kel77
Senior Member
Yup. Was using the Pana 7-14mm at f8
[ News ] GX7 is available for sale in Singapore
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Yup. Was using the Pana 7-14mm at f8
That's my impression too. I find low light on the gf6 worse than epl5. One of my reasons to avoid panasonic sensors.
But the oly and Pana sensors are similar for GH3 and GX7?
I have both the E-M5 and GX7. I find that the GX7 has *less* noise but smudges some of the details at 100%.
Here are two from shooting around Joo Chiat this weekend with the 100-300. I was shooting JPEG but because of the harsh sunlight, I had to lift some of the shadows. Uncropped.
entering sensitive grounds here. Just my POV, don't be offended ah.
There'r reasons why i've always stuck with Oly bodies. Months ago I had took a leap of faith to try out a GF3, followed by a GF5 and lastly the GX1 when its prices dived; all which i sold within a month against the EM5 & EP5. The GX1 and GX7's were superbly handsome bodies, well crafted and packed with goodies but just didn't work for me.
For me the line of thought was Oly bodies have the strength (5 axis IBIS to now the Pro EM-1 to just summarize a lot succintly) while Pana have the strength in lenses (from the 20/1.7 MK1 to the 14-140 (way sharper than Oly 14-150) to the 12-35 & 35-100); at least until Oly released the 75mm, 45mm, 17/1.8 & the 12-40mm and now all the FT lenses are practical again with the EM-1.
I'm not an enginner, just a amateur shooter; hence I can't discuss Oly vs Pana sensors in a smart manner but ya; for me, Oly sensors work better for me while I'm sure we've many pple who will definitely swear by their Pana bodies.
Agrivar
Senior Member
This is my opinion. When olympus went with the latest Sony sensor in the EM5, Panasonic was probably caught off guard. For those who are not familiar with the history, olympus used to buy panasonic sensors exclusively and up to the 3rd gen (ep3, epl3 ) etc, they were still using older 12mpx panasonic sensors. Up to the Gh2, that was the best sensor in m4/3 land but panny didn't want to share. So (this next part is pure conjecture), the licensing agreement with panny ended and oly went to source a better sensor. When the, Em5 was launched panny did not know how to respond as their best 16mpx sensor at that point couldn't complete. So they went with the same sony sensor and that is in the GH3. Now the gx7 is one year later and the sensor in the GX7 was the one originally supposed to be in the Gh3.. Just that it wasn't ready when the GH3 was launched. But that also means that the gx7 is only close to the sensor in the Em5/GH3 but may or may not beat it.. But it most definitely cannot compare to the newer sony sensor in the Em1. Basically panny is too far back in sensors and they should just go with sony sensors in future..
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Wrong conjecture. Just to put things right, G6/GF6 and GH3/GX7 sensors are different.
E-PL5/ E-PL6 is using the same sensor as E-M5/ E-P5. GH3 is essentially a similar sensor, according to DXO and review sites, just different engine.
GX7 in terms of still image is better than GH3, and the sensor is improved over the GH3 as well.
Anyhows, let's wait for independent sites like DXO to verify? We can even ask our friendly CS admin to do the tests, ha. If the noise is significantly bad, can always feedback to the engineers to get them to look at it
Agrivar
Senior Member
Wrong conjecture. Just to put things right, G6/GF6 and GH3/GX7 sensors are different.
E-PL5/ E-PL6 is using the same sensor as E-M5/ E-P5. GH3 is essentially a similar sensor, according to DXO and review sites, just different engine.
GX7 in terms of still image is better than GH3, and the sensor is improved over the GH3 as well.
Anyhows, let's wait for independent sites like DXO to verify? We can even ask our friendly CS admin to do the tests, ha. If the noise is significantly bad, can always feedback to the engineers to get them to look at it
Nothing different to what i said. GH3/EPL5/EM5/EM2/EP5 use the same Sony Sensor
GF6/G5/G6 us older Panasonic Sensors. Based on the Tweaked GH2 sensor
GX7 uses the latest Panasonic Sensor that doesnt seem to be much better than the GH3/EM5... This is where i'm disagreeing with Zan82. The best sensor is now the EM1 Sensor. Reports say its better at high ISO by 1 stop or so vs EM5.
For the GX7, it seems to be on par based on Jpg comparisions (which could just mean Venus vs TruPic processing). I need full sized RAWs to compare.
Ha it's too misleading when you mention may or may not beat it (GX7 vs GH3), and "sensor not being ready" kind of talk, which is where I see the point to correct it.
GX7 is not tweaked GH2 sensor. Sigh. It is improved GH3 sensor. Which website gave you this idea anyway?
Notice I didn't in the comparison talk about the E-M1 simply because the models aren't out yet, with only sample sets being loaned/seeded out.
Anyways, as I just said, we can ask the friendly admins to do the tests Besides, my personal opinion is that honestly m43 brands need not compete straight on, but rather against alternatives sensors (vs APSC for eg).
Just my 2 cents here.
GX7 is not tweaked GH2 sensor. Sigh. It is improved GH3 sensor. Which website gave you this idea anyway?
Notice I didn't in the comparison talk about the E-M1 simply because the models aren't out yet, with only sample sets being loaned/seeded out.
Anyways, as I just said, we can ask the friendly admins to do the tests
Besides, my personal opinion is that honestly m43 brands need not compete straight on, but rather against alternatives sensors (vs APSC for eg). Just my 2 cents here.
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NazgulKing
Senior Member
Here's my suggestion: Long exposure will always yield some noise. It's an intrinsic problem with any camera be it Nikon, Olympus etc. thanks to thermal noise inherent in any digital sensor. Some have more noise than others. Panasonic might not have gotten around to figure it out, but here's a tip: go use Lightroom and reduce the noise etc. Taking control of the workflow yields better results most of the time.
f8 should be the right aperture for this lens. But the result is not acceptable, not sharp more like a photo taken in a hazy evening. The noise level at iso200 5 sec is bad. Anyway I just use GH3 as walk around video cam not for still image, it does require good lighting for good video footage.
NazgulKing
Senior Member
There's another thing, was the IS switched on?
I think it's just underexposed. You have to play with the exposure at night. Here is a handheld shot at ISO 6400 of a similar scene (not GX7). JPEG denoised.
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On sensors, I don't find any difference between in dynamic range or low light ability for the first APS-C DSLR I bought in 2009, the very plasticky Pentax KX (low end about S$600 with kit lens) and the E-M5 or GX7 
In fact, the KX sensor may be marginally better than both the EM-5 and GX7 in low light.
So why is an almost 4 year old sensor being compared with the latest and greatest from Panasonic and Olympus? Because interestingly, sensor tech doesn't seem to have improved that much since 2009 and the KX had the first generation Sony Exmor sensor which the OMD adopted 2 years later and which Panasonic has finally equaled. The KX was my reference point (It's sensor was amazing compared to existing DSLR sensors) so when M43 came out, I found the M43 sensors very inferior to my KX and had no interest in M43 until the E-M5 was released. Finally, there was a small M43 camera that equaled the KX in low light ability and dynamic range. Another 18 months later, Panasonic has done it too!
Sensor tech has improved a little, but M43 sensors are smaller than APS-C, so it's taken a while for smaller M43 sensors to equal a 4 year old Sony design that was a revolution for DSLRs. We await Sony and the other designers to make another breakthrough like Exmor for the next level. Until then most cameras APS-C or M43 will have very similar image quality in terms of dynamic range and low light ability, even 4-year old APS-C designs. I expect the E-M1's sensor to finally equal the KX's four year old design because it is higher tech and needs to be to compensate for it's size difference.
I'll be quite interested in the coming Sony NEX full frame to see if there has been a breakthrough. While NEX lenses are larger and uglier than the svelte M43 designs, they are just as light. For me, its more about weight than lens size so as long as the camera and lens combo is light, I'm happy even if the lens is a little bigger.
In fact, the KX sensor may be marginally better than both the EM-5 and GX7 in low light.So why is an almost 4 year old sensor being compared with the latest and greatest from Panasonic and Olympus? Because interestingly, sensor tech doesn't seem to have improved that much since 2009 and the KX had the first generation Sony Exmor sensor which the OMD adopted 2 years later and which Panasonic has finally equaled. The KX was my reference point (It's sensor was amazing compared to existing DSLR sensors) so when M43 came out, I found the M43 sensors very inferior to my KX and had no interest in M43 until the E-M5 was released. Finally, there was a small M43 camera that equaled the KX in low light ability and dynamic range. Another 18 months later, Panasonic has done it too!
Sensor tech has improved a little, but M43 sensors are smaller than APS-C, so it's taken a while for smaller M43 sensors to equal a 4 year old Sony design that was a revolution for DSLRs. We await Sony and the other designers to make another breakthrough like Exmor for the next level. Until then most cameras APS-C or M43 will have very similar image quality in terms of dynamic range and low light ability, even 4-year old APS-C designs. I expect the E-M1's sensor to finally equal the KX's four year old design because it is higher tech and needs to be to compensate for it's size difference.
I'll be quite interested in the coming Sony NEX full frame to see if there has been a breakthrough. While NEX lenses are larger and uglier than the svelte M43 designs, they are just as light. For me, its more about weight than lens size so as long as the camera and lens combo is light, I'm happy even if the lens is a little bigger.
GX7 is selling well on Amazon. E-M1 is selling well too, but E-M5 seems to have slipped
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-...ectronics/3109924011/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_3_281052
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-...ectronics/3109924011/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_3_281052
Where is e-p5? Not selling well...even slipped below old e-m5.
Anthony Lee
Senior Member
On sensors, I don't find any difference between in dynamic range or low light ability for the first APS-C DSLR I bought in 2009, the very plasticky Pentax KX (low end about S$600 with kit lens) and the E-M5 or GX7
So why is an almost 4 year old sensor being compared with the latest and greatest from Panasonic and Olympus? Because interestingly, sensor tech doesn't seem to have improved that much since 2009 and the KX had the first generation Sony Exmor sensor which the OMD adopted 2 years later and which Panasonic has finally equaled. The KX was my reference point (It's sensor was amazing compared to existing DSLR sensors) so when M43 came out, I found the M43 sensors very inferior to my KX and had no interest in M43 until the E-M5 was released. Finally, there was a small M43 camera that equaled the KX in low light ability and dynamic range. Another 18 months later, Panasonic has done it too!
Sensor tech has improved a little, but M43 sensors are smaller than APS-C, so it's taken a while for smaller M43 sensors to equal a 4 year old Sony design that was a revolution for DSLRs. We await Sony and the other designers to make another breakthrough like Exmor for the next level. Until then most cameras APS-C or M43 will have very similar image quality in terms of dynamic range and low light ability, even 4-year old APS-C designs. I expect the E-M1's sensor to finally equal the KX's four year old design because it is higher tech and needs to be to compensate for it's size difference.
I'll be quite interested in the coming Sony NEX full frame to see if there has been a breakthrough. While NEX lenses are larger and uglier than the svelte M43 designs, they are just as light. For me, its more about weight than lens size so as long as the camera and lens combo is light, I'm happy even if the lens is a little bigger.
The NEX 5N also has the same sensor as the Kx and the very popular K5, which I owned for a short while. Apart from adding phase detect, are current sensors so much better, I don't know, but if it's any better than the 5N sensor, it's going to be good enough for me, be it Pana or Sony.
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