OFFICIAL: CANON EOS 6D - User Thread - Part 2

[avsquare]

Prices Dropped already in Japan : S$2478.00 (Body only) after tourist 10% discount (YEN169560.00)

ヨドバシ.com - キヤノン EOS 6D [ボディ]【無料配達】

That's interesting. I shall see what's the price there by March 13 during my 2 weeks trip there

 

[serverxeon]

what is the Singapore body price now? got drop to Japan price level?

 

[doodah]

Guys, the DXOMark measurement, I take no doubt, is accurate (up to the equipment precision) for each sensor. But the final scores definitely skewed...

2. DXO needs the color depth and dynamic range to be a certain level when measuring ISO performance. To be exact, they want the color depth to be over 18 bits when SNR is 30 bits and above. So 6D only got 17.9 bits at ISO 2400 and unfortunately not passing this criteria. so the highest ISO score by this standard is 2340. I don't know why they magically choose 18 bits but not any other value.

So if only consider the SNR value of the two sensor at screen size, and give 30 bits and above as a good ISO performance, both camera will have a score of around 1200.

Lastly, my suggestion is: take a look at the actual measurement in Screen output of each individual segment and ignore the final scoring of the sensor.

Indeed. DXO scores are always skewed... almost as if they are anti-Canon. :bsmilie: Look at their old D70 vs 10D/20D scores... real world photos show a HUGE difference in >= ISO 800 performance, but the scores pay little heed to this difference.

Real world shots processed with one's favorite software (Adobe, DXO, DPP etc) matter most. Honestly, at this point, I believe all FF DSLR high ISO performances are too close for one to differentiate. Real world results, as some folks have pointed out, are far better indicators.

Unfortunately for Canon, real world photos clearly reveal their limited low ISO dynamic range. Firstly there's banding (hopefully no longer present in 6D) in the shadows. Interestingly, banding is not revealed in DXOMark scoring methodology. Secondly, there's noise, most apparent when one tries to lift the shadows. Sigh...

 

[wallet]

I am with you. A better sensor will always enhance the overall performance of the camera, period.

Agree agree

 

[user12343]

LR 4.3 update adds 6d to its ACR engine.

 

[doodah]

LR 4.3 update adds 6d to its ACR engine.

And here is the link.

Uprez, downrez, pixelpeep to our hearts content!!! Hip hip hooray!

 

[SoundOfSilence]

And here is the link.

Uprez, downrez, pixelpeep to our hearts content!!! Hip hip hooray!

Like finally!!!

Going to pixelpeep to my heart's content now:bsmilie:

 

[brapodam]

Indeed. DXO scores are always skewed... almost as if they are anti-Canon. :bsmilie: Look at their old D70 vs 10D/20D scores... real world photos show a HUGE difference in >= ISO 800 performance, but the scores pay little heed to this difference.

Real world shots processed with one's favorite software (Adobe, DXO, DPP etc) matter most. Honestly, at this point, I believe all FF DSLR high ISO performances are too close for one to differentiate. Real world results, as some folks have pointed out, are far better indicators.

Unfortunately for Canon, real world photos clearly reveal their limited low ISO dynamic range. Firstly there's banding (hopefully no longer present in 6D) in the shadows. Interestingly, banding is not revealed in DXOMark scoring methodology. Secondly, there's noise, most apparent when one tries to lift the shadows. Sigh...

Actually, DXOMark doesn't want to use real world processed shots because they are testing what the sensor produces at the raw level. Once you process the shots, the results will depend a lot on the processing engine and how it deals with the relevant sensors. Some processing engines deal with certain sensors better, but DXOMark doesn't want to take that into consideration, as it creates an unfair comparison. Nikon sensors are probably optimised in some way that makes it such that the unprocessed photos appear better than their Canon counterparts, and thus score better in DXOMark tests.

But really, sensor is only one part of the camera you need to care about. The AF system (speed, accuracy, low light performance), the interface, ergonomics...all these factors play a huge part in determining what you can do with your camera. Using a camera that makes sense to you is much better than using a camera which interface confounds you, but has the best sensor in the world.

 

[iLoveMyGears]

yess, sensor is only part of a camera although its the most important one. modern sensors are good enough for everyone but becoz this is a techy forum, we measure everything like it can change your photos into winner.

even if we dont measure sensor, the AF, 1 Cross type, 97% VF, single card slot are stillll inferior to D600. Sweat.... left some nifty feature like gps and wifi.

 

[ageha]

yess, sensor is only part of a camera although its the most important one. modern sensors are good enough for everyone but becoz this is a techy forum, we measure everything like it can change your photos into winner.

even if we dont measure sensor, the AF, 1 Cross type, 97% VF, single card slot are stillll inferior to D600. Sweat.... left some nifty feature like gps and wifi.

Why do people keep repeating the same bs? The AF system isn't inferior to the D600. The D600 has a sunny weather only system, just good for tracking at the beach. The D600's AF system is horrible and the shutter debris is annoying.

 

[iLoveMyGears]

Why do people keep repeating the same bs? The AF system isn't inferior to the D600. The D600 has a sunny weather only system, just good for tracking at the beach. The D600's AF system is horrible and the shutter debris is annoying.

aiya, all camera got pros and cons

 

[doodah]

Actually, DXOMark doesn't want to use real world processed shots because they are testing what the sensor produces at the raw level. Once you process the shots, the results will depend a lot on the processing engine and how it deals with the relevant sensors. Some processing engines deal with certain sensors better, but DXOMark doesn't want to take that into consideration, as it creates an unfair comparison. Nikon sensors are probably optimised in some way that makes it such that the unprocessed photos appear better than their Canon counterparts, and thus score better in DXOMark tests.

I know where you come from. But for me, everything revolves around Lightroom, so I judge camera performances based on Lightroom output.

ISO 12800, D600 vs 5D3 vs 6D (left to right):

Shadow lifting at ISO 100. +4 eV. D600 vs 5D3 vs 6D (left to right):

Using Lightroom standards, in the high ISO department, 6D is the best followed closely by D600. 5D3 trails behind. For low ISO shadow lifting, no Canon camera can touch what Nikon/Sony sensor offers. So, while I find DXOMark methodology questionable if not biased, I have to agree with their overall assessment that Nikon/Sony sensors really rock.

aiya, all camera got pros and cons

Actually, this is not a question of performance. It's a question about factory QC. And Nikon's factory reliability is really in the pits this year with D800 left side AF problems and D600 sensor debris issues.

 

[raydio]

The shadow lifting really tells a story about the differences in sensor technology. Are these your tests Doodah or do they come from DXO?

 

[nikoneer]

There has been much duress over the DXO marks on both sides of the camp that I feel is largely unfounded. Sensor technology has progressed to such an extent and it has matured to a point where the human eye cannot derive appreciable anomalies between the two largest manufacturers. Put two photos side by side... one from the Canon 5D3 and the other from the Nikon D800 or still yet, one from the Canon 6D and the other from the Nikon D600... and people would be hard pressed to tell which camera produced which photo.

Ladies and gentlemen, the race is no longer an issue of who has the better sensor. It is like saying Competitor A can produce a sensor capable of displaying 1.5 billion colours and Competitor B can produce a sensor capable of displaying 1.0 billion colours. Yet the human eye can only distinguish 10 million colours! Therefore it makes absolutely no difference how many billions of colours each of the competitors make.

The technical race is now in AF sensitivity and accuracy and also in low light light and noise technology. These are still distinguishable among variant cameras. This is where the true race lies.

+1

I nearly heard morgan freeman narrating this.

 

[raydio]

+1

I nearly heard morgan freeman narrating this.

Ha ha... I once worked as an announcer on a radio station. Those were good times!

 

[user12343]

Shadow lifting at ISO 100. +4 eV. D600 vs 5D3 vs 6D (left to right):

Using Lightroom standards, in the high ISO department, 6D is the best followed closely by D600. 5D3 trails behind. For low ISO shadow lifting, no Canon camera can touch what Nikon/Sony sensor offers. So, while I find DXOMark methodology questionable if not biased, I have to agree with their overall assessment that Nikon/Sony sensors really rock.



Actually, this is not a question of performance. It's a question about factory QC. And Nikon's factory reliability is really in the pits this year with D800 left side AF problems and D600 sensor debris issues.

If my eyes din fail me, there's still a slight more shadow information in the wine bottle label for the canons. or is the D600 bumped a bit higher eV than the rest?

 

[Frankenstein]

Can I check if anyone knows the latest price in Japan for the 6D body and Kit 1. Would be helpful as well if anyone knows if Kit 2 is already available in Japan. Thank you.

 

[avsquare]

Can I check if anyone knows the latest price in Japan for the 6D body and Kit 1. Would be helpful as well if anyone knows if Kit 2 is already available in Japan. Thank you.

Japan's 6D Kit 2 launch date is 19th Dec.

 

[ageha]

Can I check if anyone knows the latest price in Japan for the 6D body and Kit 1. Would be helpful as well if anyone knows if Kit 2 is already available in Japan. Thank you.

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[doodah]

The shadow lifting really tells a story about the differences in sensor technology. Are these your tests Doodah or do they come from DXO?

They came from RAW files provided by Focus Numerique here.

If my eyes din fail me, there's still a slight more shadow information in the wine bottle label for the canons. or is the D600 bumped a bit higher eV than the rest?

Focus Numerique is very careful with their tests. I presume the difference stems from in-camera tone curves, and not camera settings which should be identical across the various cameras.

Google knows everything but please keep the secret for you.
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Cooool.