Likely Buying A Leica M3

[alternatve]

Type slower abit. I catch no ball.

Back to topic. Still have yet to get my M3, though I've been eyeing Voigtlander RM3 alot for my first RF. Eyeing M6 too, but still at least 1K shot of vitamin M. :sweat:

Well, since it's for first time, you might want to reduce the damage done to your poor wallet by getting an Bessa. Check out which lenses you might want to use and get the R3 or R4 to suit it. The M usually cost more as well. Also, by getting this, if you find that you don't really like RF, you can move on without a 4-5k hole a Leica camera and lenses would bring.

Btw, I think the M6 is more then a shot of 1k vitamin M. ^^|||

 

[intosite]

Well, since it's for first time, you might want to reduce the damage done to your poor wallet by getting an Bessa. Check out which lenses you might want to use and get the R3 or R4 to suit it. The M usually cost more as well. Also, by getting this, if you find that you don't really like RF, you can move on without a 4-5k hole a Leica camera and lenses would bring.

Btw, I think the M6 is more then a shot of 1k vitamin M. ^^|||

the damaged is not tat much.... if you really don't mind, just get a beat up M, ignore the scratches n stuff... THink i saw loads of M4-Ps at Cam X going for ~$1400.. You probably can get better deals on the b&s section.. just need to be patient... i got a 'beat' up black m6 ttl for 1.8... and only the shutter speed dial was scratched...base plate protective sticker was even still on...

also the bessa's baselength is shorter than most Ms...

Why don't consider a CL/E? they look pretty sweet too...

 

[JamesW]

Actually, mostly set on a M4-P. If all goes well, tomorrow.

 

[JamesW]

the damaged is not tat much.... if you really don't mind, just get a beat up M, ignore the scratches n stuff... THink i saw loads of M4-Ps at Cam X going for ~$1400.. You probably can get better deals on the b&s section.. just need to be patient... i got a 'beat' up black m6 ttl for 1.8... and only the shutter speed dial was scratched...base plate protective sticker was even still on...

also the bessa's baselength is shorter than most Ms...

Why don't consider a CL/E? they look pretty sweet too...

Quite a good deal you got there, but I personally prefer taking photos then camping on B&S. :bsmilie:

Actually I've been reading up quite alot of RFF so I think it's pretty ok ATM.

 

[chiif]

also the bessa's baselength is shorter than most Ms...

Time to speak up for my products...

Yes, the Bessa has a relatively short baselength compared to the Leicas or even Zeiss Ikon. The bsselength would come into picture when you use a longer focal length lens. If your intention of using a RF is to shoot at most 75mm, then the baselength would not really matter too much, in my own opinion. Short baselength will affect focusing on longer focal length lenses.

RF is great for street and candid as it gives a very photojournalistic feel. Personally, I use it with the 21mm most of the time. Focusing on the CV21mm/f4 wide open is really easy and fun. That's why I always recommend people who what to use the Bessa for holidays and candids, go for the widest possible focal length that they are comfortable. The other good lens for general use is the 28mm/f1.9. The Bessa RF is designed for wide angle and general photography, anything longer than 90mm a SLR would do a much better job.

As a tool, Bessa is great for it's intended purpose with a range of affordable wide angle lenses, easy focusing, well built able to withstand extreme conditions. If you are looking for a phototaking machine, it's a pretty decent choice.

Come back to buying a Leica M or a Bessa.

Like what Yol925 (my Si Fu) has said, if you can master the tool well, it doesn't matter what you use. My suggestion to most young photographers who have limited budget, to get for a working camera with a light meter. Yes, a Leica is a mechanical precision wonder. But, do remember, the photographer is using it to take picture, not to admire. If most of the shots turn out either under exposed or faded because the photographer guess the settings wrongly, what's the point of paying 1K+ for a mechanical precision wonder?

Yes, the Bessas are not that cheap either, but do keep in mind, if you decided to sell it off after 2 years, you will probably loose 20% of the value which will come out to about SGD200. Which is pretty decent, I think.

Good luck in your camera search.

 

[JamesW]

I have to agree with the above post. I'm not too worried about the baselength issue. For more than 90mm, better stick with a SLR. I've a DSLR to handle such cases. My purpose of getting RF is mainly for street and candid. So what Chiff said really nailed it.

I fully understand that apart from M6 and above, Leicas mainly don't have meter. But thats why you have the VC II for those in the above detrimental situation. :sweatsm:

Actually getting the camera got less to do with my budget than what I feel more comfortable with (its not just a comfort/functionality issue but rather personal as well). I could have sold some of my extra lense and equipment to increase my budget, but then again, going for an M7 or MP was not what I have in mind at all.

Chiff thanks for the post. The part about the different lenses was indeed informative to newcomers like me.

 

[intosite]

aiks... :|

apologies... didn't mean to speak lowly of bessa....

i'm a user of your products too!! haha.. just a different one.. love the 40/1.4...

yeah.. honestly besides tele lenses, if mainly shooting at f8 onwards... i think the dof is more than enough to cover the 'lost' in the focusing shortfall..

hehe.. i was actually considering the zeiss ikon, cause to me it looked nicer than the Ms... just didn't liked the electronic shutter... honestly i'm not a fan of bessa's design...

anyways i don't think need to worry too much about selling off your stuff next time for wat ever you do buy now.. cause by then, you'll feel tat what ever you had, will have paid its worth by the pics you took (not talking about mint Ms or new m7s or m8s)....

 

[JamesW]

aiks... :|

anyways i don't think need to worry too much about selling off your stuff next time for wat ever you do buy now.. cause by then, you'll feel tat what ever you had, will have paid its worth by the pics you took (not talking about mint Ms or new m7s or m8s)....

Trying not to sell anything. It's just I feel ridiculous when someone suggest a MP to someone looking for M3 (or M4 in this case). Its not typically in the buying range of most of the photographers here.

 

[chiif]

aiks... :|

apologies... didn't mean to speak lowly of bessa....

hehe.. i was actually considering the zeiss ikon, cause to me it looked nicer than the Ms... just didn't liked the electronic shutter... honestly i'm not a fan of bessa's design...

Don't worry... it's a healthy equipment discussion. I welcome any comments about Bessas and the CV lenses. This way, I learn.

I personally like the Zeiss Ikon very much. It's a mechanical design wonder. It's baselength is actually very long. Feel and construction is very fine. If the M6 is described as a "gentleman", then I would use "a very elegant lady" to describe the Zeiss Ikon.

 

[JamesW]

Ok. I got the M4-P. Now just have to get a Voigtlander lense to round it all up.

The M4-P makes my D200 feel like a toy. The feel of the Leica is just very solid. :bsmilie:

 

[clubgrit]

Great, welcome to the club Isn't there a Leica club in Singapore like the USA's LHSA ?

Although many Leica purist users eschew or shun accessories, I use some:

1. THE ABRAHAMSSON CLASSIC Softie from http://www.rapidwinder.com

- This helps one get an even more stable shot, or gain at least 1 f-stop in hand-held speed, good for night scenes without tripods. Just got some of their engraved ones.

I took this handheld shot with 1/8 speed (still need more practice), f/2, Ilford Pan 400, with a Leicatime softie, which is similar ->

2. 1.25x Viewfinder Magnifier

- can't do without these these days, works for all at least from M4 up (not sure about M2 or M3). I prefer chrome over the black.

3. Leicatime cases

- Italian leather cases and straps for Leica Ms. Not exactly cheap, luxurious stuff to pamper your Leica (and others)

4. Voigtlander VC Meter II
- I like to use this even on my M6 TTL sometimes, as it allows metering with the camera uncocked, and without raising the camera to one's eye. Chiif sells these at a good price. I prefer the chrome, and even use it on a black M.

Metering is like the M6 TTL, LEDs with 2 arrows and a circle, but read the opposite way. Still the best for me is the handheld Sekonic meter for critical stuff, although Voigtlander is convenient.
.
.
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[intosite]

anyone know where i can find the accessory that attaches to the tripod mount on the M and then it has a lens mount to attaced a lens...??

 

[clubgrit]

Try Ron's Camera at the Adelphi ?

saw some on ebay ... comes out once in a while ...

The guy selling below honestly says he doesn't use it :bsmilie:. He doesn't ship overseas though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Leica-M-Lens-Ca...ryZ29965QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[JamesW]

I just got the VC II and the Voigtlander Ultron F1.7. Thanks Chiif, for really explaining things to a complete newcomer.

Never shot filmed before (I used family and relative's film before but that doesn't count). So I'd have to learn how to develop at a shop. Learn to develop myself eventually. So it's quite a different concept to me. Very spartan when compared to a DSLR. I like it very much.

By the way, is it just me or does the crowd here seem to be above 30 years old?

 

[alternatve]

I just got the VC II and the Voigtlander Ultron F1.7. Thanks Chiif, for really explaining things to a complete newcomer.

Never shot filmed before (I used family and relative's film before but that doesn't count). So I'd have to learn how to develop at a shop. Learn to develop myself eventually. So it's quite a different concept to me. Very spartan when compared to a DSLR. I like it very much.

By the way, is it just me or does the crowd here seem to be above 30 years old?

With a few exceptions, like me.

 

[intosite]

I just got the VC II and the Voigtlander Ultron F1.7. Thanks Chiif, for really explaining things to a complete newcomer.

Never shot filmed before (I used family and relative's film before but that doesn't count). So I'd have to learn how to develop at a shop. Learn to develop myself eventually. So it's quite a different concept to me. Very spartan when compared to a DSLR. I like it very much.

By the way, is it just me or does the crowd here seem to be above 30 years old?

haha.. i'm also under 30.... still quite a way to go... keke
am moving quite in a different direction... from a nikon d200 to a rollei 35x to a olympus xa then a ricoh gr... finally and hopefully stop at a m6ttl.... keke

miss the days when i process my own rolls... there's once i loaded a roll into the tank under my blankets came out fine.. keke but i was stuck in bed for like an hour, cause was using the metal tanks and loading was quite a killer...

 

[Nitsu]

Hi Chiif, thanks for mentioning me. You're right, I've sold the M3 and M2, and the M4 too! Now I'm just keeping my M6. I'm going to list my Bessa R2 for sale soon too.

 

[chiif]

Hi Chiif, thanks for mentioning me. You're right, I've sold the M3 and M2, and the M4 too! Now I'm just keeping my M6. I'm going to list my Bessa R2 for sale soon too.

You are welcome...
These days more and more younger photographers are interested in 35mm and Leica is starting to get hip again... or I should say... retro.

Or maybe it's the step closer to the M8??? and it's only 1/8 of the price (used user M2/3/4).

 

[JamesW]

Most people I think get a non-digital RF as its a refreshing air when compared to the rather instant gratification of a digital camera.

For me, I had always wanted to try to capture the 50s to 60s style of B&W photography albeit in a modern context. I still have alot to learn though.

 

[King Tiger]

Have been reading the thead and I find it very informative and good for those interest in rangefinders.