Newbie question on camcorders -- DVD and MiniTapes.. Pros and Cons?

[alvinsclee]

You are absolutely right about the timecode! Hey, do I know you somewhere? (don't tell me you are my high school teacher... I've already forgotten how my teachers looked like... those were years ago, haha)

Hmmm... I wonder if HDD camcorders have 'timecode', or equivalent, recorded?

 

[David]

Hey guys, Thanks yet again for all the useful comments...

I posted a new question but there isn't any reply... Is there any shop say in Sim Lim or elsewhere that sells entry level mini DV camcorders for a good price?

Thanks!!!

 

[DXNMedia]

You are absolutely right about the timecode! Hey, do I know you somewhere? (don't tell me you are my high school teacher... I've already forgotten how my teachers looked like... those were years ago, haha)

Hmmm... I wonder if HDD camcorders have 'timecode', or equivalent, recorded?

I think they should have it because instead of recording the DV stream data into tape, the DV stream is recorded as data onto HDD.
If the HDD cam is running MPEG2 compression, then I cannot say much about having timecode info.

As far as I've experienced, the 'Firestore' type of HDD capture functions like tape.


And for the teacher thing....hmmm....
Perhaps the same teacher taught us before if you've worked in the TV/broadcast industry?
Mr. Sebsatian Tan rings a bell?


Don't think I've taught anyone from outside yet...usually only train up internal staff.
But do have intentions to setup some courses to teach advanced broadcast video mastering.
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[alvinsclee]

DXNMedia - I was with the station from 1988 till 1996. Started with lighting team in drama studios, ending as senior technical producer at news studio. Was there during the startup of the original AM Singapore and 早安您好 (involved in both of them). Yes, that name certainly rings a bell.

David - I can't really help you there because I have not been keeping up with the prices or the shops around SLS.

 

[DXNMedia]

DXNMedia - I was with the station from 1988 till 1996. Started with lighting team in drama studios, ending as senior technical producer at news studio. Was there during the startup of the original AM Singapore and ???? (involved in both of them). Yes, that name certainly rings a bell.

David - I can't really help you there because I have not been keeping up with the prices or the shops around SLS.

Sorry for the off topic discussion ah.... I was with them for only a short period of time as video editor, then left for further studies and doing part time/freelancing for them...that was way past your era in the year 2000.
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[alvinsclee]

Sorry for the off topic discussion ah.... I was with them for only a short period of time as video editor, then left for further studies and doing part time/freelancing for them...that was way past your era in the year 2000.

Off-topic: Haha, so I belong to your sifu's era ... call me 师叔 (master-uncle)

On-topic: Yes, if everything from the DV data goes straight into the harddisk, I believe that timecode should be available (analogous to EXIF tagged to picture files from digital photos).

 

[DXNMedia]

Off-topic: Haha, so I belong to your sifu's era ... call me ?? (master-uncle)

On-topic: Yes, if everything from the DV data goes straight into the harddisk, I believe that timecode should be available (analogous to EXIF tagged to picture files from digital photos).

?,??. heheheheh...i think u belong to the era who knows what they're doing to video technically.....the current group of people in the place I know that are technically good are the OB crew.


Sad to say, the newer generation of people in the media industry have been quite ???(Half bucket of water).

I've been quite sick of fixing up people's job for broadcast for the last few years, and the issues seem to be getting worse nowadays. Seriously lacking in broadcast & production quality, but nobody cares.

80s to mid-90s era of TV have been the best in terms of quality despite using old analog technology with tube cameras that streaked when panned thru studio lights.. ;p


Back to on-topic discussion, I've just pulled up one of my sources from a client, and they're from DVD camera. no sorts of metadata that I can pull out, and I have to rip MPEG2 to .mov or avi for editing. high visibility of compression artefacts, and when you output your video after editing, you're technically going to go through another 'generation' of re-compression.

In analog video technology, we call this generation loss. In digital, it's recompression and you lose details and video info at every pass of rendering. :nono:

Although DV is also compressed video, it is a much better compression algorithm as compared to MPEG2.
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[DXNMedia]

Hmm why my chinese text dun come out?
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[alvinsclee]

... the current group of people in the place I know that are technically good are the OB crew...

Those who have gone through battlefields make better military strategists than those who 纸上谈兵 (play wargames on paper).

... quite sick of fixing up people's job for broadcast for the last few years, and the issues seem to be getting worse nowadays. Seriously lacking in broadcast & production quality, but nobody cares...

Ya, more cost-effective to do it right in the first place... corrective measures are expensive! As the old adage goes: "Prevention is better than cure"

... 80s to mid-90s era of TV have been the best in terms of quality despite using old analog technology with tube cameras that streaked when panned thru studio lights...

You are making me feel nostalgic for those good old times. Now I can really feel for audiophiles who still love their tube amplifiers.

... I have to rip MPEG2 to .mov or avi for editing. high visibility of compression artefacts, and when you output your video after editing, you're technically going to go through another 'generation' of re-compression.

In analog video technology, we call this generation loss. In digital, it's recompression and you lose details and video info at every pass of rendering. :nono:

Although DV is also compressed video, it is a much better compression algorithm as compared to MPEG2.

Agree... regardless of analog video or digital video, as long as there is removal of parts of original data in any process and introduction of extraneous noise/artefacts along the information flow, the final product will be 一代不如一代 (every generation worse than its preceding one). DV is still the minimum standard to go for in basic digital video processing.

 

[DXNMedia]

Hmmmm.....10bit uncompressed Hi-definition footage lagi better....ZERO compression.
But HDD space....

For most of my broadcast quality work, i usually use 10bit 4:2:2, which is considered uncompressed. Digital betacam quality for input & output via Serial Digital Interface (SDI).
Highest level of video quality for standard definition tv....most people i know only work at 8bit coz harddisk need to be fast enough to stream 10bit data at full framerate. :thumbsup:

But usually for end consumer work like weddings, corporate, events, etc... where video is mastered to DVD for delivery, i work in DVCAM/DV...good enough because at the end of the day, end product will be compressed video...

It's like shooting at 10megapixel setting with a Nikon D2x but final delivery is for a 320x240 web picture at ebay.com......simply overkill & waste harddisk space, waste time rendering, & processing effects......hehehehehehe



As for the "prevention better than cure" quote, i think it's more like you "pay now or pay later". Most production houses' mentality is that i can cheap out on production, cheap out on getting good cameraperson, cheap out on getting experienced editors, but at the end of the day, they have to pay pros to fix things up especially for broadcast material. :bsmilie:

But hey, i shouldn't complain much coz at the end of the day, i earn $$$.... :bsmilie:

 

[SolBadGuy]

wow the gurus have spoken.. learned so much from you guys! thanks!

anyway... i dun usually reuse tapes.. cos i might need the rushes another time.. even after my sch project, i would usually keep it as there are usually a lot of funny blunders and bloopers! perhaps one day my coursemates n i will edit all the funny NGs n stuff together to preserve our memories for the several productions we have worked on together.. :thumbsup:

memories are priceless... :heart: especially those when u see ur frens in awkward moments.. :devil: