking (I just dunno if it is 100% focus or only 90% focus. Sometimes it looks like very good on the LCD but when I bring into Final Cut, jialat it looks a but blury & can see it is not 100% focus)

I see... that's too bad, a loupe can really help.

The DP6 has higher resolution (1280 x800 vs 640 x 480), and a larger screen (5.6" vs 3"). The idea is that on a larger field monitor, you can see more detail easily, vs on a smaller screen. The downside is portability/weight. To see the difference, just try connecting your camera to your HD monitor/tv and shoot some tests at home. Some field monitors come with additional features that aid focus/exposure (peaking/false colour/zebras, etc).

IMO, that's one of the limitations of a small LCD viewfinders – unless you have flawless eyesight and technique (or figured out a workaround that works for you), there's room for error because there's stuff you may not be able to see.

 

[RyanKhoo]

The GH3's Manual Focus Assist also helps, but only before you hit record, as it isn't active while recording video.

You mean this
Panasonic GH1 Manual Focus Assist Demo - YouTube

Cannot find a youtube for GH3's Manual Focus Assist.

Thanks

 

[RyanKhoo]

I see... that's too bad, a loupe can really help.

U mean the EVF has an inbuilt magnifying glass ?

The DP6 has higher resolution (1280 x800 vs 640 x 480), and a larger screen (5.6" vs 3"). The idea is that on a larger field monitor, you can see more detail easily, vs on a smaller screen. The downside is portability/weight.

Thanks, is it common to use this ? Looks like more gadgets to bring leh. Also not cheap lah

 

[kandinsky]

You mean this
Panasonic GH1 Manual Focus Assist Demo - YouTube

Cannot find a youtube for GH3's Manual Focus Assist.

Thanks

See pg 148 - 150 of the manual: http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/DMCGH3_ADV.PDF

U mean the EVF has an inbuilt magnifying glass ?

Before you get confused, an LCD viewfinder or (loupe) is a completely different thing from an EVF.

An LCD viewfinder or loupe is usually made up of a hood + magnifying optics (around x3) + eyecup. Yeah, basically it acts like a magnifying glass. There's only one way you can position/mount it — over the built in LCD on your camera. More affordable because it doesn't have electronics.

Examples:
HoodLoupe 3.0 (PATENT US 7,386,229 B2 and 7,034,877)-Hoodman Corporation
Kinotehnik - LCDVF Overview
VF-4 Universal LCD View Finder by Carry Speed | Carry Speed Store
::::Welcome to VARAVON ::::
DSLR Viewfinder, DSLR EyePiece, Optical Viewfinder - Zacuto Z-Finder

The E in EVF stands for Electronic. The GH3 has an EVF. Video cameras come with built-in EVFs too. But in the context of an add-on EVF, it's basically a mini external LCD monitor (maybe higher res than the built-in, more features, etc), with the hood + optics + eyecup. This can be mounted anywhere you want as it's a monitor on it's own.

Examples:
Overview | SmallHD
Kinotehnik - LCDVFE: Overview
Z-Finder EVF (Electronic Viewfinder)

Thanks, is it common to use this ?

Not uncommon, for professionals at least. Those who shoot MF, need a bunch of wide open shots, have the time & space to set up shots, will probably use one unless they're on a really tight budget, or have found a way to do without. I've seen some wedding shooters who can MF freehand and nail the focus straight off the back of the camera LCD. Maybe combination of good eyesight and loads of experience.

Well, there are some cheaper china brands like Liliput, Wondlan, but the cheapest models will be very basic (non-HD, no additional features).

 

[hamanoshun]

U mean the EVF has an inbuilt magnifying glass ?

Thanks, is it common to use this ? Looks like more gadgets to bring leh. Also not cheap lah

That is why you must weigh the cost of producing your projects. Jobs in Singapore don't pay much as they do overseas.

Clients sometimes don't really know what is required to get the job done. Simple things like a LCDVF or a monitor may not be necessary for the project but are necessary to project the professionalism that clients are looking for.

 

[Deunamist]

That is why you must weigh the cost of producing your projects. Jobs in Singapore don't pay much as they do overseas.

Clients sometimes don't really know what is required to get the job done. Simple things like a LCDVF or a monitor may not be necessary for the project but are necessary to project the professionalism that clients are looking for.

Yeap.. this is true. Its all about gaining the customers' confidence and creating value, especially if you are not using a regular video camera. If you turn up at a shoot with just a DSLR and tripod, well, let's just say it's easy for the client to acquire such tools nowadays anyway, and thus might question your 'dedication' or 'professionalism'.

btw back on topic, for some reason I feel that the GH2/GH3s are not as highly regarded here as serious tools for video production than it is overseas.