OM-5

[Pitachu]

The OM-5 is rumored to be released soon and it has the improved sensor of the OM-1.

Personally, I felt US$1599 is quite steep for a mid-range camera unless it has some wow features to woo me.
If not, let's hope that the final retail price is about $1099 like the Canon R10 with 24mp.

(FT5) The new OM-5 will be priced in the $1599 range (still not final) – 43 Rumors

www.43rumors.com

 

[JW73]

This pricing USD1599, unless it is significantly better than EM1iii (current price US$1499) or EM1X it‘s hard to justify the price.

 

[ricohflex]

Olympus Camera Division made same mistake as Kodak. Both died gruesome business deaths.

Kodak insisted it was in the FILM business. Instead of the story telling/recording of memories business.
Kodak threw away its advantage inventing digital camera.

Olympus Camera Division insisted it was in the M43 sensor based business. Instead of the {make cameras that consumers want to buy} business.
Olympus Camera Division threw away its early mover advantage in the digital mirrorless autofocus ILC business.

Now JIP/OMDS has a new problem.
Would you buy a camera with the words OM SYSTEM on the top of camera body? What about millions of other camera buyers?
This unknown/new brand with near zero track record hopes to attract buyers at unrealistic price point.

The well known camera brand names have ONE word e.g. Leica, Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. emblazoned on their products.

Who is the idiot who advised the new company JIP/OMDS to use OM SYSTEM as the new brand name?

 

[Pitachu]

OMDS is no longer an unknown brand. Even my friend who dont own cameras have read about them and come across some ads with them and have curiously ask me "isn't that Olympus?"

This is thread is on the OM5, not about JIP/OMDS or Olympus. If you want to discuss on that, pls start your own thread. Don't try to Hijack my thread.

This thread is intended to talk about the soon to be release OM5, its features and price point. There is no need to repeat what you have repeated on all other threads about Olympus, JIP/OMDS.

QUOTE="ricohflex, post: 9756357, member: 17944"]
Olympus Camera Division made same mistake as Kodak. Both died gruesome business deaths.

Kodak insisted it was in the FILM business. Instead of the story telling/recording of memories business.
Kodak threw away its advantage inventing digital camera.

Olympus Camera Division insisted it was in the M43 sensor based business. Instead of the {make cameras that consumers want to buy} business.
Olympus Camera Division threw away its early mover advantage in the digital mirrorless autofocus ILC business.

Now JIP/OMDS has a new problem.
Would you buy a camera with the words OM SYSTEM on the top of camera body? What about millions of other camera buyers?
This unknown/new brand with near zero track record hopes to attract buyers at unrealistic price point.

The well known camera brand names have ONE word e.g. Leica, Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. emblazoned on their products.

Who is the idiot who advised the new company JIP/OMDS to use OM SYSTEM as the new brand name?
[/QUOTE]

 

[ricohflex]

This YouTube reviewer mentions OM-5.
He asks in the video title the following:
OM-5 Dead On Arrival or a Killer Camera?

The correct answer is both.
At the price of USD$1599 it is DOA and is also a Killer Camera (in the sense that it kills the company).
OM-5 will fail badly and kill the OMDS chances of survival.

Competitors can offer better. Sony FX30 is USD$1799, Canon R7 is USD$1499, Fuji XT-4 is USD$1699.
Those with sunken costs and already deeply invested in M43 equipment may buy OM-5. But they are a fading minority.

 

[Bluesubm6]

I have sunken costs in Olympus - besides the expensive Pro lenses, I own the EM1X, EM1 mk 2, EM1 mk 1, two EM 5 mk 1 (long story), one EP5 and the Pen F.

Will I buy the OM-1? Probably never, even if second hand and attractively priced. OM-5 or whatever variant, probably never ever. Will I buy an EM1X mk 2? If it has double the CPU performance, yes. You could say that I am spoilt on the EM1X.

I fritter away some money dabbling on Fujifilm XT (APSC) and Canon R (full frame) but I keep going back to the EM1X, with the 300mm f/4 Pro and the 40-150mm f/2.8 Pro, and two (yes two) MC20 teleconverters, permanently attached to the lenses.

It is my personal preference, but I love the performance, ergonomics, and muscle memory the EM1X evokes, for birding and for rumbling in the wild. The two things that keep me firmly in the m43 camp are the two Pro lenses mentioned above.

I am more likely to buy a second hand EM1X if there is no EM1X mk 2 on the horizon. And yes, I would love a weather-sealed Pen F.

 

[Pitachu]

OMDS may be using the same marketing ploy as the EM5-mk 3.
I was at the EM5 Mk3 launch and when they announce a suddenly much discounted promotional price with a Free High Speed SD card and 2 extra batteries, more than 180 units were sold during a 3 hour launch.

The Sony FX30 is a video-centric camera worth looking at if one day I decide to explore videos as this has all long been Olympus weak area,
but for photos, I would not choose it over the OM5. I don't think they are direct competitors.

OM5 biggest competitor is the EM5 Mk3.
Can it persuade current owners to upgrade? Not if the price is too high and there are too little benefits.
I am perfectly happy with my EM5 Mk3.

Can it persuade new users to choose the OM5 over the EM5 mk 3 selling for only US$999 as mentioned in the video?

People who look at M43 are already persuaded because of the smaller and lighter lenses.
Camera body is actually not very impt if you ask me.

This YouTube reviewer mentions OM-5.
He asks in the video title the following:
OM-5 Dead On Arrival or a Killer Camera?

The correct answer is both.
At the price of USD$1599 it is DOA and is also a Killer Camera (in the sense that it kills the company).
OM-5 will fail badly and kill the OMDS chances of survival.

Competitors can offer better. Sony FX30 is USD$1799, Canon R7 is USD$1499, Fuji XT-4 is USD$1699.
Those with sunken costs and already deeply invested in M43 equipment may buy OM-5. But they are a fading minority.

 

[ricohflex]

At OM-5 price of USD$1599. How to compete against competitors, most of which have much bigger sensors?
Sharp has abandoned the proposed 8K M43 camera. Wise of Sharp. No sense in throwing good money after bad money.
This proves that the M43 format is fading away or dying a slow death. At least Sharp has awakened from their dream.

 

[one eye jack]

This YouTube reviewer mentions OM-5.
He asks in the video title the following:
OM-5 Dead On Arrival or a Killer Camera?

The correct answer is both.
At the price of USD$1599 it is DOA and is also a Killer Camera (in the sense that it kills the company).
OM-5 will fail badly and kill the OMDS chances of survival.

Competitors can offer better. Sony FX30 is USD$1799, Canon R7 is USD$1499, Fuji XT-4 is USD$1699.
Those with sunken costs and already deeply invested in M43 equipment may buy OM-5. But they are a fading minority.

Ricohflex, to be credible yourself as a contributor you should listen carefully to what this Youtuber is saying.
1. His source is 4/3 rumours.
2. He quoted source that price have been sent to retailers but "source" said price is not finalised.
3. Youtuber is referencing Em5 MK3 as start of his guesstimation assuming om5 is successor to em5 mk3.
4. He compares leaked om5 specs. to em5 mk3 as not exciting and therefore not worth the asking price of usd$ 1599. He expected more for that price.
5. Om5 said to be officially announced at end October ( previously September ).
6. No video specs. or sensor details.
7. Youtuber is extrapolating from his experience and past em5 mk3. To be honest , anyone can crystal ball and give predictions.That's the game of rumours, pandering to people who like to have their next toy.

8. I read from another rumour purportedly from interview from "heads" of Panasonic that new camera is not a follow up to em5 mk3 and that some camera models may be discontinued citing em5 or penF series but may continued with EPL and om10 series for the beginners transitioning from their smartphone. Nothing is confirmed.

9. OMDS has kept their cards close to their chest. Perhaps at end October they want to surprise and wow the camera consumers leading to the Christmas / new year 2023 where the consumer is likely to spend despite the Economic downturn. Not exactly a good time but knowing marketing experience, people expect new product or they lose consumer interest and buy the competitors' product.
10. For consumer product there is no right or wrong time to launch as other bigger competitors have new cameras in their pipeline so it's a matter of to do not not , R&D money already spent so must recover investment to continue to bring out new products.

Like Youtuber, there you have it 10 tips to analyse and discern the veracity of any rumour of report. Hope this helps.

 

[Pitachu]

Ha Ha trying to hijack my thread with another irrelevant topic!
This thread is about OM-5, not about whether M43 is viable or not.
There is another thread on the future of M43. You can discuss it there.

At OM-5 price of USD$1599. How to compete against competitors, most of which have much bigger sensors?
Sharp has abandoned the proposed 8K M43 camera. Wise of Sharp. No sense in throwing good money after bad money.
This proves that the M43 format is fading away or dying a slow death. At least Sharp has awakened from their dream.

 

[Octarine]

@ricohflex You have made your point clear, repeatedly and across several threads. Take a break and relax.

 

[ricohflex]

OK.
OMDS is relying on mirrorless digital OM-1 and OM-5 to succeed.
So as to bring the company back from the brink. Monitor how they perform in terms of market share.
For a camera to succeed it must somehow attract the masses and consumers as something they want which is Good, Value for Money and Affordable.
In the history of film cameras, examples of such are for example Olympus OM-1, Canon AE-1, Asahi Pentax Spotmatic, Nikon FM2, Yashica Electro 35.
It is not the top flagship models that will earn the big bucks. Those are expensive and appeal to a small high end market.

It is the simple and affordable camera that sells in HUGE quantities that will become the Cash Cow for the company.

 

[JW73]

Hope OM-5 will be positioned as a mini-OM-1 instead of travel camera. Who is using camera nowadays for leisure travel? Mobile phone nowadays does it well.

 

[ricohflex]

Coincidentally Da Jiang Innovations (DJI) has in 2020 rebranded their Osmo mobile phone gimbals to "OM".
In 2022 there is a DJI OM5 gimbal on the market. AKA smartphone stabilizer.

It is a bit amorphous. With 2 products named quite similarly.
OMDS camera product OM-5 and DJI gimbal product OM5.
On top of the old OM-D E-M5.

If OM-5 is the first camera to bear the "OM System" brand name; instead of "Olympus".
It may have a brand recognition/acceptance problem.
Brand visibility and loyalty takes years/decades to build.

New consumers who were not previously Olympus fans may reject the unheard of "OM System" brand.
Or maybe confuse it with DJI line of OM products.

 

[one eye jack]

Coincidentally Da Jiang Innovations (DJI) has in 2020 rebranded their Osmo mobile phone gimbals to "OM".
In 2022 there is a DJI OM5 gimbal on the market. AKA smartphone stabilizer.

It is a bit amorphous. With 2 products named quite similarly.
OMDS camera product OM-5 and DJI gimbal product OM5.
On top of the old OM-D E-M5.

If OM-5 is the first camera to bear the "OM System" brand name; instead of "Olympus".
It may have a brand recognition/acceptance problem.
Brand visibility and loyalty takes years/decades to build.

New consumers who were not previously Olympus fans may reject the unheard of "OM System" brand.
Or maybe confuse it with DJI line of OM products.

Thank you for pointing this out ( naming convention ). Now this "om 5" is just a code name for now. Even if OMDS choose to use it , I'm sure even for people who have not known the history of Olympus would only look at the specs. or features that are on this "om5". DJI is a gimbal and OMDS is a camera.

Who knows OMDS may use an entirely non related product name if they take into consideration of dji's similar name. Cheekily I would suggest to not have any reminder of Olympus and just name it JIP5, ( just innovate photo )...haha.

 

[Pitachu]

That used to be the business model until 5 years ago until when mobile phone picture quality become very acceptable to the mass market.
Camera manufacturers including Canon, Nikon and Sony are no longer sure how much of the lower tier cameras are they going to sell.
Although the qty sold for their top end models are nothing great in comparison to their lower end models during the glorious years,
camera manufacturers are now focusing on their top end models.

I don't think OMDS may introduce a OM-10. OM-5 is probably the lowest tier they would go to test the market response for photographers with lower budget or for those who need to carry a 2nd camera body. And this is across all brands. You can see the new models released are generally higher end models.

OK.
OMDS is relying on mirrorless digital OM-1 and OM-5 to succeed.
So as to bring the company back from the brink. Monitor how they perform in terms of market share.
For a camera to succeed it must somehow attract the masses and consumers as something they want which is Good, Value for Money and Affordable.
In the history of film cameras, examples of such are for example Olympus OM-1, Canon AE-1, Asahi Pentax Spotmatic, Nikon FM2, Yashica Electro 35.
It is not the top flagship models that will earn the big bucks. Those are expensive and appeal to a small high end market.

It is the simple and affordable camera that sells in HUGE quantities that will become the Cash Cow for the company.

 

[one eye jack]

That used to be the business model until 5 years ago until when mobile phone picture quality become very acceptable to the mass market.
Camera manufacturers including Canon, Nikon and Sony are no longer sure how much of the lower tier cameras are they going to sell.
Although the qty sold for their top end models are nothing great in comparison to their lower end models during the glorious years,
camera manufacturers are now focusing on their top end models.

I don't think OMDS may introduce a OM-10. OM-5 is probably the lowest tier they would go to test the market response for photographers with lower budget or for those who need to carry a 2nd camera body. And this is across all brands. You can see the new models released are generally higher end models.

Interesting that you brought up the business model idea. It's educational to highlight the 80/20 rule or Pareto principle. It's not a theory or fact but an observation that 80% of output is related to 20% input.

What Is the 80/20 Rule? How the Pareto Principle Will Supercharge Your Productivity

Here, we’ll explore how to use the Pareto Principle to supercharge your productivity, and become more successful in less time, using less effort.

blog.hubspot.com

It goes to show camera companies concentrate on 20% of it's target customers to reap 80% of their profit, in this case , their highend customers since the mass market has gone to smartphones. That is not necessary it actually listens to what their customers want but what they think people should want which brings to what Canon believes is their strategy of segmenting their product lines to reap the most profit. Canon has gained the trust of sport/ action, wildlife, and most notably wedding, portrait and commercial photography. Whether in terms of autofocus technology or colour science.

Increasingly Sony has slowly learned their lessons to improve what many think is their weakness in colour science. Remember canon pleasing colours does not mean accurate colour so if canon is complacent it may find itself overtaken in market share. Already Sony a7 iv is barking up canon's tree.

Before Sony improved on colour science.

On a side note Olympus colour science is considered neutral or accurate but nothing exciting..haha.

 

[ricohflex]

More of the rubbish hot air empty talk.
OM-5 to be announced in July

OM-5 claimed to be announced.
See this video in June 2022

Then in Aug 2022, they claimed it will be announced in September 2022.
Claim to announce in September

On 14 Oct 2022
Got a leak.

Now is 19 Oct 2022.
So far nothing real or tangible.

This thing is branded OM System?
Useful to do it this way because the valuable [ OLYMPUS ] brand name is unhurt, in the event of any commercial failure of the new OM System products.

 

[one eye jack]

OMDS 27 October announcement but more of a teaser. Wait la , tickle you a bit..hehe. My guess it's a mini om1 and I don't think they will put a 41mp sensor, that's reserved for another flagship. Interesting to note is both 20 and 41 Mp sensors in Sony's catalog are designed as surveillance or security sensors, so not specifically as photo sensor.

OMDS is taking a leaf from Panasonic and Nikon playbook by giving teasers and video snippets in coming weeks and could officially launch in February 2023.

4 days ago...

 

[Pitachu]

Yep, I would expect Olympus and OMDS to know it's customer needs and not put a 41mp sensor into the OM5 or even it's future flagship. After all, if a user needs a higher resolution camera, there are lots of options in the market eg. Sony A7R3 or A7R4, Canon, or even the Fujifilm GFX 102mp. The reason I believe most users choose M43 is actually the smaller sensor providing a higher focal mutiplier 2x. A 300mm lenses on a M43 gives an equivalent of 600mm....... yes let's not go into this equivalence argument and so on. The Focal Multiplier works, provides 600mm equivalent images on a 300mm lenses and the picture quality is very acceptable.

I definitely do not want a 41mp sensor at the expense of battery life, response time, cost etc. For my usage, taking photos during travel and treking and reproduce them in social media, photobooks and once in a blue moon, some A3 posters etc, 20mp is more than enough.