Nikon now has a super-micro 4/3 system


On Clubsnap, we are 'blessed'- we can think only about the technology and the functionality/ looks/ whatever other criteria of the product itself to try and guess who will dominate.

Unfortunately, in business it's not so simple.

For example, say Olympus and Panasonic start attacking Sony in their marketing. To play into perceptions that Sony is a company that likes to use proprietary technology (eg. the ill-fated Memory Stick), they talk about how no other company produces NEX lenses, while they have each other, Voigtlander, Samyang... Their tagline: "M4/3 brings you a universe of possibilities". They then show you all the native lenses (I'll assume they'll also include all the 4/3 lenses).

So say this is happening, and this works. Sony now faces a choice. Do they defend the NEX, saying it's the latest and greatest thing they have? For instance, they can counter with lenses in the NEX stable, including all the A mount lenses with a new adapter. But this will have consequences for consumer perception of their Axx bodies. Those in the know will still understand the difference, but the public probably wouldn't. So what will Sony do?

On the other hand, say Oly/ Panasonic attack Nikon. They simply run ads showing the difference in sensor size between Nikon's mirrorless and Nikon's own bigger camera. Then they show their own 4/3 vs m4/3: same sensor size. "Do you want to settle for any less?" What will Nikon do? Go on the offensive, but at the risk of killing its own DSLR?

These are just advertising problems. There are also others, like distribution. Olympus and Panasonic have been out of the game for so long, they face real barriers trying to reach out to Canon, Nikon, or even Sony's distributors. Retail is moving online as we speak, but I suspect for higher end (and more fragile) items like cameras, online retail is still not so popular, because people rather go to shops. Now, when they go to the shop, even if the shop carries Olympus (it may not), does the salesperson want to or know how to sell Olympus? Perhaps not. The most important market ($$ wise) is obviously the US, since trends in Japan seldom translate to the rest of the world. No matter how successful Olympus may be here, if it doesn't crack the distribution game in the US, then they're in trouble.

On the other hand, having more mirrorless cameras can only be good for the development of the product line as a whole. Since Olympus and Panasonic have thrown everything + the kitchen sink into their M4/3 cameras, it might be that they'll come out with guns blazing and throw every last marketing muscle and production capacity at it, hoping to conquer the market.

But it may not be enough. I suspect the two companies don't have their marketing and production isn't so up to scratch, which may be why you've seen the same sensor being used for three generations of cameras now. It's not rocket science improving on a sensor, especially not for a company with a long history in photography like Olympus. They've certainly innovated on the lenses front (45/1.8 and 12/2 seem like real keepers), but considering it's all their doing now, why couldn't they have also improved the core sensor behind their Pen cameras? Sony has the Axx to worry about; Nikon now has even more lines than any other camera. Panasonic continues to improve its sensor independently. So what was Olympus busy with?

I'll be watching to see how Olympus and Panasonic respond, now that one of the big boys have officially played their hand. Can they move fast enough in the innovation department? Or will they just be overrun very quickly? Interesting times ahead.
 

cannedpineapples said:
So what was Olympus busy with?

A medium format sensor in a PnS form factor?

But I agree with you... In business, technology is just one aspect. Some years ago I listened to a key note given by a certain Mr Sim who said how much technologically superior and feature rich his MP3 player was versus the fruit brand. See how their fortunes have turned.
 

Here's a sample from the new Nikon mirrorless. A picture speaks a thousand words. IQ looks excellent. I think Nikon is going to give M4/3 a run for their money...

http://chsv.nikon-image.com/products/camera/acil/body/nikon1_v1/img/sample/pic_002.jpg

The brit chinese guy on Digital Rev said that the GF3 is an attempt by Panasonic to compete with the simplicity of the NEX.
 

this is what I notice,
when olympus desigend E1 with patented dust free system, all other brand follow to have their own dust free (sensor shake)
when olympus designed E330 the world 1st DSLR with liveview, everyone was laughing. and now Liveview is a must.
when olympus designed EP1, world 1st mirrorless digital camera, rest of manufacturer see pointless. now even Nikon lost 1/3 of market share in Japan and under pressured to launch mirrorless as well.
 

Here's a sample from the new Nikon mirrorless. A picture speaks a thousand words. IQ looks excellent. I think Nikon is going to give M4/3 a run for their money...

http://chsv.nikon-image.com/products/camera/acil/body/nikon1_v1/img/sample/pic_002.jpg

The brit chinese guy on Digital Rev said that the GF3 is an attempt by Panasonic to compete with the simplicity of the NEX.

wow!!
 

this is what I notice,
when olympus desigend E1 with patented dust free system, all other brand follow to have their own dust free (sensor shake)
when olympus designed E330 the world 1st DSLR with liveview, everyone was laughing. and now Liveview is a must.
when olympus designed EP1, world 1st mirrorless digital camera, rest of manufacturer see pointless. now even Nikon lost 1/3 of market share in Japan and under pressured to launch mirrorless as well.

Oly, Oly, Oly. You might want to add 'Art' filters to list.....there are now 10 in EP3......Canon got nil, dont know about Nikon 1.....only Pana & Sony have some decent filters.
 

Oly, Oly, Oly. You might want to add 'Art' filters to list.....there are now 10 in EP3......Canon got nil, dont know about Nikon 1.....only Pana & Sony have some decent filters.

opsss..thanks for reminding. yes, art filter to the list.
 

Same here except for the sell better than m4/3 part.
No unique proposition above m4/3.
The m4/3 set of small fast primes are already quite in place.
The Nikon one only has a 10/2.8, which is a bit too wide for many ppl as a normal lens and wide focal length+f2.8 can't compare with a lens like 20/1.7 for DOF control.
The zooms just spoil the form factor and not very inspiring imo.

Brand sells. I see much more people with nex than m4/3 even when nex just came out. There's still many consumers buying camera based on brand alone, Canikon and nothing else. Well, we shall see.
 

To play into perceptions that Sony is a company that likes to use proprietary technology (eg. the ill-fated Memory Stick), they talk about how no other company produces NEX lenses, while they have each other, Voigtlander, Samyang... Their tagline: "M4/3 brings you a universe of possibilities". They then show you all the native lenses (I'll assume they'll also include all the 4/3 lenses).

The NEX mount is open, and Sigma, Voigtlander, etc, are happily designing lenses for it.
 

Imaging Resource has sample pics from Nikon J1. i can't post links though
 

Brand sells. I see much more people with nex than m4/3 even when nex just came out. There's still many consumers buying camera based on brand alone, Canikon and nothing else. Well, we shall see.

I only recognize the ads with Britney Spears with an Oly :D

Nikon as a brand will surely sell some MILC due to sheer weight of brand alone, but Oly and Panasonic are no wimps in marketing and advertisements either.
 

The NEX mount is open, and Sigma, Voigtlander, etc, are happily designing lenses for it.

My bad. But anyway, in marketing, perception is reality. Sony has an image problem in that it's known for making good proprietary hardware but not being good at nailing the software.

They could also throw away their 4/3 lineup and say 'this is our flagship product. There's nothing else. Wouldn't you want the best?' then compare Sony Axx to Sony NEX to try to convince consumers that Sony is shortchanging them. Wouldn't be true either, but well, that's marketing.

TBH, none of this really matters. I think a Point-and-Shoot upgrader is going to be so confused that he'll likely just choose by 1) availability 2) brand 3) salesman's recommendation- and not necessarily in that order. He will walk into the shop wanting a PnS, realise that mirrorless is just as small and with much better IQ at only slightly bigger size, and get that based on point-of-sale tactics. It's easy for a salesman to say stuff like "Sony is Proprietary", or, "Nikon has so many years of experience it can't go wrong", or, "this is Olympus' flagship- they use all their technology here".

The shop- that's where the battle is going to be won for a Point-and-Shoot upgrader. For the DSLR crowd, the battle is going to be online (in forums like these), but I suspect that all camera makers are now eyeing the Point-and-Shoot guys for growth because the DSLR market is very saturated and honestly, once you've started with a mirrorless, you get good enough technology such that you're seldom going to want to move up to the DSLR.

It's like what happened for desktop -> laptop, or big hard drive -> portable hard drive. Once performance for the smaller product reaches 'good enough' standard, and size benefits are immense, you first get the low hanging fruit (PnS upgraders, also some DSLR shooters who feel the weight is now just too much). Eventually, as the technology continues to mature and performance improves while the size remains small, everybody moves to mirrorless (like Olympus and Panasonic), and the you get mass adoption of laptops and mirrorless on one hand, and desktop computers / full-frame cameras used only by the real industry pros on the other hand.
 

........................ I think a Point-and-Shoot upgrader is going to be so confused that he'll likely just choose by 1) availability 2) brand 3) salesman's recommendation- and not necessarily in that order. He will walk into the shop wanting a PnS, realise that mirrorless is just as small and with much better IQ at only slightly bigger size, and get that based on point-of-sale tactics.....

Was at shop yest and this guy points out small little GF2 to his girlfriend who goes 'so cute'. Seems the PnS crowd moving towards mirrorless?
 

They're applying what they learnt from the game console industry.
 

Here's a sample from the new Nikon mirrorless. A picture speaks a thousand words. IQ looks excellent. I think Nikon is going to give M4/3 a run for their money...

http://chsv.nikon-image.com/products/camera/acil/body/nikon1_v1/img/sample/pic_002.jpg

The brit chinese guy on Digital Rev said that the GF3 is an attempt by Panasonic to compete with the simplicity of the NEX.

I have seen quite a number of photos and they are really excellent. Another option for me.
 

I do not have long history of using cameras or being a photographer, and I am still not a photographer. I take photos of my family and friends for casual and for keeping good quality photos for memory sake as I am sick of PNS quality...quality that really makes me lost all the good opportunity to have good pictures to remind me of good old times.

To me, a good camera is one that is easy to use, easy on the wallet and take good quality pictures (bonus with good video as well), so that I will bring it out often and my wife or son can also use it to take nice photos of me as well.

It doesn't bother me whether they have the latest technology, latest features, latest gimmicks or looks the best or most retro or have the most lenses on the planet as I probably only need 2-3.

If a camera cannot perform what I have stated above (easy to use and take good photos and affordable), then it will just another piece of gadget junk that gets replaced every 6 months.
 

Last edited:
Thom Hogan just wrote this on his blog <www.bythom.com>
(entire text below is quoted)

""Everyone's looking for redemption in a new camera. The old ones work pretty well." --Thom Hogan, 2011.

Yes, I mean you. Quick, how many different cameras have you bought in the past two years? Is your photography any better?"
 

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