JUSTSNAP(known as Newbie in the past) outing to Helix Bridge on 3rd May 2010

[Dream Merchant]

Same as Kit, this is NOT directed at anyone.

Kit and some others know I'm all for a super stable tripod. :sweatsm: But besides what has already been mentioned, one other factor where a sturdy tripod is concerned - it just makes composing so much easier when you have a stable platform to work off.

Especially when one is exploring alignment with reference to the different planes. There's a lot more than just the horizontal and verticals in the genre of photography coupled with the fact that most people (including myself most times) tend to use zoom lenses instead of primes, with the inherent distortions.

Kit, if I may - whether a tripod is needed it's not a 'school of thought' in my books. It's simply a mechanical necessity.

 

[Kit]

Kit, if I may - whether a tripod is needed it's not a 'school of thought' in my books. It's simply a mechanical necessity.

Try playing chess without the chess board......:devil:

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

hahah the 2 gurus speak :devil:

If I may offer a more 'middle-ground' perspective:
A lot of newbies are limited by either their understanding, or their budget, and hence may not yet have acquired the necessary gear to shoot proper night cityscapes. However, their interest is strong and shouldn't be quelled.
If people wanna use railings, concrete blocks, bags, whatever to try and stabilize their camera, I think "fine" as it's all part and parcel of the learning process.
I do have a bone to pick with people who make a joke out of organised night outings by intentionally turning up without tripods, especially when they know better.

 

[BananaDiver]

hahah the 2 gurus speak :devil:

If I may offer a more 'middle-ground' perspective:
A lot of newbies are limited by either their understanding, or their budget, and hence may not yet have acquired the necessary gear to shoot proper night cityscapes. However, their interest is strong and shouldn't be quelled.
If people wanna use railings, concrete blocks, bags, whatever to try and stabilize their camera, I think "fine" as it's all part and parcel of the learning process.
I do have a bone to pick with people who make a joke out of organised night outings by intentionally turning up without tripods, especially when they know better.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: yes... But ZeroCoolAstra... My personal opinion is the person does't even know he was doing the wrong things and giving wrong pointers to the newbies...

 

[Kit]

:thumbsup::thumbsup: yes... But ZeroCoolAstra... My personal opinion is the person does't even know he was doing the wrong things and giving wrong pointers to the newbies...

No designated guides?

 

[hostile]

Hi... then may i know what is your usualy settings for this night shot...
ISO?
Shutter Speed?
Aperture?
white balance?
Tripod?
Manual/Aperture Priority/Shutter Priority?

If your tripod is of a ok quality and have right method of supporting it... i see no reason why you can't just use the tripod for long exposure...

Hi i used:

ISO- 800
Shutter Speed- 1/10
Aperture - f2.7
white balance - n/a
Tripod - no
Manual/Aperture Priority/Shutter Priority - no i used IA cos i din have tripod and it was too blur when i set to ISO 100

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

No designated guides?

The organizer for the JUSTSNAP outings (on whose thread we're using to carry on our discussion ) is a newbie himself.
First-time organizer, which is a brave thing to do and I wish him all the best. Hopefully more outings to come...!
But anyway, there weren't any designated 'guides', though some individuals took it upon themselves to spread rather incorrect information on night cityscape photography.

 

[hostile]

Dear Hostile,

Don't worrysince we know your intention is to get a grasp of what a DSLR can do than your compact camera. I'm sure you have already picked up some of the info on what are the criteria in shooting, eg. adjusting ISO, aperture adn etc. Hope you will soon make uo your mind which DSLR to choose

=) thanks!

 

[ZerocoolAstra]

Hi i used:

ISO- 800
Shutter Speed- 1/10
Aperture - f2.7
white balance - n/a
Tripod - no
Manual/Aperture Priority/Shutter Priority - no i used IA cos i din have tripod and it was too blur when i set to ISO 100

does your camera have a manual exposure mode? Or only scene modes?
If only scene modes, using 'night landscape' (and being able to support your camera on something really steady) would probably have given you the best chance of getting a decent shot.

With all the gurus here I'm worried to give you advice in case it's wrong :angel:

But anyway in night cityscapes, with regards to the "holy trinity", you want:
1) a small aperture (large f-number) for deep depth of field
2) low ISO to minimize signal-noise in your image
3) correspondingly you need a long exposure, which has the added benefit of smoothening out reflections on water.

that's before you get to the other critical stuff (composition, perspective, etc)

 

[BananaDiver]

Hi i used:

ISO- 800
Shutter Speed- 1/10
Aperture - f2.7
white balance - n/a
Tripod - no
Manual/Aperture Priority/Shutter Priority - no i used IA cos i din have tripod and it was too blur when i set to ISO 100

does your camera have a manual exposure mode? Or only scene modes?
If only scene modes, using 'night landscape' (and being able to support your camera on something really steady) would probably have given you the best chance of getting a decent shot.

With all the gurus here I'm worried to give you advice in case it's wrong :angel:

But anyway in night cityscapes, with regards to the "holy trinity", you want:
1) a small aperture (large f-number) for deep depth of field
2) low ISO to minimize signal-noise in your image
3) correspondingly you need a long exposure, which has the added benefit of smoothening out reflections on water.

that's before you get to the other critical stuff (composition, perspective, etc)

Hi Hostile...

ZeroCoolAstra has explained what i wanna explained... i thank you for your patience in giving us some details... and i thank ZeroCoolAstra for explaining...

not sure how the IA function works... but i guess u are using panasonic compact camera?

cheers
banana

 

[r00ki3]

Thought I'd chip in since I understand the fustration (and probably the reaction thereafter) ZerocoolAstra feels. This is in no way directed to anyone on this forum and to those whom had participated in the numerous outings previously. Its a general observation from the past 10 years of experience in photography and to a certain extent, my training as an architect.

We encounter individuals from different background in our outings so its not surprising that someone from the group surprises all once in a while. This is normal since we dabble in a highly subjective field which is open to different interpretations and possibilities. Its fun but fustrating at the same time.

I used to argue till the cows come home on why we need a tripod, a good sturdy one at least for low light cityscapes / architectural photography and I can still do that if the occasion calls for it. I firmly believe in that because I know I'm right and I've been proven to be correct time and again! But is that of any use to someone who thinks differently or not receptive to what you have to say? No and don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen and when it doesn't happen, I don't see any reason to get upset.......... anymore. I let the results do the talking from then on.

I wrote an article on why a good sturdy tripod (not just any tripod) is necessary sometime ago and to those who think otherwise, here's my points of contention..........

a) You need a sturdy and constant platform to align your verticals and horizons, which are crucial in this genre of photography. As such, I use my tripod all the time, not only in low light conditions.

b) Ken Rockwell can use his f/1.4 lens or high ISOs for low light cityscapes for all I care. I ask if he can replicate the same amount of Depth of Field and image cleanliness which can be obtained when the camera is mounted on a tripod. Can he even level his camera without a tripod to begin with?

There, those are my views on why a sturdy tripod setup is needed and that's also my justification for spending $3k on a tripod setup. I need it. You might think that you don't need that Depth of Field and that's your perogative.

I no longer expect everyone I come across to subscribe to my school of thought but I can offer my advise to those who has an interest in learning. Rookie and Wildcat comes to mind. We organise outings to share experiences and knowledge. Our lives don't depend on it. So ZerocoolAstra, don't need to get worked up over it. Focus on the folks whom are receptive.

:thumbsup::thumbsup: It's very heartening and encouraging that I was mentioned by Kit, or I hope that's me hehe :embrass: . Wildcat is actually a close friend of mine too We really look up to all the seniors in here. I myself have several 'idols' I look up to..and I guess it's pretty obvious who they are. Kit,SoulFLY,night86mare,draken4130 are just to name a few. I try to learn as much from them though I am usually the silent type, because I'm a slow learner. I read-up the tips given by them and I try to apply them.

To all newcomers,browse more on the forum to get the correct tips and information from the right people.

In this instance a good sturdy tripod is a no-brainer for such photography..I'm now sulking with the tripod that I have..but I have to make do with it for now..my pocket is not deep and I hope I have justified it with the images I have taken so far

 

[Reportage]

:thumbsup::thumbsup: It's very heartening and encouraging that I was mentioned by Kit, or I hope that's me hehe :embrass: . Wildcat is actually a close friend of mine too We really look up to all the seniors in here. I myself have several 'idols' I look up to..and I guess it's pretty obvious who they are. Kit,SoulFLY,night86mare,draken4130 are just to name a few. I try to learn as much from them though I am usually the silent type, because I'm a slow learner. I read-up the tips given by them and I try to apply them.

To all newcomers,browse more on the forum to get the correct tips and information from the right people.

In this instance a good sturdy tripod is a no-brainer for such photography..I'm now sulking with the tripod that I have..but I have to make do with it for now..my pocket is not deep and I hope I have justified it with the images I have taken so far

A sturdy tripod is one thing...a sturdy surface is another. Anyway, good luck.

 

[r00ki3]

A sturdy tripod is one thing...a sturdy surface is another. Anyway, good luck.

You've said it my friend. Gd luck to you too