need help with underdeveloped tri-X 400

[squelch]

Hi all,

i'm having some problems with an underdeveloped roll of tri-X 400. My original intention was to push process this roll by 1-stop (ie, ASA 800), and hence, I used:

1) TMax developer diluted in a 1:4 ratio with distilled water. At 20 degrees celcius, 7 and a half minutes development time

2) Kodak indicator stop bath. dilution ratio 1:63 with distilled water. 30 seconds.

3) Hypam fixer for 2 min 50 secs.

The film appeared greyish after developing, and I was told that it is underdeveloped. However, seeing by the pictures that I got it seems that it is overdeveloped. Here are some pictures:


IMG_9533 by squelchable, on Flickr


IMG_9534 by squelchable, on Flickr

This are some sample pictures of the film scanned in:


sample 1 by squelchable, on Flickr


sample 3 by squelchable, on Flickr


sample 2 by squelchable, on Flickr

Would really appreciate any help from seniors here who might be able to point out my mistakes in the development process so that I can get a better development next time!

 

[squelch]

Hi! Thanks for the reply! Erm, I'm not sure which side is the film base, I'm assuming that its the side away from the glossy side of the film?

Unfortunately, I threw away the film lead so I can't look at it now, but yes the KODAK 400TX is dark black

Based on my current results, I should increase development time right? About how much longer should I develop for?

 

[Achim Reh]

Are you able to measure the maximal density of the negative ? I agree, it looks underdeveloped, but you can improve the quality by adjusting your scanner.

 

[wootsk]

From the film, it seems that the push is quite successful.(Petty blown and can get more obvious with editing) What I suspect to be the issue is the fixer never do a good job. I am not sure if the negative photo is corrected, but from the negative photo posted (Well someone who finally post a photo of the negative with border rather than a scan / edited scan when asking such question), the film border is not clear as what it is suppose to be. This should be an issue where the suppose to remove silver fixer did not remove all of it. What I suggest is to do a good scan for the current film and correct it.

Then if you want to try, you can put it through a freshly mixed fixer after a simple water wash. (Not too long, 1 - 1.5 mins should do it)

 

[squelch]

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry I'm kinda new to film so pardon me for all the questions

If in future I want to shoot on ASA 800, what developing time should i use?

If its an issue with the fixer, should I let it fix for a longer duration?

Also, how to go about measuring the maximum density of the film?

 

[wootsk]

Thanks for all the replies. Sorry I'm kinda new to film so pardon me for all the questions

If in future I want to shoot on ASA 800, what developing time should i use?

If its an issue with the fixer, should I let it fix for a longer duration?

Also, how to go about measuring the maximum density of the film?

I am not sure if it is a fixer issue, as I am not looking at the actual negative, but if it looks clouded with the border unclear it could be the below 4.
1. Badly fogged film
2. Film spoil
3. Underdeveloped and underexposed photo.
4. Fixer issue.

Since the first 3 cannot be solved on the film after developing, I recommended you to hope it is the 4th reason which still can be solved.

You will need a densitometer to measure the density for the film. You won't really get one for a hobbyist.

Are you able to measure the maximal density of the negative ? I agree, it looks underdeveloped, but you can improve the quality by adjusting your scanner.

I doubt he has a densitometer and a density step wedge for calibration.

 

[catchlights]

is it a fresh fixer?

 

[zguy]

Hi all,

i'm having some problems with an underdeveloped roll of tri-X 400. My original intention was to push process this roll by 1-stop (ie, ASA 800), and hence, I used:

1) TMax developer diluted in a 1:4 ratio with distilled water. At 20 degrees celcius, 7 and a half minutes development time

i refer to the Massive Development Chart, it stated 6 mins at yr dilution n temp for ISO 400-800 : Digitaltruth Photo - The Massive Dev Chart B&W Film Development Database . seems to be a case of over development.

since you r scanning, just do a Levels adjustment in the scanning software or photoshop.

 

[squelch]

is it a fresh fixer?

Nope I don't think it's a fresh fixer. May have been opened for a couple of months already.

 

[catchlights]

Nope I don't think it's a fresh fixer. May have been opened for a couple of months already.

that explain all, if you soak film in fixer for 5 mins and the film still not clear, can throw away the fixer.

don't recycle fixer, unless you process film very frequently, once it is weak, just throw away.

 

[nstclicks]

Hi all,

sample 3 by squelchable, on Flickr

Are you sure it's not just the scanning ? The left border looks too grey. Even if it's over/under developed that should be black. What scanner/program are you using ? are you able to set the black point and white point ? Sample 1 and 3 looks like they could be fixed be rescanning. What exposure settings were you using ? Looks like you were using flash. If so, then an over-exposed foreground and under-exposed background are quite possible too. You'd have to balance the two during scanning.

 

[squelch]

Are you sure it's not just the scanning ? The left border looks too grey. Even if it's over/under developed that should be black. What scanner/program are you using ? are you able to set the black point and white point ? Sample 1 and 3 looks like they could be fixed be rescanning. What exposure settings were you using ? Looks like you were using flash. If so, then an over-exposed foreground and under-exposed background are quite possible too. You'd have to balance the two during scanning.

Its an Epson scanner my school has. Unfortunately it's the default Mac Image Capture that I'm using probably that's why it turned out like that.

 

[squelch]

that explain all, if you soak film in fixer for 5 mins and the film still not clear, can throw away the fixer.

don't recycle fixer, unless you process film very frequently, once it is weak, just throw away.

just to clarify, I diluted Ilford Hypam fixer with 4 parts water. 1:4. forming a working solution of 375ml for one roll of film. And fix for about 2min 50 secs. Is this correct?

 

[lordpain]

the dilution is correct. but i'd reckon your fixing time is too short. if you still have some fixer, dump the negatives back in for further fixing and see if the film clears. Thereafter, do the usual rinse and dry. lastly, do your scan again.

my judgement is that your film is properly developed, but was not fixed properly. this causes the scanner to not adequately extract the data.

I usually soak my films in room temperature illford fixer for at least minutes with agitation for the first minute. after that, i will leave it for a few minutes while i go do my chores and come back for it after i am done. simple.

 

[wootsk]

Haiz...

It makes me wonder who people are troubleshooting developing issue by looking at the scan instead of the negative? Go shoot some digital instead ba.

 

[kgston]

Just to check, is the film expired??

 

[nstclicks]

Try refixing this roll as suggested. Don't get discouraged. For future rolls, use the fixer test as described here fixer exhaustion

Are you using a negative adapter or transparency adapter to scan ? If you are just placing on top of the scaner, the scan is bound to be bad.

I've taken the liberty of adjusting the levels in your image. It's not really that bad, considering it's pushed and you were shooting at night. I'm sure it can be improved by rescanning and maybe refixing.

Click for larger version

 

[squelch]

Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. Indeed it was a problem with the fixer. I went back and re-fix and now the negative is no longer cloudy and is much more translucent. It turned out that the fixer I was using in the school lab was a working solution. I initially thought it was pure fixer so I diluted it even more. Hence the problem.

Will post up pictures of the film once it is dried.

nstclicks: I adjusted the levels myself too. The negative adapter is the plastic tray to load the negative to be placed on the flatbed scanner? If so, then yes, I used that.