Dun think D4 has the function to switch to DX mode.
Nikon 300 f2.8, Nikon 400 2.8 or a Nikon 200/400 f4 for shooting wildlife in Malaysia
- Thread starter ndwgolf
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Dun think D4 has the function to switch to DX mode.
Luminare
Senior Member
D4 in FF is 16 MP. It can change to DX mode to shoot at 1.5 times but only at 9 MP or so which otherwise mean that resolution is pretty much handicapped.
In contrast, the D7100 is capable of 24 MP in DX mode. Hence what you'll be getting is (1.5) x 400mm x 2 (TC) => equivalent of 1200mm FoV and a much higher resolution.
For stationary birds and small birds that are perched, it is an excellent way to showcase the details of the subjects.
Surely, the D7100 is not going to exhibit the same kind of ISO capability compared to the D4 nor will it beat the 10 to 11 FPS for action shots. What this translates to is that you'll need to lock down the gimbal and release the shutter remotely without touching the camera body to prevent camera shake. As a matter of fact, shooting anything that range will require some form of locking down the gimbal when shooting at native ISO conditions that preserve the feather details.
Using a TC and switching to DX on D4 / D800/800E D600 / D610 is totally different.
Firstly the TC reduces the aperture by 1.4 times on a TC-14E II. However it maintains the sensor at FF which produces better ISO noise suppression. Secondly, the DOF is also different. The TC produces a focal length of 1.4 times of the lens it is attached too. Meaning if you are attaching it to a 500mm f/4, it becomes a 700mm f/5.6. Hence your focal length is based on 700mm and whatever aperture you select at f/5.6 or beyond.
When using crop sensor, what it does is that it is narrowing the FoV using the center section of the camera sensor. This reduces the ISO noise suppression capability (Bigger sensor, better noise suppression) and the focal length remain the same, it does not bring you "near" to the subject, it just narrows the FoV so the subject look bigger. This affects the DOF.
Hence if you are shooting at 500mm f/4 on a D7100, while you get a FoV equivalent of 750mm, your focal length remains at 500mm and the resultant DOF is calculated based on a focal length of 500mm. What this means is that the DOF is more and you may not get the subject isolation desired of wild life portraits.
To summarise everything:
1) D7100 + 500mm f/4 + TC-14E II gets you a FoV equivalent of 1050mm, a max aperture of f/5.6 with 24MP. Great for perched birds and some action shots depending on light conditions and technique.
2) D4 + 500mm f/4 + TC-14E II gets you 700mm f/5.6 at 16 MP or an equivalent of 1050mm FoV at 9 MP. For action shots, excellent as you'll be shooting at shutter speeds of 1/250 sec onwards and this is where the high ISO noise suppression of the D4 come into play.
3) D7100 + 400mm f/2.8 + TC-20E III gets you a FoV equivalent of 1200mm, a max aperture of f/5.6 with 24 MP.Great for perched birds and some action shots depending on light conditions and technique.
4) D4 + 400mm f/2.8 + TC-20E III gets you a FoV equivalent of 800mm, a max aperture of f/5.6 with 16 MP and still allow you to shoot action shoots at 1/800 sec without worry on noise.
The most versatile setup goes to the D4 + 400mm f/2.8 + Full range of TC and I would get a D7100 as an alternate body for super long range perched shots.
Other setups can involve the 600mm f/4 with TC-17E II or 800mm f/5.6 with TC-12E that is sold together with the 800mm as a set.
Ultra long reach has its limitations caused both by stability to prevent camera shake as well as environment conditions like glare and heat haze. So while its looks appealing on paper to have D7100 + 600mm f/4 + TC-17E II for reach, its field deployment is subject to the conditions above.
Camera shake is ultra sensitive for super telephoto shots. Sound technique in preventing camera shake makes or breaks a super telephoto shot of perched birds at slow shutter speeds while maintaining low ISO of ISO 1200 (D4 as benchmark) and below.
In contrast, the D7100 is capable of 24 MP in DX mode. Hence what you'll be getting is (1.5) x 400mm x 2 (TC) => equivalent of 1200mm FoV and a much higher resolution.
For stationary birds and small birds that are perched, it is an excellent way to showcase the details of the subjects.
Surely, the D7100 is not going to exhibit the same kind of ISO capability compared to the D4 nor will it beat the 10 to 11 FPS for action shots. What this translates to is that you'll need to lock down the gimbal and release the shutter remotely without touching the camera body to prevent camera shake. As a matter of fact, shooting anything that range will require some form of locking down the gimbal when shooting at native ISO conditions that preserve the feather details.
Using a TC and switching to DX on D4 / D800/800E D600 / D610 is totally different.
Firstly the TC reduces the aperture by 1.4 times on a TC-14E II. However it maintains the sensor at FF which produces better ISO noise suppression. Secondly, the DOF is also different. The TC produces a focal length of 1.4 times of the lens it is attached too. Meaning if you are attaching it to a 500mm f/4, it becomes a 700mm f/5.6. Hence your focal length is based on 700mm and whatever aperture you select at f/5.6 or beyond.
When using crop sensor, what it does is that it is narrowing the FoV using the center section of the camera sensor. This reduces the ISO noise suppression capability (Bigger sensor, better noise suppression) and the focal length remain the same, it does not bring you "near" to the subject, it just narrows the FoV so the subject look bigger. This affects the DOF.
Hence if you are shooting at 500mm f/4 on a D7100, while you get a FoV equivalent of 750mm, your focal length remains at 500mm and the resultant DOF is calculated based on a focal length of 500mm. What this means is that the DOF is more and you may not get the subject isolation desired of wild life portraits.
To summarise everything:
1) D7100 + 500mm f/4 + TC-14E II gets you a FoV equivalent of 1050mm, a max aperture of f/5.6 with 24MP. Great for perched birds and some action shots depending on light conditions and technique.
2) D4 + 500mm f/4 + TC-14E II gets you 700mm f/5.6 at 16 MP or an equivalent of 1050mm FoV at 9 MP. For action shots, excellent as you'll be shooting at shutter speeds of 1/250 sec onwards and this is where the high ISO noise suppression of the D4 come into play.
3) D7100 + 400mm f/2.8 + TC-20E III gets you a FoV equivalent of 1200mm, a max aperture of f/5.6 with 24 MP.Great for perched birds and some action shots depending on light conditions and technique.
4) D4 + 400mm f/2.8 + TC-20E III gets you a FoV equivalent of 800mm, a max aperture of f/5.6 with 16 MP and still allow you to shoot action shoots at 1/800 sec without worry on noise.
The most versatile setup goes to the D4 + 400mm f/2.8 + Full range of TC and I would get a D7100 as an alternate body for super long range perched shots.
Other setups can involve the 600mm f/4 with TC-17E II or 800mm f/5.6 with TC-12E that is sold together with the 800mm as a set.
Ultra long reach has its limitations caused both by stability to prevent camera shake as well as environment conditions like glare and heat haze. So while its looks appealing on paper to have D7100 + 600mm f/4 + TC-17E II for reach, its field deployment is subject to the conditions above.
Camera shake is ultra sensitive for super telephoto shots. Sound technique in preventing camera shake makes or breaks a super telephoto shot of perched birds at slow shutter speeds while maintaining low ISO of ISO 1200 (D4 as benchmark) and below.
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Didn't know D4 has the dx mode function. Thanks for highlighting.
Luminare
Senior Member
At the end of the day, there is a price to pay and trade off between reach and BIF.
For compactness and weight for transportation in the field in lieu of pathed tracks, the 400mm f/2.8 is still BIG for the common Asian size. Add on the Gimbal and tripod that has to support such a setup, you'll be staring at carrying 9.6 - 10Kg of setup not to mention the awkwardness of the CG of the load in fully deployed form.
The 500mm f/4 is both lighter and easier to deploy with one hood instead of the 2 stage hood of the 400mm f/2.8. It is also shorter. While the gimbal type would be likely the same for both setup, the choice of tripods are more and smaller / lighter tripods can be opted.
I opted for the Gitzo traveller GT 4552TS tripod and a Wimberley WH-200. If you should chose the 400mm f/2.8, I strongly suggest you change the Nikon lens foot to a Wimberley or after market one.
If you had read DXOMarks and if they are to be believed, the 400mm f/2.8 is the top in terms of resolving power with high resolution sensors like the D7100 and D800/E.
Make what you will and go for one that suits both your pockets and ambition.
For compactness and weight for transportation in the field in lieu of pathed tracks, the 400mm f/2.8 is still BIG for the common Asian size. Add on the Gimbal and tripod that has to support such a setup, you'll be staring at carrying 9.6 - 10Kg of setup not to mention the awkwardness of the CG of the load in fully deployed form.
The 500mm f/4 is both lighter and easier to deploy with one hood instead of the 2 stage hood of the 400mm f/2.8. It is also shorter. While the gimbal type would be likely the same for both setup, the choice of tripods are more and smaller / lighter tripods can be opted.
I opted for the Gitzo traveller GT 4552TS tripod and a Wimberley WH-200. If you should chose the 400mm f/2.8, I strongly suggest you change the Nikon lens foot to a Wimberley or after market one.
If you had read DXOMarks and if they are to be believed, the 400mm f/2.8 is the top in terms of resolving power with high resolution sensors like the D7100 and D800/E.
Make what you will and go for one that suits both your pockets and ambition.
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Switching a camera from FX to DX mode is similar to you shooting in FX and cropping it yourself in PP. You are losing resolution.
With a TC, the view is magnified optically, so you still have the same resolution with a much more magnified view. This also means you can crop even more.
Shooting with a DX camera, you get that 1.5 crop but yet the sensor is still full resolution (on D7100, you get 24mp. on D7000 you get 16mp).
Actually in the end it is about acceptable sharpness by each person, which may vary. This is shot with 300/2.8 with 2xTC wide open at F5.6 with a D4 in FX mode.
ndwgolf
New Member
This has really screwed things up.
I have fallen in love with the new Canon 200/400mm with the built in 1.4 converter which basically makes it a 200/600mm f4. My question is can I get a Nikon to Canon mount so that I could still use my 14/24 and 70/200mm Nikon Lenses on the Canon Body? If so I may switch depending on what pro DSLR model Canon have out right now. What is the best Canon DSLR right now?
I have fallen in love with the new Canon 200/400mm with the built in 1.4 converter which basically makes it a 200/600mm f4. My question is can I get a Nikon to Canon mount so that I could still use my 14/24 and 70/200mm Nikon Lenses on the Canon Body? If so I may switch depending on what pro DSLR model Canon have out right now. What is the best Canon DSLR right now?
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Luminare
Senior Member
Firstly, I think its a 200-400mm f/4 with a TC X1.4 built in but when switching to activate the TC, the lens becomes a 280-560mm f/5.6? Not very sure as I don't really read up about that lens
With regards to cannon body, you be better off asking that in the cannon forum.
Nonetheless, if you are keen in Cannon DSLR for wildlife, you wont go wrong with the 1DX or the 70D. The 70D will be like the Nikon D7100 except that it is 1.6X and not 1.5X crop.
However, at 560mm max reach, chances of getting good resolution of birds sensitive to human presence and small birds become more limited as one would when using Nikon's 200-400mm f/4 VR + TC-14E II
There are/is third party adaptors for the 14-24mm f/2.8G to be used on Cannon but you can only MF.
You be better off with Cannon's 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II (Or what the latest generation of the 70-200mm L lens is) on a cannon body.
With regards to cannon body, you be better off asking that in the cannon forum.
Nonetheless, if you are keen in Cannon DSLR for wildlife, you wont go wrong with the 1DX or the 70D. The 70D will be like the Nikon D7100 except that it is 1.6X and not 1.5X crop.
However, at 560mm max reach, chances of getting good resolution of birds sensitive to human presence and small birds become more limited as one would when using Nikon's 200-400mm f/4 VR + TC-14E II
There are/is third party adaptors for the 14-24mm f/2.8G to be used on Cannon but you can only MF.
You be better off with Cannon's 70-200mm f/2.8 IS II (Or what the latest generation of the 70-200mm L lens is) on a cannon body.
ndwgolf
New Member
Thanks for the feedback.........is the canon forum on this forum?
Luminare
Senior Member
That lens with the TC built it is really revolutionary. If you get a Nikon to Canon Adapter, you will lose all autofocus. It is not a very wise thing to maintain so many systems especially when you also have a Leica system.
The most logical move would be to either stay fully on Nikon or fully on Canon on DSLR. Canon's 70-200 IS II is no slouch as well, but Canon is slightly weaker in the wide department with the 16-35/2.8 L II.
ndwgolf
New Member
Here are a few birds that I shot yesterday in Seckichan West Malaysia. I was using my D3s with a 70/200mm with 2 x converter. I just couldnt belive how short 400mm is and also how soft the pictures look with the 2 x converter. I enjoyed myself taking these pictures but I am obviously using the wrong tool for the job so about time to fix that and go and get myself a 500mm f4
A white one
A yellow one
A blue one
A white one
A yellow one
A blue one
Light Machinery
Senior Member
The pics definitely looks soft. Especially picture # 3 of the kingfisher. But looking at sides of the picture & vegetation, it looks like the lens + TC is front focused.
Have you checked for AF fine tune?
My set up of 70-200 VRII + TC20III needs about -15 in the AF fine tune to center the focus at 400mm. Otherwise it will be severely back focused.
I took this in Minnesota, looks useable & sharp enough.
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Have you checked for AF fine tune?
My set up of 70-200 VRII + TC20III needs about -15 in the AF fine tune to center the focus at 400mm. Otherwise it will be severely back focused.
I took this in Minnesota, looks useable & sharp enough.
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ndwgolf
New Member
What is that and how do you do it??
Light Machinery
Senior Member
Most camera bodies & lenses have some front and back focusing issues caused by manufacturing tolerances. Nikon is no exception. Actually I have checked all of my lenses and they are all over the place. So to get the best out of the lenses, users will need to check for focusing issues.
1) Check your D3s, in the SETUP MENU, scroll to the second last item, it is the "AF fine tune". This item is used to fine tune a lens to the camera body ( lens or lens + TC).
2) You will need to set a target to adjust your camera lens combination. Make small adjustment increments until the focus is well centered. A minor back focus is desirable at time for so depth.
Here is how it looks like
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Here is a link from Nikon on how to do the AF fine adjustments.
https://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/51633
1) Check your D3s, in the SETUP MENU, scroll to the second last item, it is the "AF fine tune". This item is used to fine tune a lens to the camera body ( lens or lens + TC).
2) You will need to set a target to adjust your camera lens combination. Make small adjustment increments until the focus is well centered. A minor back focus is desirable at time for so depth.
Here is how it looks like
Here is a link from Nikon on how to do the AF fine adjustments.
https://nikoneurope-en.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/51633
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Hacker
Senior Member
Did you consider the 200-400mm?
ndwgolf
New Member
Yes I did
Hacker
Senior Member
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