Mod: sales gone bad or libel?

[petetherock]

Dear Mods.

In the kopitiam forum, we have seen a rash of posts about XXX being cheated, or a deal gone sour - "fly aeroplane" in bad Singlish.

Then the accused comes back with a different story.

We also see posts of a member who found service in XXX shop to be wanting despite many others giving praise to the same places.

The thread starters will be able to hide behind the veil of annonymity that a forum offers, but this is a kind of libel isn't it? When there are accusations which cannot be substantiated.

Perhaps we should have a cooling period or restrict it to personal messages rather than have fierce quarrels online about who is right or wrong.

I have my own personal experience with people who did not turn up, low ball etc or bad service.

Life goes on.

To post about another member after one experience may not be called for.

On the hand, if a cheat appears consistently, we should banned him.

Cheers

 

[vince123123]

I don't see anything wrong nor why the Mods now have to play the role of libel police (if in fact there was libel).

If the victims feel aggrieved, they can file a libel suit and the administrators have proven that they will assist any legal action by preservation of evidence. Be advised that there's no veil of anonymity when legal action is involved; each and every poster here can be tracked right up to the individual human being posting the post.

But to ask the mods to make a call on whether a comment is libelous or not; is to place an undue responsibility upon them.

Acusations that cannot be substantiated will die a natural death, as the audience can easily see what's the truth behind them.

Dear Mods.

In the kopitiam forum, we have seen a rash of posts about XXX being cheated, or a deal gone sour - "fly aeroplane" in bad Singlish.

Then the accused comes back with a different story.

We also see posts of a member who found service in XXX shop to be wanting despite many others giving praise to the same places.

The thread starters will be able to hide behind the veil of annonymity that a forum offers, but this is a kind of libel isn't it? When there are accusations which cannot be substantiated.

Perhaps we should have a cooling period or restrict it to personal messages rather than have fierce quarrels online about who is right or wrong.

I have my own personal experience with people who did not turn up, low ball etc or bad service.

Life goes on.

To post about another member after one experience may not be called for.

On the hand, if a cheat appears consistently, we should banned him.

Cheers

 

[HeiPiGu]

I don't see anything wrong nor why the Mods now have to play the role of libel police (if in fact there was libel).

If the victims feel aggrieved, they can file a libel suit and the administrators have proven that they will assist any legal action by preservation of evidence. Be advised that there's no veil of anonymity when legal action is involved; each and every poster here can be tracked right up to the individual human being posting the post.

But to ask the mods to make a call on whether a comment is libelous or not; is to place an undue responsibility upon them.

Acusations that cannot be substantiated will die a natural death, as the audience can easily see what's the truth behind them.

I agree with Vince's comments. Forum, digital age, free speech. Why must police and restrict?

 

[petetherock]

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5365786&postcount=62

Conclusion there will not be.

So let me moderate by closing this thread and post some questions for members to judge for themselves,

1. Title of this thread is doubtful cause it can also back fire ie is it a case of unforgiving seller vs bad buyer?

2. Is it a case of cancellation of deal 2hrs before hand constitute one a bad buyer? in B&S ?

3. Is demanding a high compensation for no show justifiable ?

I feel the members should just PM each other and sort out their differences rather than just labelling the other party as bad seller/buyers etc

Anyway members can judge for themselves who they can deal from this episode.

Me, I am no judge but just moderating and closing this thread seems to be the best way ahead.

This is good policing for a bad seller vs bad buyer thread.

 

[vince123123]

In that thread, both sides had already given their views, with not much new points to add at that point; hence thread closure at that time is not unjustifiable.

What I'm reading based on your first post is that you are calling for a total banning of such threads giving feedback; which is totally different from the thread closure in that case.

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5365786&postcount=62
This is good policing for a bad seller vs bad buyer thread.

 

[night86mare]

i also echo what other members feel, that there should be no policing.

policing should be done when there are no morally grey areas. for example, in the past when i called for greater education and plausible policing (if it came to that), it was because it is clearly , clearly wrong (no matter how you put it or view it) for a photographer to approach a model advertising for modelling services for anything more than that. i don't suppose i have to elaborate.

here, i think, both sides should present their case, and then the moderators should just close the thread, and tell them to settle it among themselves. the way people behave in public and the way they behave in private *can* and *will* differ quite a bit. when it is done in public, the ego factor comes into play like a elephant dancing around.

 

[vince123123]

That said, I think threads should be reopened or new threads started if either party requests so; particularly if attempts at private communication or settlement is met by stonewalling by the other party.

In fact, I reckon that most threads have already gone through private communications; and it is failure of a private settlement which led the thread being created; hence I'm always wondering why there is a call for private settlement when in most cases, that would have already been attempted, and failed; which is why the aggrieved party is now taking to a public forum.

 

[night86mare]

In fact, I reckon that most threads have already gone through private communications; and it is failure of a private settlement which led the thread being created; hence I'm always wondering why there is a call for private settlement when in most cases, that would have already been attempted, and failed; which is why the aggrieved party is now taking to a public forum.

the question is, what do they seek to achieve by sorting it out in public?

i think both parties stand to gain nothing from washing their "dirty linen" for all to see. if they couldn't agree in private, what makes them think that getting people to comment will make a difference?

just look at that last thread just closed.. also sama sama. i have never ever seen a thread of that fashion that came to a peaceful conclusion.. even if there are examples, i am sure they are few and far between.

like i said, taking it in public only fuels the ego. people post it to get others to "agree with them" and feel vindicated.. or to just vent frustration for a while.. but eventually, the former means nothing, the latter is more of a fire and forget nature. :bsmilie:

 

[vince123123]

There are several aims to achieve when a stonewalled party brings things into the public light:

1. Where remedies can be attained (ie things like no-show will not fall under this category, but things like misselling a product for another will), it pressures the other party to take steps to remedy or face the risk of loss of reputation.

2. Even if the other party does not mind the loss of reputation, it serves the deterrent purpose to other would-be perpetrators that their acts may be publicised. By stifling discussion, it would lead would-be perps to be emboldened as they know that their misdeeds will not be published.

3. Publicising a misdeed would help would-be victims to be smarter and lessen the chance of a similar misdeed occurring.

4. On occassion, publishing a misdeed concerning B by A may lead to C also saying "hey that happened to me too!" and then it can be realised that there is actually more than one person whom B has done the misdeed towards.

Such complaints are no different from aggrieved parties writing to the Straits Times to seek redress. Even if redress is impossible, it at least serves a future deterrent to would-be perps and raises awareness about the issue so that would-be victims gain knowledge.

For example, in view of numerous Bobman threads, he is now banned. If everything is sorted privately and threads deleted/shutdown/not allowed to exist, people will never know and he will never be banned. It is all a matter of degree how much benefit there is to airing things in public, but one thing is for sure, there is a benefit.

Please note that the above are discussions in general, and not to the specific thread referenced.

the question is, what do they seek to achieve by sorting it out in public?

i think both parties stand to gain nothing from washing their "dirty linen" for all to see. if they couldn't agree in private, what makes them think that getting people to comment will make a difference?

just look at that last thread just closed.. also sama sama. i have never ever seen a thread of that fashion that came to a peaceful conclusion.. even if there are examples, i am sure they are few and far between.

like i said, taking it in public only fuels the ego. people post it to get others to "agree with them" and feel vindicated.. or to just vent frustration for a while.. but eventually, the former means nothing, the latter is more of a fire and forget nature. :bsmilie:

 

[Rangefinder_fan]

If everything is restricted to personal messages, how does the crowd then know that a cheat is 'consistent'?
Unless we have a universal 'inbox' or something, where everyone can post. Wait, thats called a forum..

My take is to let the crowd fix itself. If someone is bitching about something, let the crowd decide if the comments are fair or not.

Dear Mods.

<snip>
Perhaps we should have a cooling period or restrict it to personal messages rather than have fierce quarrels online about who is right or wrong.

<snip>



On the hand, if a cheat appears consistently, we should banned him.

Cheers

 

[liarliar]

Dear Mods.

In the kopitiam forum, we have seen a rash of posts about XXX being cheated, or a deal gone sour - "fly aeroplane" in bad Singlish.

Then the accused comes back with a different story.

We also see posts of a member who found service in XXX shop to be wanting despite many others giving praise to the same places.

The thread starters will be able to hide behind the veil of annonymity that a forum offers, but this is a kind of libel isn't it? When there are accusations which cannot be substantiated.

Perhaps we should have a cooling period or restrict it to personal messages rather than have fierce quarrels online about who is right or wrong.

I have my own personal experience with people who did not turn up, low ball etc or bad service.

Life goes on.

To post about another member after one experience may not be called for.

On the hand, if a cheat appears consistently, we should banned him.

Cheers

The mods here comes in many sizes and backgrounds. They may not all be trained or with the proper education enough to hold office like the government authorities managing a country. Also their job is to govern this forum. Like it or not their say is the call. If you do not find their methods proper you can always serve other photography forums for help or service.

 

[LomoPhotographer]

The mods here comes in many sizes and backgrounds. They may not all be trained or with the proper education enough to hold office like the government authorities managing a country. Also their job is to govern this forum. Like it or not their say is the call. If you do not find their methods proper you can always serve other photography forums for help or service.

Yea, that's sad to say, I must agree.
Though it is sad to say. Lol.

 

[Del_CtrlnoAlt]

The mods here comes in many sizes and backgrounds. They may not all be trained or with the proper education enough to hold office like the government authorities managing a country. Also their job is to govern this forum. Like it or not their say is the call. If you do not find their methods proper you can always serve other photography forums for help or service.

So moderators need to have Degree in Politics?

And sad to say, its not my JOB to govern this forum... neither is it my obligation... its a goodwill... If i'm paid by you, i'll treat u like king. So if i'm not paid, probably you should start treating me like 1 instead?

 

[Lomographer]

So moderators need to have Degree in Politics?

And sad to say, its not my JOB to govern this forum... neither is it my obligation... its a goodwill... If i'm paid by you, i'll treat u like king. So if i'm not paid, probably you should start treating me like 1 instead?

agree with DCA.

their mod status is a responsibilty not a job,

and there are quite a number of mods around here,

so as to make sure their decision is just.

 

[LomoPhotographer]

So moderators need to have Degree in Politics?

And sad to say, its not my JOB to govern this forum... neither is it my obligation... its a goodwill... If i'm paid by you, i'll treat u like king. So if i'm not paid, probably you should start treating me like 1 instead?

Nope. Neither do we need to.
You are a volunteer to be mod in this forum.
We are users in this forum. We dont pay each other so nobody should treat anybody like king.
In fact, treat everybody equally?

agree with DCA.

their mod status is a responsibilty not a job,

and there are quite a number of mods around here,

so as to make sure their decision is just.

Like I said, treat everybody equally? Cos not always the decision is correct.
:thumbsup:

 

[drakon09]

Nope. Neither do we need to.
You are a volunteer to be mod in this forum.
We are users in this forum. We dont pay each other so nobody should treat anybody like king.
In fact, treat everybody equally?


Like I said, treat everybody equally? Cos not always the decision is correct.
:thumbsup:

LomoPhotographer, the point you are making here is?

I would like to know the direction you are coming from in making these statements. Please clarify.

 

[nightwolf75]

hmm.. one lomographer, the other lomophotographer... why do i smell a rat? :think:

anyway, for those of you who like to "go lawyer" on the mods or pee at us every time a cheating/bad sale case comes up, can you pls read the FAQs? i think it has been mentioned upteenth time...

http://www.clubsnap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8466

if you have good reason to declare a fraud, call the police. then inform Darren or Edmund so that they can archive the thread for you in case of police investigation. CS is NOT the police.

 

[Lomographer]

hmm.. one lomographer, the other lomophotographer... why do i smell a rat? :think:

we two different people.

 

[night86mare]

LomoPhotographer, the point you are making here is?

I would like to know the direction you are coming from in making these statements. Please clarify.

i don't know, he seems to have many deep grievances.