Larger Format Photography

[sfoto100]

You might not want to miss this one. You are all set for wide angle photography! The 45G is a pro level camera with geared rise and fall. Under USD350 for this set is a very good deal - the lens itself worths USD150-220. Each film holders worth USD7-15. And you save on the shipping cost of individual items.

thank u very much!!!

i assume u have at least one LF too.. may i know what scanner u r using to scan the negative? or u do darkroom?

i went out with wootsk that day and he share with me his knowledge on scanner.. basically it is that normal scanner can't handle high dmax, sharpness will not be there due to inability of the scanner lens to focus on the film.. in fact i thought to use dslr to scan my negative, so i can save even the scanner cost... it seems that traditional darkroom is still the best for film...

 

[losheng]

thank u very much!!!
i assume u have at least one LF too.. may i know what scanner u r using to scan the negative? or u do darkroom?

I do have a Toyo 45A. I am not an expert with scanning - wootsk and kingston knows it much better than i do. I am pretty frustrated with the quality of the scans I get from my Nikon Coolscan 9000.

But here's my non-solicited two cents anyway - for sharing on the web, the lest painful way is to simply use your dslr to take a picture of the neg/slide on a day-light lightbox, and do a 10 second tweak in gimp or photoshop. For a 2 megapixel output, this is as good as it gets. Getting a high quality scan is not easy, and extremely time consuming. If there's a masterpiece that you need to send for digital printing, it's a lot easier to pay kingston to do the scanning for you.

Printing in the darkroom is fantastic - i have a temporary one in the office, and I'm very close to finalizing a commercial space to setup a permanent one. I find the darkroom experience very therapeutic, totally unlike the hair pulling experience I had with scanning. So you have to try it to see if you like it too. I used to setup the darkroom in the storeroom of my parent's HDB flat. Now I have a temporary setup in my office. In the near future, I'm hoping to rent a space to setup a permanent darkroom that can be shared with other enthusiasts. If you don't intend to setup your own darkroom, but want to do your own printing - stay tuned

ls

 

[sfoto100]

I do have a Toyo 45A. I am not an expert with scanning - wootsk and kingston knows it much better than i do. I am pretty frustrated with the quality of the scans I get from my Nikon Coolscan 9000.

But here's my non-solicited two cents anyway - for sharing on the web, the lest painful way is to simply use your dslr to take a picture of the neg/slide on a day-light lightbox, and do a 10 second tweak in gimp or photoshop. For a 2 megapixel output, this is as good as it gets. Getting a high quality scan is not easy, and extremely time consuming. If there's a masterpiece that you need to send for digital printing, it's a lot easier to pay kingston to do the scanning for you.

Printing in the darkroom is fantastic - i have a temporary one in the office, and I'm very close to finalizing a commercial space to setup a permanent one. I find the darkroom experience very therapeutic, totally unlike the hair pulling experience I had with scanning. So you have to try it to see if you like it too. I used to setup the darkroom in the storeroom of my parent's HDB flat. Now I have a temporary setup in my office. In the near future, I'm hoping to rent a space to setup a permanent darkroom that can be shared with other enthusiasts. If you don't intend to setup your darkroom - stay tuned

ls

i am too naive in the beginning.. and hence i rush to buy some 135 film cameras .. but luckily safra still offer darkroom.. and i intend to go learn it.. i must create more negative now.. only one roll of 36 so far..

your news is really good news.. how do u get an enlarger? i guess no one is selling in SG anymore.. your enlarger support MF and 4x5?

actually wootsk ask me to get a 45A, as i am quite shocked to see his heavy tripod... i am worried i am buying another white elephant (my bad habit of rearing elephants).. LF is really not for the fainted hearted ah! :sweat::sweat:

 

[losheng]

i am too naive in the beginning.. and hence i rush to buy some 135 film cameras .. but luckily safra still offer darkroom.. and i intend to go learn it.. i must create more negative now.. only one roll of 36 so far..

your news is really good news.. how do u get an enlarger? i guess no one is selling in SG anymore.. your enlarger support MF and 4x5?
actually wootsk ask me to get a 45A, as i am quite shocked to see his heavy tripod... i am worried i am buying another white elephant (my bad habit of rearing elephants).. LF is really not for the fainted hearted ah! :sweat::sweat:

Hey, there's nothing wrong with 135 cameras - it's a lot cheaper to experiment with the small formats. I buy Tri-X and HP-5 in 100ft and roll the films myself. This reduces the cost per roll down to below 4 bucks. Also, 135 cameras takes different kind of pictures compared to the large formats, so they are not mutually exclusive.

I bought my first Meopta enlarger in early 1990s from Ruby, and I think they still carry it (do they?). The Meopta can only handle up to 6x6. Last year I picked up a Kaiser from a mini-lab that was shutting down its darkroom. But I really wanted a 4x5 enlarger, so I bought an Omega Prolab for US$400 from the craigslist, but had to trouble a friend to drive almost 200 miles to-and-fro to pick it up, and to have it shipped back together with the rest of his own belongings when he relocated back to Singapore. Seng Cheong still has a brand new LPL 4500. It's going to cost a few grands, but it's a really nice enlarger, much nicer than my Omega. Not to mention that my Omega has only a condenser head, while the one Seng Cheong has comes with a color head.

A few years ago, enlargers were being dumped out all across the island, so there are less second hand ones around. But you can still find them if you are patient. I think you can still order the Kaiser ones from the local Kaiser agent. The Kaiser unit is a lot nicer than the Meopta, but will probably cost a bit more. 4x5 ones are going to be tricky to find locally, but can be bought very cheaply on SFbay's craigslist. There was even one that came with a color head and analyzer for US$350 a few months ago! - you'll need a friend to help you ship it back.

The 45A is nice, but its a lot more costly. Most units went for northwards of US$600 on ebay, when you can get a complete set of monorails for half the price. I won't rule out monorails - my first experience with the 4x5 was a borrowed Linhof Karden Master GTL. I loved it to death, and bought the 45A because I couldn't afford one myself.

I don't think you should worry too much about white elephants - unlike digital elephants, these equipment are comparatively cheap, and retain their value very well. Above all, it adds mystery and depth to your character, and can come in really handy when it comes to picking up chicks. My 4-year old daughter talks to me everytime I pull out my 45A.

 

[sfoto100]

My 4-year old daughter talks to me everytime I pull out my 45A.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[kgston]

Printing in the darkroom is fantastic - i have a temporary one in the office, and I'm very close to finalizing a commercial space to setup a permanent one. I find the darkroom experience very therapeutic, totally unlike the hair pulling experience I had with scanning. So you have to try it to see if you like it too. I used to setup the darkroom in the storeroom of my parent's HDB flat. Now I have a temporary setup in my office. In the near future, I'm hoping to rent a space to setup a permanent darkroom that can be shared with other enthusiasts. If you don't intend to setup your own darkroom, but want to do your own printing - stay tuned

Sounds exciting to be able to rent a darkroom for own use, hopefully location will be gd .. SAFRA @ mt faber is too far and inconvenient for me and I'm too lazy to take their printing course just to use their darkroom.. haha..

 

[sfoto100]

Hey, there's nothing wrong with 135 cameras - it's a lot cheaper to experiment with the small formats. I buy Tri-X and HP-5 in 100ft and roll the films myself. This reduces the cost per roll down to below 4 bucks. Also, 135 cameras takes different kind of pictures compared to the large formats, so they are not mutually exclusive.

I bought my first Meopta enlarger in early 1990s from Ruby, and I think they still carry it (do they?). The Meopta can only handle up to 6x6. Last year I picked up a Kaiser from a mini-lab that was shutting down its darkroom. But I really wanted a 4x5 enlarger, so I bought an Omega Prolab for US$400 from the craigslist, but had to trouble a friend to drive almost 200 miles to-and-fro to pick it up, and to have it shipped back together with the rest of his own belongings when he relocated back to Singapore. Seng Cheong still has a brand new LPL 4500. It's going to cost a few grands, but it's a really nice enlarger, much nicer than my Omega. Not to mention that my Omega has only a condenser head, while the one Seng Cheong has comes with a color head.

A few years ago, enlargers were being dumped out all across the island, so there are less second hand ones around. But you can still find them if you are patient. I think you can still order the Kaiser ones from the local Kaiser agent. The Kaiser unit is a lot nicer than the Meopta, but will probably cost a bit more. 4x5 ones are going to be tricky to find locally, but can be bought very cheaply on SFbay's craigslist. There was even one that came with a color head and analyzer for US$350 a few months ago! - you'll need a friend to help you ship it back.

The 45A is nice, but its a lot more costly. Most units went for northwards of US$600 on ebay, when you can get a complete set of monorails for half the price. I won't rule out monorails - my first experience with the 4x5 was a borrowed Linhof Karden Master GTL. I loved it to death, and bought the 45A because I couldn't afford one myself.

I don't think you should worry too much about white elephants - unlike digital elephants, these equipment are comparatively cheap, and retain their value very well. Above all, it adds mystery and depth to your character, and can come in really handy when it comes to picking up chicks. My 4-year old daughter talks to me everytime I pull out my 45A.

actually the toyo 45G u sahre is really nice.. at least i feel it looks more expensive than calumet... many calumet are very old.. and they look old, but, but but.. some of them are very light . hee hee..

i miss out bidding on one, it is a light weight one , here : eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

edit: i didn't bid due to the scanner issue that i learned of before the deal ends...

and another one which i watched but didn't ask for ship charges.
eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices

what do u think of the prices?

 

[kgston]

edit: i didn't bid due to the scanner issue that i learned of before the deal ends...

Actually LF films are "easier" to scan in the sense that because the negs are already so large, resolution is not really a major issue and flatbeds and DSLR scanning can give decent results for web use, as long as you can keep the neg flat.

 

[losheng]

Sounds exciting to be able to rent a darkroom for own use, hopefully location will be gd .. SAFRA @ mt faber is too far and inconvenient for me and I'm too lazy to take their printing course just to use their darkroom.. haha..

The darkroom is unlikely to be a positive ROI investment, but merely for my own use and also to help keep the wet printing community alive. But I hope that it can be self-sustaining. As such, cost management and commitment is very important. A high rental commitment will get me into trouble should anything happen to me - such as losing my job. With that in mind, I need to have some realistic expectation on the location - it has to be very small, very cheap. In fact, it might have to move every year depending where I can find a cheaper location.

I do look for people to share the cost of the rental in return for unlimited use, or later when it is done up, to rent it out on a per-use basis - chemicals, papers, all inclusive. I figure if anyone just need to use the darkroom occasionally, it doesn't make sense to invest in a whole set of chemicals and paper that he/she can't finish.

Workable idea? Let me know if anyone is keen to have such a private darkroom on a co-op basis

 

[zguy]

Above all, it adds mystery and depth to your character, and can come in really handy when it comes to picking up chicks. My 4-year old daughter talks to me everytime I pull out my 45A.

haha good opportunity to explain light physics and chemistry to her.
my kid prefer instant playback on a digital camera and i only get blur photos if i get my kid to sit for me for a LF portrait shot.
However i have a few uncles I met at MacRitchie Reservoir Park either asking me am I using an antique camera or telling me that their wedding photos were taken using such a camera.

 

[losheng]

what do u think of the prices?

The Calumet Cadet is the entry level model - I personally have no experience with it. Ruby used to carry it in the late nineties. I suspect you might get a better value aiming for the NX or NX-II. Another pro-level Calumet monorail that often go for very good price is the Legend. You may want to check that out too.

As for the Toyo one - the price seemed good. It's a very old Toyo, and I'm not sure which model it is. If you want to use a bag bellow, you need to be aware that not all Toyos have interchangeable bellows - you need to stick with either the 45C, 45F, 45G, 45G-II, 45GX, or 45CX. The G series have gear rise/fall, and are heavy. The GX is the niciest monorail from Toyo - it has all the features of the GII with yaw-free design, and therefore likely to be the most expensive of them all.

 

[Nikkornos]

I used the Toyo 45A to take a photo of my boss.

After he saw the negative and pictures, I know I will get a very good bonus this year ;p

 

[Shadowleong]

Losheng I'll be glad to rent the darkroom is there is one.

Thats only one or two of us with an enlarger, not to mention a 4x5 one.

For a student like me, pricing on a per use basis would be more practical,

If the space is big enough, we can even have a printing session and print sharing after that.

 

[sfoto100]

The darkroom is unlikely to be a positive ROI investment, but merely for my own use and also to help keep the wet printing community alive. But I hope that it can be self-sustaining. As such, cost management and commitment is very important. A high rental commitment will get me into trouble should anything happen to me - such as losing my job. With that in mind, I need to have some realistic expectation on the location - it has to be very small, very cheap. In fact, it might have to move every year depending where I can find a cheaper location.

I do look for people to share the cost of the rental in return for unlimited use, or later when it is done up, to rent it out on a per-use basis - chemicals, papers, all inclusive. I figure if anyone just need to use the darkroom occasionally, it doesn't make sense to invest in a whole set of chemicals and paper that he/she can't finish.

Workable idea? Let me know if anyone is keen to have such a private darkroom on a co-op basis

i guess it will take off.. who knows there might be enough ppl there interested to even make it profitable .. u never know.. CS does not cover the entire photography community in SG..

 

[losheng]

After he saw the negative and pictures, I know I will get a very good bonus this year ;p

Dude! I need to come to take a picture of your boss too!

 

[losheng]

i guess it will take off.. who knows there might be enough ppl there interested to even make it profitable .. u never know.. CS does not cover the entire photography community in SG..

Personally, I will be more than satisfied if the darkroom gets well utilized, and being financially self-running. If there's any profits, they can be used first to recover the cost of investment, and then to purchase additional equipment. Beyond the enlargers, a well setup darkroom needs to have a good densitometer to calibrate your film speeds against your processing technique, and a print dryer to make spanking fibre prints. If anyone wants to do analog photography, let him/her go the full nine yards

Shadowleong: I hear you! I'll keep you guys posted. At this point, I'm waiting to discuss with landlord if he can keep the current rental price the same as the current tenant, and to allow me to pull in water supply. And of course, to evaluate the cost of capital investment for a set of stainless steel trough and worktops. And an aircon.

At the very least, it should be a fun project

This has to be a primarily community effort, rather than a business endeavour. Let's just aim to break even for a start

 

[sfoto100]

anyone of you have done or seen digital fine art print and traditional wet print before?

I have only seen some fine art (not sure if it is really using good fine art paper though) digital print at Cathay photo.. i have not seen any traditonal ones before (i missed the nafa one posted by shadowleong.. i thought it was there till end of the year)... But those at Cathay did not undergo film like post edit ( like Silver Efex Pro etc), so there is no film like effects... very straight.. very static..

 

[sfoto100]

Personally, I will be more than satisfied if the darkroom gets well utilized, and being financially self-running. If there's any profits, they can be used first to recover the cost of investment, and then to purchase additional equipment. Beyond the enlargers, a well setup darkroom needs to have a good densitometer to calibrate your film speeds against your processing technique, and a print dryer to make spanking fibre prints. If anyone wants to do analog photography, let him/her go the full nine yards

Shadowleong: I hear you! I'll keep you guys posted. At this point, I'm waiting to discuss with landlord if he can keep the current rental price the same as the current tenant, and to allow me to pull in water supply. And of course, to evaluate the cost of capital investment for a set of stainless steel trough and worktops. And an aircon.

At the very least, it should be a fun project

This has to be a primarily community effort, rather than a business endeavour. Let's just aim to break even for a start

keep me posted too.. i think my direction will be clear after the safra course...

so it seems that space is not the only issue for setting up one's own darkroom... it is the cost of those under utilised paper, chemicals.. learn something new today.. sort of relief also.. bcos i can cancel the thought of having one at home (though it will be 10x tougher compared to LF; mother will be unhappy).. haha..

 

[wootsk]

2 suggestion for scanning that can produce decent good result on sheet film with a flatbed or camera setup.

1. Develop a low contrast short D range negative where you can stretch the value later in photoshop accordingly for web posting or printer.
2. Darkroom controlled print and scan.

The below are all only about scanner and resolution:
I think I explained poorly about scanning and macro lens. If you are scanning a 135 or 120 format, it is recommanded that you uses a scanner with macro lens for higher resolution scan. But if you are taking sheet film at 4x5 and larger, it isn't really much need for you to use such scanner for the setup. (Depends)

Reason is due to lens resolution. Most LF lens has actually low resolution. (There are a few exception) I am still busy on work, if you are interested, go read up on MTF and light NM.

 

[sfoto100]

found this:

Digital SLR vs. Film Scans, a technical discussion & comparison images

the author give up film altogether, including 4x5, after his own test...

although he sound convincing, such test does not include stuff like the supposingly higher DR offered by film and the analog nature of film (the more art look in my own words)..

i guess film still do better in handling shadow and highlight..