Will I feel the difference if I buy a NTSC videocam that records into a hard disk or SD card as opposed to buying one that adopts PAL? If I am not wrong, the difference should only be in direct output from the camcorder, but the files should be the same, or am I wrong? I know most television sets can accept either NTSC or PAL. Also, does NTSC and PAL have any association with HD i.e. is there such a thing as HD PAL?
NTSC vs PAL questions
- Thread starter Parchiao
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jaegersing
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They are different, both in frame size and frame rate. Whether it is a problem for you depends on your final delivery format. For example, if you are producing only for PC environment or the web, it doesn't really matter which one you start with.
If you are making DVDs, it is more convenient to work with PAL files, since you can display them on normal TVs. However if you are in Singapore then all DVD players accept NTSC discs, and most TVs are probably multisystem, so again you could use either format.
One advantage of PAL is the better resolution, 576 vs 480 vertical pixels. Another is that it is relatively easy to convert from interlaced to progressive, because there is no 3:2 pull-down to bother about.
For HD, the frame sizes are the same, but the frame rates are still different between PAL and NTSC countries.
If you are making DVDs, it is more convenient to work with PAL files, since you can display them on normal TVs. However if you are in Singapore then all DVD players accept NTSC discs, and most TVs are probably multisystem, so again you could use either format.
One advantage of PAL is the better resolution, 576 vs 480 vertical pixels. Another is that it is relatively easy to convert from interlaced to progressive, because there is no 3:2 pull-down to bother about.
For HD, the frame sizes are the same, but the frame rates are still different between PAL and NTSC countries.
Definiely go for PAL camera.
In the US, some companies shoot using 25fps in HD becos it is easier to convert to film rate of 24fps for theatrical release.
Video is slightly speeded up without too much notice and audio pitch is increase about 4% to maintain lip-sync.
Wait a minute, isn't PAL and NTSC meant for analougue TV systems, and HDTV is digital?
I was originally thinking that it does make a difference if I were to buy a MiniDV camcorder, and the PAL and NTSC thing would be a purchase consideration as I would have to convert any recordings to let's say MPEG2 format by playing the tape direct (in PAL or NTSC) into my computer. I am looking to buy the Panasonic HDR-SD1, one of those consumer gizmos that records into a SDHC card, not tape. Any conversion would probably be done by copying the file over to the hard disk.
And from DVD player to TV, would that (PAL or NTSC) not be dependent on the DVD player output and not the file stored on the DVD itself?
Help! I'm still as confused as before.
I was originally thinking that it does make a difference if I were to buy a MiniDV camcorder, and the PAL and NTSC thing would be a purchase consideration as I would have to convert any recordings to let's say MPEG2 format by playing the tape direct (in PAL or NTSC) into my computer. I am looking to buy the Panasonic HDR-SD1, one of those consumer gizmos that records into a SDHC card, not tape. Any conversion would probably be done by copying the file over to the hard disk.
And from DVD player to TV, would that (PAL or NTSC) not be dependent on the DVD player output and not the file stored on the DVD itself?
Help! I'm still as confused as before.
jaegersing
Deregistered
Yes, correct. But nowadays nearly everything is converted to digital at some stage, including PAL and NTSC. However, even when they are converted to digital, the resolution and frame rate for PAL and NTSC material are still preserved.
HD covers more than one resolution, and this is independent of PAL/NTSC factors. But HD also covers more than one frame rate, and for ease of downconversion to SD, (for DVD playback or broadcast) it is normal to use a frame rate that is related to the SD video standard for the country you are in. So HD material in a PAL country would normally use 50i, 50p or 25p.
Usually you would want to edit the video before making the MPEG2 files, so it is best to keep it in DV format during the edit process and then convert to MPEG2 at the end.
By the way, MiniDV is also digital, and when you capture via firewire to your computer, you are really just transferring the digital files to the hard disk. However, the DV spec includes 720x576 25 fps interlaced (PAL) and 720x480 29.87 fps interlaced (NTSC) and the data in the video files has to conform to one or the other.
This is really the same as what happens with the MiniDV files captured via firewire. Only the storage medium is different, not the process.
Not really. DVDs are made in either PAL or NTSC format, to suit the country where they are intended to be sold. The MPEG2 files that you create after editing your video also have to be either PAL or NTSC compatible (meaning correct resolution and frame rate again). The DVD players in Singapore will play back both PAL and NTSC format DVDs, and the analogue signal coming out will usually depend on the DVD type, not the player.
Help! I'm still as confused as before.
I hope this helps a bit!
Parchiao,
Ok, image technology 101.
You are rite that PAL and NTSC is mainly for Analog TV system. But even HDTV has their own rendition. Let me explain to you furtheron why this is the reason. But firstly the basic.
NTSC - Is the analog TV system adopted by US, Canada, Japan, South Korea and some other countries (mainly US affiliated countries). It has 2 variant namely NTSC-M and NTSC-J. NTSC-J is the Japan variant. Since we are talking abt DV, I willl skip the broadcast/transmission details of the format and focus on the part that matters. For more info you ca always wiki it. NTSC comes from National Television System Commitee. It has 525 vertical lines but only of which 480 interlace lines are used for picture information. Color information is based on Y/C or luminance / chrominance. Meaning light/dark information are stored seperately from color information. NTSC-M works on RLE 7.5 while NTSC-J works on RLE 0. This refer to where the balck level is set. NTSC in general has a smaller dynamic range then PAL. In terms of frame rate, NTSC started off with 60hz of interlaced frames or 30 frame per sec during the monochrome days. It got change to 59.94hz of interlaced frames or 29.97 fps after color came into the picture. One of the reason it was at 60hz is mainly to do with the AC electricity in US which alternate at 60hz.
PAL - Stands for Phase Alternating Line. It has a greater resolution then NTSC at vertical picture resolution of 576 lines. And travel at 50hz of interlaced frames or 25fps, which is closer to what motion film's 24fps. Likewise the reason for 50hz is due to the AC in the countries that adopted the format which runs on 50hz as well. PAL has a lot more variant namely PAL B, G, D, H or I. But the difference is mainly the color encoding during broadcast/transmission. Thus in the digtal vido application it has no difference.
1080i/60 - One of HDTV video mode. 1080 stands for the vertical resolution while i stands for interlaced or non-progressive scan. The number that follows indicate that frequency or how fast it travels. At 60hz in this case. This is used in general with countries that used traditionally NTSC. Reason mainly is backward compatibility with old SD footages. So ease of upsample the footage without the need to change the frame rate.
1080i/50 - 1080 lines of vertical resolution at 50hz of interlaced video. Used mainly in countries that use PAL or SECAM. Singapore being one of them.
For added information google them...
Ok now to your question.
In a way you are rite when you say it is a purchase decision whether PAL or NTSC when all you do is to play that your footage and play them (of course on the pretext that you have a multisystem TV set). But I need to correct you that conversion is not as easy as copying the file from the harddisk. As the file is in the first place encoded in the specific resolution and frame rate that is first in the camera whether "PAL" at 576i/50, 1080i/50 or "NTSC" at 480i/30, 1080i/60. Conversion will require resizing if shot in SD and resampling at a different frame rate for both HD/SD. Rendering is required if done without hardware convertor. And eitherway means a drop in signal quality...
As for DVD player to TV, yes it depends on the DVD player output..but it also depends on the format the DVD is encoded in. Nowadays most DVD player accept multisystem formated DVD anyway..thus you dun actually notice the difference.
Thanx
Pierce
Ok, image technology 101.
You are rite that PAL and NTSC is mainly for Analog TV system. But even HDTV has their own rendition. Let me explain to you furtheron why this is the reason. But firstly the basic.
NTSC - Is the analog TV system adopted by US, Canada, Japan, South Korea and some other countries (mainly US affiliated countries). It has 2 variant namely NTSC-M and NTSC-J. NTSC-J is the Japan variant. Since we are talking abt DV, I willl skip the broadcast/transmission details of the format and focus on the part that matters. For more info you ca always wiki it. NTSC comes from National Television System Commitee. It has 525 vertical lines but only of which 480 interlace lines are used for picture information. Color information is based on Y/C or luminance / chrominance. Meaning light/dark information are stored seperately from color information. NTSC-M works on RLE 7.5 while NTSC-J works on RLE 0. This refer to where the balck level is set. NTSC in general has a smaller dynamic range then PAL. In terms of frame rate, NTSC started off with 60hz of interlaced frames or 30 frame per sec during the monochrome days. It got change to 59.94hz of interlaced frames or 29.97 fps after color came into the picture. One of the reason it was at 60hz is mainly to do with the AC electricity in US which alternate at 60hz.
PAL - Stands for Phase Alternating Line. It has a greater resolution then NTSC at vertical picture resolution of 576 lines. And travel at 50hz of interlaced frames or 25fps, which is closer to what motion film's 24fps. Likewise the reason for 50hz is due to the AC in the countries that adopted the format which runs on 50hz as well. PAL has a lot more variant namely PAL B, G, D, H or I. But the difference is mainly the color encoding during broadcast/transmission. Thus in the digtal vido application it has no difference.
1080i/60 - One of HDTV video mode. 1080 stands for the vertical resolution while i stands for interlaced or non-progressive scan. The number that follows indicate that frequency or how fast it travels. At 60hz in this case. This is used in general with countries that used traditionally NTSC. Reason mainly is backward compatibility with old SD footages. So ease of upsample the footage without the need to change the frame rate.
1080i/50 - 1080 lines of vertical resolution at 50hz of interlaced video. Used mainly in countries that use PAL or SECAM. Singapore being one of them.
For added information google them...
Ok now to your question.
In a way you are rite when you say it is a purchase decision whether PAL or NTSC when all you do is to play that your footage and play them (of course on the pretext that you have a multisystem TV set). But I need to correct you that conversion is not as easy as copying the file from the harddisk. As the file is in the first place encoded in the specific resolution and frame rate that is first in the camera whether "PAL" at 576i/50, 1080i/50 or "NTSC" at 480i/30, 1080i/60. Conversion will require resizing if shot in SD and resampling at a different frame rate for both HD/SD. Rendering is required if done without hardware convertor. And eitherway means a drop in signal quality...
As for DVD player to TV, yes it depends on the DVD player output..but it also depends on the format the DVD is encoded in. Nowadays most DVD player accept multisystem formated DVD anyway..thus you dun actually notice the difference.
Thanx
Pierce
jaegersing
Deregistered
Hi Parchiao. Yes that is correct. The camera just sees a scene with light, colour and shade, same as what we see with our eyes. In order to capture that (i.e. record), it has to use one particular format, be it PAL, NTSC, HDV or whatever, to convert the light into a signal that can be recorded.
alvinsclee
New Member
By the way in case u haven't yet heard...
NTSC stands for Never Twice Same Colour..
Heehee
...and PAL means "Picture Always Lovely"
...and PAL means "Picture Always Lovely"
I was taught PAL means "Peace At Last"
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