Miss Singapore Universe

[Demosthenes]

I think what some of them are trying to say is – there are prettier girls in Singapore than those who enter local beauty pageants.

And what right do I have to say who is prettier and who not? Every right. The same right I have when I say black is black and white is white, the same right to differentiate between a poodle and a bulldog. This is the right to tell one thing from another, a basic human right. So the fact is, some of the contestants are ugly. So am I being insulting or demeaning? Nope, sorry, I am trying hard to be, but I’m not that human yet. “Beautiful” and “ugly” are simply two different words and definitions; there is no better or worse between them. To me, saying that a girl is ugly simply means she is not beautiful, whether she takes it as an insult or not is up to her. The thing is, why on earth would she take it as an insult? Wouldn’t it be much more of an insult if I were to lie to her and say that she is pretty? These girls join beauty contests because they have been lied to their whole life through, their moms, their dads, their friends have all told them that they are attractive, and so, “Hey! The whole world thinks I am beautiful! I’ll just join a beauty contest and walk home the winner!”. Delusion. There is simply no special advantage to being either pretty or ugly, just perceptions which are imposed on us since the day we are born.

As for some of these beauty contestants and my good friend William Hung, it does not take them any more courage than the contestants who are beautiful, and who can sing and dance. Are you saying that people who suck at in competitions deserve any more respect based on the fact that it took courage?

Lets take away anything that separates them from good contestants: William entered the competition because he believed he had a shot at winning, and so did the other contestants (who could sing and dance). Even if William did not believe he had a shot, he went for the experience or maybe just for a laugh, and so did many of the other contestants (who could sing and dance). At the end of it, William was kicked out and learned a Valuable Life Experience™ and so did the other contestants (who could sing and dance!). So at the end of the day, what makes William special other than the fact that he couldn’t sing and dance to save his life? If I were to enter a civil engineering competition (William’s field of studies) against William Hung -- he would have kicked my butt and maybe (who knows) spat in my face, but was I courageous or did I learn a Valuable Life Experience™ (other than the fact that I suck at civil engineering)? I seriously think not. I wouldn’t expect you to clap for me, and I wouldn’t be hurt if you were to laugh at me, because it would have been a joke. And I’d laugh with you.

 

[Godzilla Invades]

argh ... how shallow :what: ...

Beauty is defined in many different ways.

You need not have long legs, a perfect figure or porcelain skin to be defined as beautiful.

Each of those girls are beautiful in their own way. I would say a charming personality beats a pretty face anytime. A pretty face comes and goes.. but a charming personality goes a long way...

Whether or not they seem bimbotic, they joined the competition as they would just like the experience, and that glimmer of hope and exitement of joining a competition of such prestige and a chance to travel.

True, you might say, why join a competition if you do not have the looks? This is a very pessimistic view. Look at William Hung. He wanted to sing, he tried. He didn't make it and got laughed at. But at the end of day, he can say he tried.

Yes i agree. His singing was terrible and he totally messed up the dancing. He doesn't have the looks, so why join? Waste the judges' time?

Some of us laugh cruelly at him, but others respect and admire his courage to do something he stood for and at least he tried to fulfill that wish he has, and will not die regretting that he did not try.

He walked off quietly and perhaps sad that he didn't make it.. but he tried! As for those who kept arguing that they're good, they're the best.. they believe in themselves and think they're good enough to make the cut, however, it's a reality check as there are others who are simply better. But.. they still tried!

You might also argue, Miss Universe is an international pageant and standards are high.. so you should know your own limits.. blah blah... we've never won..

So would you rather Singapore is not represented at all? S-League may suck big time.. but at least they're trying and we have football clubs here. It's a start. That's where societies and people improve and soon we get better and better at it. It's a love for football .. to play with friends, or to play competitively.. why run them down like this?

I wouldn't deny that some of the contestants who entered the competition didn't meet up to expectations, but they must have had a reason to want to join. Maybe they needed the money, or maybe it was just for the experience, a stab at the chance, a step to fulfilling their dreams. If they don't win, they walk away and either they're given a reality check, or they improve on themselves or their lives from this failure .. and move on.

Well, to each their own, but that's my few cents worth. And to those who are joining some competition, good luck and i admire your courage.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Applauded...!

Anyway, those who still think about anybody being ugly ought to think twice. It's not about lying to them. It's an encouragement for them to be a better person. Lying? Now why would parents lie to their own daughters and sons?

As I mentioned earlier, it's not easy for them. Trust me. I have some friends who tried and failed and try again. Honestly speaking? At least they have the determination to try at least once. So what if you fail?

I can tell you William Hung walk out a very happy man. I am just guessing this stunt which William Hung did could be part of the publicity stunt by the American Idol themselves. A good way promote and talk about the show for months about this boy who could not sing, dance and act.

See, after so many moons, people around the world are still talking about him. Even in this beauty contest talk.........

Pinkishy, most guys go for look first. Personality second. This is how most local guys are anyway, shallow........sad.....

 

[Demosthenes]

Anyway, those who still think about anybody being ugly ought to think twice. It's not about lying to them. It's an encouragement for them to be a better person.

Better person? There you go, you've just become the voice of the majority that believe that ugly people need encouragement to be BETTER. Better how? Better like you? Like me? Like who? Why do they need to be "better" than who they are? In all likelyhood, they lead a fullfilling, if not already "better" life than you. They don't need you or anyone else for that matter to champion them.

 

[Godzilla Invades]

Better person? There you go, you've just become the voice of the majority that believe that ugly people need encouragement to be BETTER. Better how? Better like you? Like me? Like who? Why do they need to be "better" than who they are? In all likelyhood, they lead a fullfilling, if not already "better" life than you. They don't need you or anyone else for that matter to champion them.

*yawns...*

my eyes are tired....

me going to sleep to ZZzz........to get some "BEAUTY SLEEP"

 

[Demosthenes]

Lying? Now why would parents lie to their own daughters and sons?

Maybe you would profusely reject the possibility that your kids may be ugly, but there are others out there who can't. So what options do they have? Either they lie, or they shut up and change the subject.

If... just if, you had a physically ugly son, and he is smart, charming and just plain wonderful. But you know full well he is physically ugly. What if he were to ask you whether you thought he is physically unattractive? Would you tell him he is? If you don't you would be lying (again, just a fact, does not make it wrong). But then again, you would probably tell him that he is beautiful in his own way, that looks are not all that matters, and so on... but that wasn't his question, was it?

Don't you get it at all? Nobody is saying that physically attractive people have an edge over non-attractive one, except maybe you, since you think that ugly people need all the help they can get, and by suggesting that ugly people can learn to become better people by entering a contest. Nobody needs a defense from ANYONE if they can deal with it themselves.

 

[justarius]

Some of the comments you guys make really :nono: But it's a free world.... these sort of comments are quite inevitable, guess the girls taking part should be expecting this, cos there's no pleasing Singaporeans who are all expert commentators.

 

[Pinkishy]

Maybe you would profusely reject the possibility that your kids may be ugly, but there are others out there who can't. So what options do they have? Either they lie, or they shut up and change the subject.

If... just if, you had a physically ugly son, and he is smart, charming and just plain wonderful. But you know full well he is physically ugly. What if he were to ask you whether you thought he is physically unattractive? Would you tell him he is? If you don't you would be lying (again, just a fact, does not make it wrong). But then again, you would probably tell him that he is beautiful in his own way, that looks are not all that matters, and so on... but that wasn't his question, was it?

Don't you get it at all? Nobody is saying that physically attractive people have an edge over non-attractive one, except maybe you, since you think that ugly people need all the help they can get, and by suggesting that ugly people can learn to become better people by entering a contest. Nobody needs a defense from ANYONE if they can deal with it themselves.

i seriously think you're missing the point altogether. Please read the forum from the first post on We're talking about respect for the contestants, and the point about joining contests as a form of challenge, and for a chance to prove oneself, or fulfill one's dreams.

There was disagreement on "why enter if we know we won't win at all", and some other comments on "people who cannot make it joining such competitions".

Regarding yr opinions, i find it rather contradicting. You defined that "These girls join beauty contests because they have been lied to their whole life through, their moms, their dads, their friends have all told them that they are attractive, and so, “Hey! The whole world thinks I am beautiful! I’ll just join a beauty contest and walk home the winner!”. Delusion." Is it really a delusion? So the girl goes through life being deluded about her beauty? Or is she supposed to stick with "I'm ugly" her whole life? Her friends & family may really feel that she's beautiful. You think they think she's ugly? She's ugly in YOUR opinion & definition and you've assumed her friends/family think the same.

Your last paragraph is totally off. You concluded, "since you think that ugly people need all the help they can get, and by suggesting that ugly people can learn to become better people by entering a contest. Nobody needs a defense from ANYONE if they can deal with it themselves." ??? U missed the point totally. No one has suggested that so far.. :bsmilie:

Another point misunderstood: "Are you saying that people who suck at in competitions deserve any more respect based on the fact that it took courage? " Nope. No mention of that at all. in fact, ALL contestants deserve equal respect as it definitely takes courage to go on stage and perform infront of an audience.

Anyway, we are so diversified in our thinking and perceptions that it is impossible to come to a single accepted agreement or view.

I have known friends who entered competitions with exitement, hope, and confidence that they may just make it. I've seen them crushed, and cruelly laughed at, yet they held their heads high, laughed it off and moved on, subsequently improving and most importantly, moving on. And they're happy they tried and have gone through it.. these experiences then become memories which we bring with us as we grow older and treasure them as what we did in our lives. I too have entered my fair share of competitions.. won a few, lost even more.. lost loads of hair from anxiety and had loads of laughs with friends about the memories. :bsmilie:

I shall stop here. if this goes on it'll be a 10 year debate :bsmilie: Well, once again good luck to anyone joining a competition!

 

[Demosthenes]

Your last paragraph is totally off. You concluded, "since you think that ugly people need all the help they can get, and by suggesting that ugly people can learn to become better people by entering a contest. Nobody needs a defense from ANYONE if they can deal with it themselves." ??? U missed the point totally. No one has suggested that so far.. :bsmilie:

Just to point you in the right direction.

"It's not about lying to them. It's an encouragement for them to be a better person."

Unless "No one" refers to just you, then hey, I guess you didn't say anything of that sort.

My defination of ugly? It is the exact opposite of attractive. Simply. Will you tell me there are no such people in the world? You said "Or is she supposed to stick with "I'm ugly" her whole life?" Just what exactly is so wrong with being ugly that she has to "stick with it"? Is it a disease that she must pull through? Ugly people should not be stigmatised, but some of you are doing more damage to the "sides" you are taking.

"I think you are ugly Pinkishy." Now THAT would be taken as an insult. Why?
Wheares if i were to say:"Hey Pinkishy, you look hot" that would be taken as praise. And please don't give me the "it doesn't matter cuz they are beautiful inside" ying-yen/zen thingy. I just don't understand why UGLY is associated thus.

 

[zekai]

anybody got link to the finalist pictures?

 

[eyes]

...Whether or not they seem bimbotic, they joined the competition as they would just like the experience, and that glimmer of hope and exitement of joining a competition of such prestige and a chance to travel.

Wasting company's resource for private reasons are already bad enough. I don't think we need people to get some experience or exposure or whatever at the expense of our national image.

 

[VampTreSS]

I can tell you it is not easy path as well when you join beauty contest. I photograph some of their activities and i can tell you it's not easy to look good and beautiful in front of so many people.

No one ever said it was easy. No competition is easy. Hell, life isn't easy. So those who join it, should know what they're in for. Not just talking about a beauty contest here. Anything. Besides, if it's so hard to maintain that standard of looking good all the time, why join then? 'Cos this will be what separates the winner from the rest.

Why don't you guys who have negative thoughts about our local girls go join a male hunk contest if you think our local girls are not pretty enough.

By the way, the local male beauty contestants aren't any better. They're just as sub standard. At least to me (Does this mean I should start joining female beauty contests now? ;p )

The thread starter, I know you mean well but I think we should show some encouragement.

I may not be the thread starter... But why? Are there beauty queens reading this? Or you mean we will start winning or their standards will improve if I start showing my encouragement? Hmmm.. :think:

And how do define beautiful? How only can you say who can make it and who can't? Who out there is to say they are a bimbos and no brains?

I know all the above statements were meant for the thread starter, but I just have this primal desire to force you to read through my opinions :devil: so.. :blah:

Seriously, it doesn't matter what all of us says.. We aren't the judges at those competitions. But it must mean something when Singapore has never made it pass the preliminary rounds at these competitions on the World stage (Bad luck maybe? Maybe the judges are blind? Or just maybe, eyes, me and a few others are really the judges in disguise and we come on to clubsnap out of boredom to make a comment or two when we aren't judging at competitions :devil: :devil: :devil: ).

It's not about winning a contest. It doesn't mean that when a country who won a beauty contest means everyone in that country is beautiful. It's about getting to know other nations girls that is a good learning experince for the girls.

Wait.. Are you a beauty contestant in disguise coming to clubsnap out of boredom to make comments when you aren't otherwise busy at competitions? *GASP*

All ladies in CS, are you sit there and get scrutinize by the males species? This is a free world and whoever wants to join the contest, let them be. This is part and parcel of life. Those who join the contest, I would salute them who dare to do it. Imagine wearing a swimsuit and being parade in the pubilc. Do you know how difficult that is?

I am female. But no one's scrutinising me now (thankfully) 'cos no one's talking about the female on the street. We're talking about Miss Singapore/Universe. Still like I've mentioned, nothing we say here will stop or encourage the next Miss Singapore/Universe hopeful to join or not join. And wearing a swimsuit and parading yourself is again part of the package.

Sure they may not be up to your standard but what is your standard? Cindy Crawford or Linda Evangelista. Nobody is perfect. It's true that some have brains and do not look good. And vice versa.

I do agree with you, except I wasn't thinking of a perfect Singaporean girl representing us. Like you said, there is no perfection. Depending on who's judging, they will determine the beauty standard. However, I do feel that the lack of perfection isn't the problem here. The lack of the best is.

And those that "so call pretty girls out there", please stay away since you think you are pretty. Please, do not think you are pretty just because some people say you are pretty.

Hmm? Where did this pop out from? *scratch head* LOL!

To me I find this thread rather cheesy as yet again the girls are getting a low down by the males. So sad with some of the comments.

*sayang* *hug hug*

 

[feryl]

Let's make Miss Universe compulsory to all girls?

Are u suggesting that girls perform their 'NS' as Miss Singapore contestants? :sweat:

All of my female frens would probably emigrate...

 

[feryl]

Wasting company's resource for private reasons are already bad enough. I don't think we need people to get some experience or exposure or whatever at the expense of our national image.

:bsmilie:

Economy drive, brother. We should learn to invest in the right kind of 'market'. This is what i feel for things like soccer and beauty pageants - too much money spent, too little dividends.

 

[wheek]

argh ... how shallow :what: ...

Beauty is defined in many different ways.

You need not have long legs, a perfect figure or porcelain skin to be defined as beautiful.

Each of those girls are beautiful in their own way. I would say a charming personality beats a pretty face anytime. A pretty face comes and goes.. but a charming personality goes a long way...

Whether or not they seem bimbotic, they joined the competition as they would just like the experience, and that glimmer of hope and exitement of joining a competition of such prestige and a chance to travel.

True, you might say, why join a competition if you do not have the looks? This is a very pessimistic view. Look at William Hung. He wanted to sing, he tried. He didn't make it and got laughed at. But at the end of day, he can say he tried.

Yes i agree. His singing was terrible and he totally messed up the dancing. He doesn't have the looks, so why join? Waste the judges' time?

Some of us laugh cruelly at him, but others respect and admire his courage to do something he stood for and at least he tried to fulfill that wish he has, and will not die regretting that he did not try.

He walked off quietly and perhaps sad that he didn't make it.. but he tried! As for those who kept arguing that they're good, they're the best.. they believe in themselves and think they're good enough to make the cut, however, it's a reality check as there are others who are simply better. But.. they still tried!

You might also argue, Miss Universe is an international pageant and standards are high.. so you should know your own limits.. blah blah... we've never won..

So would you rather Singapore is not represented at all? S-League may suck big time.. but at least they're trying and we have football clubs here. It's a start. That's where societies and people improve and soon we get better and better at it. It's a love for football .. to play with friends, or to play competitively.. why run them down like this?

I wouldn't deny that some of the contestants who entered the competition didn't meet up to expectations, but they must have had a reason to want to join. Maybe they needed the money, or maybe it was just for the experience, a stab at the chance, a step to fulfilling their dreams. If they don't win, they walk away and either they're given a reality check, or they improve on themselves or their lives from this failure .. and move on.

Well, to each their own, but that's my few cents worth. And to those who are joining some competition, good luck and i admire your courage.

I couldn't agree more with what you said. If we all adopt this defeatist attitude, then good luck to us all. Why bother even applying for a job? Others are smarter & have more experience. For sure I wouldn't get selected. So why bother applying for a job? My O-levels not single digit. Sure can't get into JC. So why bother trying? Just give up lor.

William Hung may have sucked. Hell, my grandpa can sing better than him! But at least William Hung tried. At least he knew how to take defeat in his stride unlike some who insist they've got talent & had to be dragged out by security.

Those beauty contestants may not have won internationally but at least they tried. At least they did more than those who just sit on their rump & talk a lot. Why not let those "bystanders" who only know how to sit & criticise go & try taking part & see how well they do?

Its always easy as a bystander. Why is that model so ugly? Why that game show contestant so stupid? Why is that Star Search wannabe so stiff & unnatural? Why that soccer player so lousy? Its easy to make such comments. But when you are the one in the situation, it would be a totally different story I assure you!

 

[Pro Image]

Wah this thread is so hot man! Can feel the flames burning.... :devil:

This is my take. I think it's very very to judge who is right and who is wrong. So guys and gals, just enjoy our lives lah and go out to do more shooting. Aiya why get so work out with other people commenting on others.

PEACE MAN.......... :bsmilie:

 

[FLiNcHY]

I believe the whole point here is:

Because the beauty contestant sucks, she should not even have the big enough ego to think she is pretty enough to join the competition.

Because william hung can't sing for nuts, he should not be joining american idol and making a fool out of himself (it is because of media hype which made him so famous)

When you see absolutely atrocious females joining beauty pageants (like the examples i showed), you start to wonder whether it is "bravery and courage" or "the egotistical and illusional" image that the contestant conjures up about herself, thinking that she is actually pretty enough to win the pageant.

I prefer to think of it as the latter. Hmm, if i can somehow conjure up the image that i am muscular and hunky, i might actually sign up for a man hunt contest
:think: :bsmilie:

 

[hwchoy]

geez! can we just have the pictures and enjoy them please ?

 

[Pro Image]

geez! can we just have the pictures and enjoy them please ?

wei, enjoy? u hah....... :bsmilie:

 

[hwchoy]

eh!? I said something wrong? :embrass: paiseh paiseh whatever it was that I said

 

[zaren]

firstly, i disagree that the lack of a singapore miss universe is proof that singapore women are unattractive. many people around the world assciate singapore female beauty with the positive image of the "singapore girl", for example.
secondly, the miss universe contest seems to be all about having a certain "look". many so-called international beauties don't possess this "miss universe" look and therefore will never win the miss universe contest. some examples? most supermodels (e.g. claudia schiffer with her buck teeth), hollywood actresses (e.g. jennifer aniston - beautiful hair but that's it really), tennis "babe" anna kournikova (fat fat fat!) etc etc. i doubt if even cindy crawford can win due to her mole (facial imperfection) and her (relatively) flat chest. or linda evangelista (face too square). or zhang ziyi (too short, not buxom enuf) etc etc etc. so... beauty does seem to be in the eye of the beholder... or in the eyes of the miss universe judges. not worth losing sleep over! :bsmilie: