New Project: Frugal Film Development

[raytoei]

Staying with my in-laws means I can't do traditional film development.

So, i am going to start a new thread (this) on Frugal Film Development.

Frugal means space saving as well as chemical saving or time-saving.
The risk is that the film will not be developed properly either because
of a lack of chemicals due to film sticking or because the agitation is
not done properly. Anyway, that will be tradeoff of being frugal: film
quality.

Some ideas of being frugal:

a. In-Cassette film development
b. Rondinax-type tank development

in in-cassette film development, Fuji used to sell a "Darkless" film
development kit which comprises of a mini-tank to hold the cassette,
8ml of developer, 7ml of fixer. Naiwa also sells a color C-41 version
of the same concept (you can search japanexposures.com if you want
to buy one).

However, in-cassette film development does not work very well for 36 exposure
film, and is better for 12 or 24 exposures rolls.

So here is a plan:

* Shoot a self-rolled 12 exposure roll of film.
* Variable: put it into a suitable container, (a) experiment with film canister container (b) a larger bowl.
* Variable: Development time is an unknown, i will use Rodinal in 1+50 or 1+25 dilution
* Agitation method, use a stick to twist and turn the canister
* Wash / flush with tape water
* Fixer 5-10 mins
* Wash / flush with tape water

Materials: i need film canisters and i need a fixer. already have film and developer hidden somewhere at ExtraSpace.

.... to be continued ....

raytoei
(pls share your experiences if you have done this before)

 

[raytoei]

so....

i had time today, and i took the rodinal and a pack of fixer powder from ExtraSpace....

i rolled the polypan f iso 50 film in a film canister and i shot 12 exposure with -2 stop, -1 stop, correct exposure, +1 stop, +2 stop

this is what i did:

* I taped the leader film to the side of the canister.

the cassette on the left is a dummy used to measure the amount of liquid to be used.

* i used dilution of 1ml of Rodinal to 14ml of water. ( i sort of tested with an empty canister into a film container, it takes around 20ml).

* i developed for 4 mins in normal tap water (presumably around 28-31C):

* used the chop sticks to move clockwise until tension then anti-clockwise until tension
* I did this for 02 minutes then flip the canister over and repeated the procedure...

just to be sure, i capped the whole container and vigorously shook it a couple of times
before i dumped the content into a sink and rinsed it.

I then remembered i didnt mix the powdered fixer yet....after a frantic 10 minutes, i mixed
some fixer and fill up the film container with the roll. capped it and shook it for around 3 minutes.
I then found it very milky, a sign that fixer was insufficient, i then put it back in to the fixer and waited
for another 2-3 mins.

rinse and wash...

 

[raytoei]

still drying...i can see uneven development towards the end of the roll.

will scan then make my comments and observations...


most interesting...

 

[raytoei]

okay...here is a scanned image. the only consistency i see is uneven development, very lomo...

some additional observations:

* okay as first attempt. but i would try to read up and be more disciplined in my agitation as
this is the most difficult part of the development.

* I would probably use 20ml instead of 15ml of developer solution.

i can't think of a reason to do this beyond an intellectual / hobbyist exercise

I have ordered the fujifilm darkless kit, lets see if i can fare better with a kit.

raytoei

 

[Shadowleong]

Hmm quite an ingenious idea

 

[MagnumLite]

Very spartan and McGyver like kind of processing!

 

[zgim80]

Was talking to Weihsuan about saving developer and I thought the way jobo kits have got a pretty good concept of filling on the bottom portion of a conventional developing tank and giving constant agitation by rotating the tank on its side.

Was thinking about an automated agitator that can do the same while using a smaller container.

 

[losheng]

You can do this with the Paterson tank. There are various rollers/agitators made for this purpose: Uniroller, Beseler Rollers, Premier and Chromega, among many others. They normally go for USD20-50 a piece on ebay. These guys also have their own range of development tanks and reels. If you use the Paterson 2-reel drum on these rollers, you'll need to plug the tank into a PVC pipe to extend its height, so that the tank can be rolled on its sides.

However, the savings in chemical is minimal if you use the 2 reel tank. It makes more sense when you use the larger tanks. I used this method before switching over to Phototherm.

The stainless steel tanks may work even better, as it uses less chemistry than Paterson's tanks.

 

[nstclicks]

How about just using a stainless steel tank ? 250 ml of diafine A and B will fit in two tupperwares and can be used forever and ever. Same with fixer. So in princple, you could have an entire developing kit with 3 soft drink bottles (please remember to label them as chemicals !), a funnel and the tank. It'll all fit in a regular backpack with room to spare for a change bag, clips to hang-dry film etc. The only other utility you need is water for rinsing. The Ilford wash method will theoretically take less than a litre, plus a bit more for washing, so that's a fairly frugal development.

 

[raytoei]

i think all the comments are valid here.
one thing i wanted to do was NOT to use a
dark bag and where possible, minimize the
numbers of steps needed.

i ordered a Rondinax 35U tank. this allows one
to put in a film canister, tag the film leader and do
development without a dark bag. hope to report
some better results when i arrives eventually.

raytoei

 

[zgim80]

Saw this.

I thought the spirit of invention is really there. And like the jobo, less chemicals will be used.

Maybe someone can design and table print one?

 

[mamypoko]

I do stand with HC110 1:100 in my Paterson Tank.

Lazy to load film in dark bag so these days I do it under my blanket in my room, windows have double layers of curtains so its dark even in the day.

Probably one of the cheapest solutions, the Paterson tank is pretty cheap anyway.

 

[raytoei]

My Rondinax 35U Tank arrived yesterday.

Today I had a chance to use it.

just a recap:

* no dark bag needed, just load the film canister
* attach the film leader to the spool clips
* close the lid, wind the winder, use the built-in cutter to
detach the canister from the film
* pour in the developer solution at 200ml
* constant agitation is required as the solution is quite little in a cramped tank
* usual process, water-bath->fixer-> wash -> Hang to dry.

The film i used today was the Polypan f 50, i used the Ilford Pan F 50 timing
at 20C for 11mins. I converted to 30C room temperature timing at 30C for 6mins
(this is a guesstimate, no rocket science).

The developer used was Rodinal, i used 1+50 dilution.
at 200ml soup, I only needed 4ml of Rodinal.

Besides the usual dust spots, i did not notice anything unusual to the negatives.
Too early to have any conclusion but definitely worth exploring further.

raytoei

 

[lualua]

Hey dude, just wondering how is the grain size? I've always had issues with grain size when it comes to room temperature.

 

[raytoei]

yeah, grains are bigger than 20c development. i also like to think that it is dependent of developer.

eg. High Acutance developer like Rodinal = more grains But Sharper.

extreme opposite is Microdol-X, super fine grain but not Sharp.

here is the example from above, Polypan f with Rodinal. It is more grainy than normal Ilford Pan F.

but it looks sharp:

click here to see the resized 1280x768 version: http://retro.ms11.net/polypanf-rodinal.jpg

 

[raytoei]

Petrol Pump
Contax T with Polypan 50
Developed in Rodinal 1+50 dilution
for 6mins at 30C

 

[zgim80]

wow think the rondinax looks good! perhaps more tests? 200 ml is a pretty good start, any chance that you can do with less?

In a sense, the rondinax only cuts out the dark bag process. The bulk of the equipment are the chemical bottles and that can't seem to reduced much.

 

[raytoei]

my Fujifilm Darkless arrived!

errr...anyone knows japanese ?

found this link: Google Translate

will shoot a roll from the included 3 rolls of neopan 100 ss.

hoot!

raytoei

 

[Riotbmx]

Would love to see the results from the Neopan SS. I've only shot Acros before

 

[hortwizer]

Hi Rayteoi, any updates on the darkless kit ?