[ Knowledge Base ] - To PP or not to PP, that is the question

[OoStarDustoO]

Ok, i understand Oly cams has great colours out of camera (OOC). There exist a group of people who enjoy Oly gears becos they dun like to do PP.

Here i have 2 sets of pic, one was PP'ed & the other was original. U guys decide which u prefer & why. (Sorry i dun know how to make this a poll)

Basically i'm someone who believes in PP no matter how little. Pls share ur views on the matter

Btw, the shots were done with PEN1 in RAW & processed in Studio2. "Original" means open Studio2 & direct convert. "PP'ed" means some tone curve & contrast were adjusted.

Thx

It's more of about what you prefer and what you wish to present.

For me, always PP, even if it's only a minor adjustment of contrast, brightness etc. So i guess i am about the same as you.

The only time which people should not PP is when they are giving reviews of photo quality of cam bodies and lens, cus when they pp while giving review, they are cheating the readers.

 

[elgkh]

Nightpiper, thanks for sharing. I prefer the PP'd versions for both sets.

My usual workflow is to adjust exposure, contrast and lift the shadows a bit. The out of camera colours are good enough for me.

But then, my monitor is uncalibrated and I shoot in VIVID mode with saturation +1

 

[Hitman]

I started photography in the digital era, so I'm already at the point in the digital imaging journey where I was told (blame the internet ;p )that all images from digital cameras need to go through photoshop. At that time, digital imaging was just beginning to gain popularity, sensor technology was probably not at it's best yet. So I learned that a little leveling, curves, contrast, saturation adjustments in photoshop will greatly enhance the picture.

So, yes, I am for post processing. With all due respect TS, at this digital age, perhaps the question should be 'How much PP should one apply?'

 

[nightpiper]

Knowing how your picture would turned out before you shoot and having optimised your favorite settings would help.

But many a times, the condition is not controllable. So its a case of u snap it or dun. I can't really agree on this point unless everything is slow pace & controlled. Like the 2 eg i showed, its outdoor & i was there only for a short while. Not super clear blue sky & the seagull was moving around.

Fashion Portrait use Astia 100F + Mamiya RZ67, Outdoor Landscape use Velvia 50 + LF + German lens, cheem meh? I thought this is simpler than the digital PP, adjust WB, contrast, saturation, colour hue etc.

The question is not whether we like the original photos or whether the original photos are acceptable. This is the crippling factor in making a picture in my opinion. Instead of visualising a picture and looking to make it, one instead takes a photo and tries to enhance it. It is akin to saying "lets get married first, talk later see how to improve the love part" than saying "lets look forward to knowing one such ideal partner, if LL kenna one less ideal then work towards improving other aspects of the relationship" ;p

Actually film also not easy le. U can control the post in dark rooms & many variables to play with like timing, type of chemicals used, ratio of use, etc. I think more cheem than digital :sweat: Needs loads of experience.

But if u want arty l;ook then its a must lor, but i only want to discuss simple steps.

Nightpiper dude, thanks for opening this can of worms... you must be bored once again.

I think it is great to share about such things. And at the same time, talk about what is PP.

From the term PP (POST PROCESSING), it is already self explanatory. Translates to "processing work after shooting". I have always talked about this with a passion. Like in film days, we shoot them, and the lab process them, that hence "process". In digital, the same process stage is required too.

Some might say that you can expose an image to whatever you want and have control but that is not the case. There are also considerations for saturation and highlights, preservation of details, etc to think about while shooting and in post processing, you can then determine how much information you want to keep or lose in order to make that image work.

Then, there is the tools for post processing. While there are folks who believed in Picassa, I can only say these basic tools are, basic. Nothing wrong with using them. But in order to do the following demo in processing, I would need both hardware and software.


This is a good skill to pick up, especially when you are married. Wives are women, and they tend to be a little vain. Don't show them the raw image, just the post processed ones... and believe me, your next year camera budget will keep increasing...

How u know i'm bored again?? HAHAHAHA!!! I have to post less on CS liao, Mr Incredible said identity is my greatest assets. HAHAHAHA!! But i think the comparison to wives & women is a bit off le. People change over time cos our needs changes & so even if initially u married out of love, what comes after nobody knows. Also people r multi variables, photo is fixed variables, ie. if its underexpose & blur, it doesn't change to correct exposure & sharp over time. :lovegrin:

Initially i was thinking of simple pp, but now it becomes heavy duty lesson for blemish touch up. HAHAHAHAHA!!! My tiny old head is hurting... HAHAHAHA!!!

(ps. What did i see there?? Is it noise?? AAAHHHH!!! NOISE NOISE NOISE!!! Run for ur life!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!)

 

[nightpiper]

So, yes, I am for post processing. With all due respect TS, at this digital age, perhaps the question should be 'How much PP should one apply?'

How much pp is more subjective than shud u do it i feel. Becos the cam already gives good colour output, the need to consider doing it is less, thats why my qn was shud u do it or not. The art filters is a cool trick i wud say, but if u want juz simple ones like i did to make the pic pop more, that requires hands getting dirty in pp. I understand there r people who dun do it (like my fren who owns this PEN1) & people like me who does it no matter how minor.

I dun know if it's juz me, I find the newer NMOS cams tends to need more pp. :think:

Juz for the sake of theITguy's point on crippling factor of pic taking with pp in mind, sometimes in order to bring out the subject more, u need to do the "love after marriage" thing. Like i said, conditions not controllable but we can change & improvise

Here's a pic to demo my point

In full colour the background is more distracting, so i decided to tone it down & emphasis on the message. I think this one can sell to mango for 1million dollars (pinky on lips) HAHAHAHA!!!




But this pic is more heavy duty pp, i still like simpler ones :lovegrin:

 

[mabmy]

Hey Microcosm bro, i really love the way you pp'ed the lady's photo. Althought the eyes looks kind of fake to me but i thought you did a pretty good job with her skin and lips.

Well the thing is that, i know some may think that pp is wrong and cheating and i really get that alot from people who are into the same hobby. Tried reasoning with them and still get the same response. At the end of the day when my pics appears to have better contrast and colors they go "oh its editted". I shot a wedding 2 week ago and the bride and groom were realy happy with my work despite the amount of obvious pp to their skin (the groom is pleasantly surprised his extremely pimply face is clean and thanked me for making him look handsome :bsmilie but people who viewed their photos in my presence and got to know of the camera format and brand i used goes, "oh its photoshop". Well for me, at then end of the day, if it gives me what i want, i'll pp it till i get it. If not, ooc is still good when it comes to taking snapshots of me and my missus.:bsmilie:

 

[bousozoku]

I believe in post processing, even for the E-1. :bsmilie:

However, I limit my changes to white balance, contrast, and colour balance. I don't do fashion and I don't have to worry so much about pimples doing sports or commercial work (when I have it).

 

[spidey89]

Hey Microcosm bro, i really love the way you pp'ed the lady's photo. Althought the eyes looks kind of fake to me but i thought you did a pretty good job with her skin and lips.

Well the thing is that, i know some may think that pp is wrong and cheating and i really get that alot from people who are into the same hobby. Tried reasoning with them and still get the same response. At the end of the day when my pics appears to have better contrast and colors they go "oh its editted". I shot a wedding 2 week ago and the bride and groom were realy happy with my work despite the amount of obvious pp to their skin (the groom is pleasantly surprised his extremely pimply face is clean and thanked me for making him look handsome :bsmilie but people who viewed their photos in my presence and got to know of the camera format and brand i used goes, "oh its photoshop". Well for me, at then end of the day, if it gives me what i want, i'll pp it till i get it. If not, ooc is still good when it comes to taking snapshots of me and my missus.:bsmilie:

Who doesn't like to look at pretty/nice things? The thing is, a leopard will never change its spots, if they choose to think that way, nag at them from dawn to dusk till the end of time also no use, as someone once told me before, RAW is film, post processing is AKA the digital darkroom, much like the old days actual dark room.

So while PP is in a way "needed" the amount is really up to personal taste, commercial shoots such as fashion brochure, most likely the models will need to look flawless, weddings, really depends I guess, go out with friends, heck, I can't be bothered, use E-P1, e-Portrait and shoot, then post as it is, things like macro,some people do stacking, nothing wrong, its just to create a useable picture, so all in all, the amount of PP varies from person to person

 

[microcosm]

"Those who can, do".

"If art is something you can process and calculate by a format and thinking about it, Einstein would have been a greater artist than Da Vinci".

"There is something beyond our own human understanding when it comes to lifting a brush, or pressing a shutter button. That feeling is a mixture of instinct and gut feeling".

"There is a difference between art and fart, so don't use the word arty-farty".

"Feel, feel, feel. When you make an artistic decision, you feel it. There is no right and wrong in art, only what feels good".

- - -

Amount of PP depends on what you are comfortable with, what are you able to do. It is an extension to your creativity and skills. Nightpiper and me both believe in PP but our approach to it is totally different. Like I have mentioned, PP is POST processing. Something done "after". I guess that makes shooting PRE processing? And the whole thing is simply a PROCESS. Eh?

 

[spidey89]

"Those who can, do".

"If art is something you can process and calculate by a format and thinking about it, Einstein would have been a greater artist than Da Vinci".

"There is something beyond our own human understanding when it comes to lifting a brush, or pressing a shutter button. That feeling is a mixture of instinct and gut feeling".

"There is a difference between art and fart, so don't use the word arty-farty".

"Feel, feel, feel. When you make an artistic decision, you feel it. There is no right and wrong in art, only what feels good".

- - -

Amount of PP depends on what you are comfortable with, what are you able to do. It is an extension to your creativity and skills. Nightpiper and me both believe in PP but our approach to it is totally different. Like I have mentioned, PP is POST processing. Something done "after". I guess that makes shooting PRE processing? And the whole thing is simply a PROCESS. Eh?

That is true

 

[nightpiper]

"Those who can, do".

"If art is something you can process and calculate by a format and thinking about it, Einstein would have been a greater artist than Da Vinci".

"There is something beyond our own human understanding when it comes to lifting a brush, or pressing a shutter button. That feeling is a mixture of instinct and gut feeling".

"There is a difference between art and fart, so don't use the word arty-farty".

"Feel, feel, feel. When you make an artistic decision, you feel it. There is no right and wrong in art, only what feels good".

- - -

Amount of PP depends on what you are comfortable with, what are you able to do. It is an extension to your creativity and skills. Nightpiper and me both believe in PP but our approach to it is totally different. Like I have mentioned, PP is POST processing. Something done "after". I guess that makes shooting PRE processing? And the whole thing is simply a PROCESS. Eh?

Its an enjoyable process. :heart:


The saying was... "Those who can... do" "Those who can't... teach" "Those who can't teach... becomes principal" HAHAHAHA!!!

 

[mabmy]

Its an enjoyable process. :heart:


The saying was... "Those who can... do" "Those who can't... teach" "Those who can't teach... becomes principal" HAHAHAHA!!!

Yes a i agree that PP is an enjoyable process! Are you sure about the principal can't teach thingy? :bsmilie:

 

[elgkh]

"Those who can, do".

"If art is something you can process and calculate by a format and thinking about it, Einstein would have been a greater artist than Da Vinci".

"There is something beyond our own human understanding when it comes to lifting a brush, or pressing a shutter button. That feeling is a mixture of instinct and gut feeling".

"There is a difference between art and fart, so don't use the word arty-farty".

"Feel, feel, feel. When you make an artistic decision, you feel it. There is no right and wrong in art, only what feels good".

Here's another quote - "see it with your mind. feel it with your heart. shoot it."

Amount of PP depends on what you are comfortable with, what are you able to do. It is an extension to your creativity and skills. Nightpiper and me both believe in PP but our approach to it is totally different. Like I have mentioned, PP is POST processing. Something done "after". I guess that makes shooting PRE processing? And the whole thing is simply a PROCESS. Eh?

Isn't it a process of making your vision a reality, so that others can see it too? For me, I find PP quite therapeautic, especially when playing with all the settings.

 

[elgkh]

Yes a i agree that PP is an enjoyable process! Are you sure about the principal can't teach thingy? :bsmilie:

The quote I keep seeing is "Those who can't teach.... teach PE".

(apologies to all PE teachers out there. I'm sure you can teach)